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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: GCDestruction]
    #1952176 - 09/25/03 06:55 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Ah, I see what you're saying now.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: GCDestruction]
    #1953375 - 09/26/03 03:00 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anything that is has to be its opposite to be

everything is nothing
nothing is everything




I sometimes think to myself, "red is green". This saves me a lot of time at traffic lights.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: Phluck]
    #1953503 - 09/26/03 05:16 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
That is a belief on your part, and not something that can be assumed. Was there a time when the earth was actually flat, because that's what everyone believed? If there was, how did we discover that it was round?




Yeah, the earth was flat, to every single person that "knew" it was flat. Anytime you assume something, known or unknown, you are making it true in your mind, whether or not other people do not find the same thing true.

Quote:


Well, yes. Even if all of reality is a dream, we have labelled certain components in our dream. This table is still a table even if it is a figment of my imagination, because if all of reality is imagined, then there are no tables at all other than tables no more real than this one. In other words, if "tables" don't really exist, then "table" is a word for this fictional thing I'm sitting at.




I wasn't meaning that all of reality is a dream, I just wasn't sure at the time to explain what it was that I was thinking.

Some time, a long time ago, there were humans starting to experience the space we are in. However they experienced things, it was then past down to others, at first through instincts. If these humans senses picked up colours as we see them, recognized shapes as we see them, those perceptions were then past onto everyone from them.

The reason there are different parts of the dream labeled and known as all is because we are all mostly starting with the same input analyzers. We receive signals that make one thing a certain colour, that this object is this tall or this heavy, that that object is so far away from this one..

.. is it the signals themselves that make what we perceive, or is it the way we perceive them? Perhaps there is no Earth, no ground, no sky, perhaps we are all floating in some ooze, and we are but little specks of dust in this ooze, and our brains developed to recognize it all the way that we do.

Hell, if we had a key to unlock the inner workings of our mind that we have no consciousness of, all the inner programming that we don't even understand anyways, we would be able to make our recognization of colours invert, we could perceive anything as anything.

What one person experiences in this world is the Truth, as their is no absolute anything, no way that we are suspossed to see things, no way that we are suspossed to believe, no way that we are suspossed to be.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1953594 - 09/26/03 06:23 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizoid said:
Quote:

anything that is has to be its opposite to be

everything is nothing
nothing is everything




I sometimes think to myself, "red is green". This saves me a lot of time at traffic lights.





If you stare at a red object long enough and then look at something white, You will see its complimentary color. Which is green in this case, reds opposite.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1954012 - 09/26/03 10:32 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

"Yeah, the earth was flat, to every single person that "knew" it was flat. Anytime you assume something, known or unknown, you are making it true in your mind, whether or not other people do not find the same thing true."

If it was flat, how did we find out that it was round?

"What one person experiences in this world is the Truth, as their is no absolute anything, no way that we are suspossed to see things, no way that we are suspossed to believe, no way that we are suspossed to be. "

Our conciousness is a model of the absolute reality. It is inaccurate in some ways, and if definately far from complete. There is no way our perception is "supposed" to work, but it is apparently basing its information on an absolute.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: Phluck]
    #1954018 - 09/26/03 10:37 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
If it was flat, how did we find out that it was round?




It doesn't matter if it was always round. What matters is what people chose to believe. To that person, it was flat.

Quote:


Our conciousness is a model of the absolute reality. It is inaccurate in some ways, and if definately far from complete. There is no way our perception is "supposed" to work, but it is apparently basing its information on an absolute.




I don't believe it is basing its information on anything absolute. There isn't any proof of anything... We are all left to experience whatever the hell we want to experience.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1954028 - 09/26/03 10:42 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

"I don't believe it is basing its information on anything absolute."

Why do our realities so similar, then?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: Phluck]
    #1954043 - 09/26/03 10:50 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
"I don't believe it is basing its information on anything absolute."

Why do our realities so similar, then?




Because we are all from the same line of some creature that happened to see things in a certain way. Our general way of analyzing and using input from our senses are all the same, and by no means does that make it absoulte.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1954328 - 09/26/03 12:37 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

"Our general way of analyzing and using input from our senses are all the same, and by no means does that make it absoulte."

No, but the fact that we're all receiving similiar messages does. If you put two different people on the beach, they will both see water, sand, and sky.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: Phluck]
    #1954405 - 09/26/03 12:58 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
No, but the fact that we're all receiving similiar messages does. If you put two different people on the beach, they will both see water, sand, and sky.





If they are on, say, mushrooms and are on a decent trip, it is a possibility that they won't see water, sand, and a sky.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1954433 - 09/26/03 01:08 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

No, but they will probably see that. Take any person there, and that's probably what they will see. Why does that have the highest probability?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: Phluck]
    #1954463 - 09/26/03 01:14 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
No, but they will probably see that. Take any person there, and that's probably what they will see. Why does that have the highest probability?




