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AtrocitY
Stranger

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
#7298332 - 08/15/07 05:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Let me ask this. This makes sense, no? If you are able to communicate with something, using any stimuli (not necessarily verbal), and it responded without any other stimulus, it is concsious.
-------------------- Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass It's about learning to dance in the rain
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
#7299462 - 08/15/07 11:07 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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fuck... i go away to a festival for a week and this is what happens to my thread?
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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
#7299470 - 08/15/07 11:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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when i asked this question, i didn't have an answer for it... i am just pondering. this has to do with an experience i had on lsd. my awareness seemed to have shifted into microcosmic realms of consciousness, and at one point it seemed as though i was an atom perceiving the atomic universe inside of my body.
but of course, being the skeptic i am, i do not hold any beliefs or attach myself to any thoughts on the matter. i just question, wonder, and experience 
next question:
can our awareness zoom in and out to, through micro/macrocosmic consciousness?
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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: shakercee]
#7299501 - 08/15/07 11:17 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shakercee said: Well, when the Big Crunch happens, when the Universe collapses back into itself, then may be awareness will fit back into an atom..
i like that answer... very creative.
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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: Quoiyaien]
#7299521 - 08/15/07 11:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quoiyaien said:
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onlynow said: well, can I fit into an atom?
If you can get the concept of an atom to fill your entire being than you have succeeded.
A mantra of sorts.
what i am talking about - the experience, transcends attachment to mind and body... experience has so much depth to it, there are so many places "we" or "I" can go. of course now i can only fit the experience into a concept. but that of course is meanlingless to me, unless i want to share interpretations of where i think i have been.
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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex


Registered: 04/24/07
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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
#7299525 - 08/15/07 11:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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First would require a quantification of awareness, which has yet to be proveably achieved. So, see, right at the outset the question is kind of cut off at the knees.
My best guess would be to say it takes X ammount of brain mass to yield the phenomenon of "Awareness", and that, relative to the actual size of it's particles, an atom is a lot less material than it is empty space, that said with out some kind of microtization or crazy nanotechnology, an atom cannot hold x ammount of brain mass, because brain mass is made of many atoms, many, many, many of which would have to exist in unison with one another to create at least a single cell of brain matter.
So... No.
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Edited by crumblebum (08/15/07 11:25 PM)
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: figgusfiddus]
#7299555 - 08/15/07 11:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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figgusfiddus said:
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"God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."
Magic is a rhombus whose nonsense is apparent and whose babble babble jibberish...
It looks like Pantheism and Euclid started with a fistfight and ended with some kind of projectile diarrhea contest.
That's a nonsense statement. Why are we so in love with pretty-sounding nonsense statements? Are we all really that base? Can't we even tell when we're making them?
we don't all intend on competing with eachother. that is childish! if you perceive us to be the contending type, maybe your perception is a reflection of a part of yourself you fail to see.
you should listen to oprah more 
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The Shamer This person can be hazardous to your health. The shamer may cut you off, put you down, reprimand you, or make fun of your or your ideas in front of others. He often ignores your boundaries and may try to convince you that his criticism is for you own good. The shamer is the kind of person who makes you question your own sanity before his.
The Discounter This is the person who discounts or challenges everything you say. Often, she has a strong need to be right and can find fault with any position. It can be exhausting to have a conversation with the discounter, so eventually you end up giving in and deciding to just listen.
http://www2.oprah.com/spiritself/lybl/control/ss_lybl_control_10_b.jhtml
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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: crumblebum]
#7299567 - 08/15/07 11:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
crumblebum said: it takes X ammount of brain mass to yield the phenomenon of "Awareness"
plz explain, i think i understand but i may not.
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
#7299575 - 08/15/07 11:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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i read somewhere that our nervous system can become aware of itself... what does this mean?
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In the isolation from any external light the third eye (pineal gland) overflows with certain neurotransmitters that awaken the higher brain, the ability to imprint the brain. The imagination begins to externalise, and even when you open your eyes you walk within your imagination. It projects outwards and becomes a vivid light experience.
The brain becomes aware in its nervous system of itself. The nervous system starts to become aware of what it is doing, which makes it having the ability to program itself.
In the first 3 days one has sleep therapy, but once the pineal gland overflows the somatic neuro transmitters, you are having a wide open brain, like it was in the womb. In this state one can go to the metaprograms and establish a new electrical pathway. Not just a magnetic shift (which most adult metaprograming is based on), but engage an electrical shift in the core brain.
Therefore, one has an adjusted view of how one filters reality and sees the interactivity by which one sees reality. The brain creates a hologram not the external world. When one comes out of the DR, one sees the light particles coming in through the eyes, and suddenly you become aware how everything you are seeing out there is actually created in your own head.
http://www.akasha.de/~aton/DR.html
the above is based on the Dark Room experience. i don't know if it has anything to do with my original topic but i felt the want to bring it up for all you curious people and deniers of the ultimate unicorn reality.
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex


