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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Does Nothingness Have Awareness?
    #4175582 - 05/14/05 07:14 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Nope. This is not a joke nor a junk thread. I am actually going somewhere deep on this if people stay with me.

Nothingness may be ineffable and have limited qualities, however; logically no-thing does precede every-thing, as it is the "mother" of everything, and "supports" [a la` the ground underneath us] the sphere-of-every-thing, with its "spacious capability". I contend that therefore; it has some degree of awareness.

A response such as "Hey, it does not exist," says nothing and just layers one assumption upon another.




Inspired by The Swam

Sidefactoid: In the atomic level of objects, 99% of space is empty, and so with our bodies. Our bodies are 99% space, and so with our Universe. Our Universe is 99% space....
"Every natural fact is symbolic of a spiritual fact." - Unknown




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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4175618 - 05/14/05 07:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, and some call it God.. :P (?)
ha ha I just made a funny! (internally, external to you..)
gotta love those crazy Scandinavians ... [laughter]
:wink:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: Gomp]
    #4175651 - 05/14/05 07:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"Atoms, are not things..." ~Got that from somewhere...


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: Gomp]
    #4175674 - 05/14/05 07:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

that's an interesting idea. so where is it you are going with this?

as for logically no-thing precedes every-thing, what do you mean? i don't quite follow that part


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4175695 - 05/14/05 07:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

gotta love those crazy Scandinavians ... [laughter]

Gomp, I'm Finnish, Swedish, and Polish. Need I say more? :wink: :heart:

Crunchy toast:
An example of what I am alluding to can be attributed to Silence.

Silence is the "Ground" of which all sound, noise and music can exist.


Is there really any seperation between Silence and Awareness?


Where I am leading to, is towards our fundamental aspects of That, which we truly Are.



Btw, do you come with butter, jam or something else or nothing at all?


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4175817 - 05/14/05 08:46 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

hehe, well i suppose the right answer would be nothing at all!

now this is probably just a technical question:
would non-awareness therefore be the "ground" of which awareness can exist?
"all things come from being/being comes from non-being" i think it goes

what are some of the fundamental aspects of that which we truly are, that you're trying to unfold with this line of thought?


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: Gomp]
    #4175828 - 05/14/05 08:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Yes, and some call it God.. :P (?)
ha ha I just made a funny! (internally, external to you..)
gotta love those crazy Scandinavians ... [laughter]
:wink:




If nothing we love them because of you  :thumbup:  :heart:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4176559 - 05/15/05 12:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Nothing can't posses anything because it doesn't exist. A lack of something-ness does not imply nothingness. If there is awareness there is something. If there is no awareness then you have absolute nothingness, which I don't think can really exist any more than solid objects can exist in an absolute way.

There is a mathematical system known as the Empty Set which is often used to describe consciousness. If you have nothing you start with a 0. Consciousness brings a second set by simply being conscious of the nothingness and this multiplies as it becomes conscious of being conscious of being conscious, etc. Thus by introducing awareness the Nothing becomes something.

Perhaps what you are alluding to is that consciousness is formless and because it lacks form, identity or possesion that it is Nothing. I don't call that Nothing, I just call that Mind.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Edited by Divided_Sky (05/15/05 12:46 AM)


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4176799 - 05/15/05 02:20 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

(EDIT:  I meant to respond to the top post.)

Does nothingness have awareness?

:what:  :thumbdown:

:whack:

What a misguided question.  No wonder you are so confused if you think questions like this have any import on anything. 

You should stop trying to use human language to understand these sorts of things.  Just because our language allows questions to be asked does not make those questions meaningful or important.  Look, the contradictions you see when you anticipate answers to this question are not contradictions in the way the world actually is, they are just limitations on the way we use language to describe the world.  Likewise, that some interesting problems come up when you use that same language to ask questions is more a feature of the language and grammer you are using, rather then an indication you have stumbled upon a question that is actually intersting.

In this particular case, the question only seems interesting because the word 'have' could mean any of about 100 different things, and which one you mean in the question isn't specified.  Because, in our language, the word 'have' does duty for all sorts of words, like possesses, manifests, owns, etc, this question seems interesting.  But, when you disambiguate 'have' like they would in another language, you are left with no interesting questions.

If you really want to understand these sorts of things, you must practice meditation and observe things without using your flawed language to filter anything you are seeing.  Only once you do this will you be able to understand why considering this sort of question does one no good. 