The chances of seeing it are better because we have naturally been programmed to see what we normally see through thousands of years of breeding.

A person tripping has a lot of the barriers removed and has access to functions usually never accessed.

It has the highest probability because we used to have to be overly concerned with our survival, and our mind had to be specially trained to survive. This, of course, was passed down and passed down and the other ways of thinking, the other ways we are capable of perceiving are no longer normally accessible because of this.

Normal perception = Not the absoultue or right perception.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1955079 - 09/26/03 04:27 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

"It has the highest probability because we used to have to be overly concerned with our survival, and our mind had to be specially trained to survive."

Wouldn't learning that not believing in our predators be simpler and more effective, instead of fabricating them in our minds, and then learning to avoid them?

"the other ways we are capable of perceiving"

How do you know that these "othere ways of perceiving" aren't just the meaningless results of our overactive imaginations?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: Phluck]
    #1955150 - 09/26/03 04:44 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Wouldn't learning that not believing in our predators be simpler and more effective, instead of fabricating them in our minds, and then learning to avoid them?




Maybe, but then we just might get eaten by animals that DO believe that we exist and can be eaten...

Quote:


How do you know that these "othere ways of perceiving" aren't just the meaningless results of our overactive imaginations?




How do we know that our main way of perceiving isn't just he meaningless results of our overactive imaginations?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1955551 - 09/26/03 07:13 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

"Maybe, but then we just might get eaten by animals that DO believe that we exist and can be eaten..."

And we can't cancel them out if they believe in us? So the beliefs of others affects our perception as well?

This would mean that our beliefs wouldn't be able to totally shape our environment.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: Phluck]
    #1956668 - 09/27/03 05:20 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Our beliefs are capable of shaping our environment, it would be possible to analyze our input signals into whatever the hell we want to make of them, agansit the more common way of analyzing them...

Heh, I am not saying it would be particuarily healthy or even important to do so, as there are some valid reasons that we see what we see, but there isn't anything that says that our perceptions have to be a certain way..

The animal's belief that we are a good meal doesn't cancel out our beliefs that there is no animal or whatever, but when our world suddenly ends because the animal ate us, we wouldn't recoginze it as an animal eating us, if we don't see it that way... and there is obviously a good reason why we originally started seeing in a way that leads to our survival.

It is a messy subject, it is more a strange paradox than anything.. things that hold true don't always hold true, and so on and so on... :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1958386 - 09/27/03 09:44 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

"Our beliefs are capable of shaping our environment, it would be possible to analyze our input signals into whatever the hell we want to make of them, agansit the more common way of analyzing them... "

We can certainly analyze these signals differently, but these signals are the absolute I've been talking about from the start.

"and there is obviously a good reason why we originally started seeing in a way that leads to our survival."

Because it allows us to interpret the signals as they actually are, and not as a warped or fantastical version, perhaps?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: Phluck]
    #1959072 - 09/28/03 04:40 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

First of all, I pretty much agree with you on this, just leading a discussion. :grin:

I don't think that the way that we intepret the input signals as they actually are, though. They might be the "absolute" for the senses that we use, but other beings could have different senses that pick up different signals and their reality would be completely different than the one we experience..

I mean, there are good and valid reasons that we ended up judging, interpreting, and experiencing the input signals as we do, but we could have ended up experiencing them in a completely different way and then that would be the "correct" way to see things...

I do believe that there is some sort of reality, some real world, but that we in no way see it for what it really is... Although evolution will bring us to understanding it fully...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1963834 - 09/29/03 07:18 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, I certainly agree that our minds warp reality. Experiences and interpretations will differ wildly, though often not in ways that can be put into words. Like being under the influence of a drug, particularly a psychedelic drug, unless you're experiencing hallucinations, it's difficult to pinpoint any specific differences in your experience, but you know they're extreme, and they're there.

I'm not sure that we ever will fully understand the universe, consider this:

Say we want to understand how a machine works, we study diagrams, read about it, or observe it, and in our minds we create a model. There is a model of the room I'm in right now, in my mind. I could probably find my way out of this room pretty easily blindfolded, because it is mapped out within my mind.

In order to fully understand the universe, I'd have to create a model within my mind, or perhaps, on a computer. Since these things must exist within the universe, as a very small fraction of its whole, it seems impossible that a model could be created. Perhaps this would be possible with quantum computing, but then you're not including other dimensions or whatever in the "complete understanding".

Excellent discussion though  :laugh:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Confusing creativity with perception. [Re: Phluck]
    #1964974 - 09/30/03 02:02 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Excellent discussion though  :laugh: 




Indeed. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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