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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
#7299590 - 08/15/07 11:41 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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onlynow said:
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crumblebum said: it takes X ammount of brain mass to yield the phenomenon of "Awareness"
plz explain, i think i understand but i may not.
Humans are aware. Dolphins and monkeys are probably aware. Mice, rats, and small reptiles are probably not aware. Insects are really, really probably not aware. Plants are definaly not aware. And the factor that increases with this scale is brain mass.
Humans can retain awareness with pretty much every organ removed except the brain. Guillotined heads can respond to questions with blinks up to 10 seconds after the blade has fallen.
This says, to me at least, that awareness is a phenomenon generated by brain material.
I say "X ammount" partially because I can't remember the average weight of a human brain and I can't definately state what species is the absolute low end of awareness and then weigh it's brain, but mostly because even the tiniest ammount of what you could call bran mass, a single cell, is too large to fit into an atom.
So my first conclusion is that brains cause awareness, and my second conclusion is that you could no more fit a working brain inside an atom than you could fit a carton of cigarettes inside an empty pack.
That said, if you could build an artificial nanobrain or shrink an organic one down far enough, then... sure.
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: crumblebum]
#7299608 - 08/15/07 11:49 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
crumblebum said:
Quote:
onlynow said:
Quote:
crumblebum said: it takes X ammount of brain mass to yield the phenomenon of "Awareness"
plz explain, i think i understand but i may not.
Humans are aware. Dolphins and monkeys are probably aware. Mice, rats, and small reptiles are probably not aware. Insects are really, really probably not aware. Plants are definaly not aware. And the factor that increases with this scale is brain mass.
if mice, rats, reptiles and insects are not aware, then what are they? an automatic mechanical process? if they are not aware then how can they move their bodies? i think when i kill an ant then it is no longer aware.
lol, this is great
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex


Registered: 04/24/07
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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
#7299617 - 08/15/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
onlynow said: i read somewhere that our nervous system can become aware of itself... what does this mean?
Quote:
In the isolation from any external light the third eye (pineal gland) overflows with certain neurotransmitters that awaken the higher brain, the ability to imprint the brain. The imagination begins to externalise, and even when you open your eyes you walk within your imagination. It projects outwards and becomes a vivid light experience.
The brain becomes aware in its nervous system of itself. The nervous system starts to become aware of what it is doing, which makes it having the ability to program itself.
In the first 3 days one has sleep therapy, but once the pineal gland overflows the somatic neuro transmitters, you are having a wide open brain, like it was in the womb. In this state one can go to the metaprograms and establish a new electrical pathway. Not just a magnetic shift (which most adult metaprograming is based on), but engage an electrical shift in the core brain.
Therefore, one has an adjusted view of how one filters reality and sees the interactivity by which one sees reality. The brain creates a hologram not the external world. When one comes out of the DR, one sees the light particles coming in through the eyes, and suddenly you become aware how everything you are seeing out there is actually created in your own head.
http://www.akasha.de/~aton/DR.html
the above is based on the Dark Room experience. i don't know if it has anything to do with my original topic but i felt the want to bring it up for all you curious people and deniers of the ultimate unicorn reality.
I'm sorry, I really do hate to take this tone (No. I don't. I love it. I'm lying), but... lets just say that I could take that article, pasturize it, leech it, and grow a fine crop of mushrooms off it.
There's about 8 different kinds of pseudoscience going on, the least of which is talk of the pineal gland. It's an itty bitty gland in the middle of the brain that controls the flow of metatonin.
So basically, part of what's being said in 2 paragraphs is this far more accurate and less verbose sentence: "If you sit in dark for a while, you'll get sleepy."
The rest of it says this: "Longer, and you'll get loopy."
If you can find absolute darkness, like, really, really, no light, you'll have mild hallucinations after a while. Your eyes, and the part of the brain that controls them, will, in the total absence of anything to see, start making things up for you to see.
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex


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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
#7299651 - 08/16/07 12:01 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
onlynow said:
Quote:
crumblebum said:
Quote:
onlynow said:
Quote:
crumblebum said: it takes X ammount of brain mass to yield the phenomenon of "Awareness"
plz explain, i think i understand but i may not.
Humans are aware. Dolphins and monkeys are probably aware. Mice, rats, and small reptiles are probably not aware. Insects are really, really probably not aware. Plants are definaly not aware. And the factor that increases with this scale is brain mass.
if mice, rats, reptiles and insects are not aware, then what are they? an automatic mechanical process? if they are not aware then how can they move their bodies? i think when i kill an ant then it is no longer aware.
lol, this is great
See, this is a whole, unfortunate can of worms that touches on free will and determinism, and I've argued that way, way, way too much here.
My simplest answer is that, Yes, the mouse is basically a machine.
But so are you and I. We're more complicated machines, and one of the elements of that complexity is awareness.
Mice are a bad example because they learn and are cute. But ants? and even smaller things, single celled organisms? The line between whats alive and what's just moving becomes blurry.
At a certain level, we're all just reacting to stimulus.
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
#7301331 - 08/16/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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sorry for the dely, internet crashed...
you are assuming you know the greatness of the experience of the dark room, you cannot understand it if you have not experienced it. it is foolish to think you can throw it off as a definition and call it a "loopy" experience. you can read about it here.
i think the complexities lie in the conditioned mind... when humans first roamed this earth they worked their way up a process of survival and evolution of society and communication. compared to insects and anamals we have more and expanded mental/emotional characteristics and and senses. but just because we are more evolved more than insects and anamals does not mean that we are aware and they are not. sure we have a more expanded awareness but theirs is just on a more microcosmic level with less features. mind is not awareness.
ants are aware that they need to feed the queen. the mind may perceive this as a mechanical process because our mind fails to understand that level of conscious awareness.
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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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