If you are thinking about this sort of question, you need to work on letting go of academic exercising and letting go of the english language as a filter on how you perceive the world.  Thinking about a question like this and expecting to make progress is like looking for a green marble in a pile of red marbles by using only your ears.  You just aren't using the right tools to make progress, so progress is impossible.


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"I am eternally free"


Edited by tomk (05/15/05 02:23 AM)


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Offlineshanti
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: Gomp]
    #4177098 - 05/15/05 04:16 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

good question.

no-thing precedes everything? in my humble and plastic opinion, only everything really is. Therefore, implying that there is only awareness. Due to everythings mirror of nothingness. perhaps I'm missing the point but what are we really geting at?


Edited by shanti (05/15/05 04:29 AM)


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: tomk]
    #4177143 - 05/15/05 04:46 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Tomk, that was a good post.
I already knew about the danger of confusing the map for the territory, of idolatry, getting stuck on the level of words, all of which are merely signposts that point towards the actual reality. The symbols do not equate the reality.
I understand that we have to be careful with the encumbrance of language, as it can give the illusion of the subject or object being seperate, and so on..

The point I am touching upon in this post is no new ideal or thought, I've read it in several, completely different S&P books [Huxley's Perennial Philosophy, Krishnamurti's The Ending of Time, Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now, etc]. The basic point of it all is that consciousness IS the absolute emptiness; the no-thingness. And because it is "nothing", it is like a "divine mirror of reality; of every-thing." That's the epitome of that school of thought.
Yes, this is only one of oceans upon oceans of speculations... but one I am particularly fond of, so I like to share it.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4177163 - 05/15/05 05:03 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know if the thought i have is a valid one. But i get the feeling that this "nothing" would have so much awareness that it ceases to be meaningfull (which is almost a contradiction in terms).


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: David_Scape]
    #4178662 - 05/15/05 04:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Perhaps nothingness could be said to have awareness because within nothingness exists the potential for everything. If it is nothingness, it has the potential of everything, and the potential of everything would instantly make it aware of everything and nothing....

Its always been a profoundly interesting contemplation, this... Its to the point where the meaning simply will not be encapsulated into words... :grin:

*floats away into inexpressibilities* :mushroom2:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4178713 - 05/15/05 04:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

if nothing have awareness, then awareness, is what nothing got? :P


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: Gomp]
    #4178785 - 05/15/05 05:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

What if the nothing is just raw energy, unmanifest potential, unaware  in and of itself but our being within and of it, we become aware of it as we create, manifest and realize with it?

If it had awareness of itself, it would be its own entity, maybe that's what those who believe in a God is, dark in its unawareness of itself and light in its awareness of itself through us.

Just rambling thoughts on nothing........................ :wink: :tongue:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (05/15/05 05:07 PM)


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OfflineDruginduced
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4178815 - 05/15/05 05:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I, personally, have trouble believing that rocks, let alone plant matter has awareness. Nothingness having awareness is so far beyond my current understanding that at this point i could never agree with the statement made in your threads topic. Prove to me that rocks and plant life have awareness first.


Edited by RydawgSupreme (05/15/05 05:16 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4178816 - 05/15/05 05:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
If it had awareness of itself, it would be its own entity




Necessarily? :grin:

If nothing was the potential for everything, I think that it would be every entity, every form, every possible way for time and space to manifest and unfold, every universe... nothing and everything existing as one and the same... awareness of awareness....

:nut: :smirk: :mushroom2:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: Druginduced]
    #4178867 - 05/15/05 05:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

This topic is a mind fuck....thats what makes it fun to explore.

Crystals store information........silicon crystals are being used in computers now for that purpose. I equate a crystal to a type of rock.

Here is the next question............is the ability to "store" information the same as something being "aware" of the information it stores?

Like with the crystal computer technology........the information needs a vehicle for translating, using and realising it. Does it know what it is as a storehouse that is virtually nothing until something makes it something?

This face fits this topic :nut:

We can explore ideas here without having to adopt beleifs or come to conclusions.

Great for mental exercising and generating visuals.:thumbup:


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InvisibleStarchild
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4178879 - 05/15/05 05:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I recently read an amazing book called "Exploring Consciousness" by Rita Carter. One of the chapters had some relevant information to this discussion. Apparently, our brains are incapable of perceiving space without assigning boundaries to it. That is why the concept of the "base" of existence, or the universe, or life, or whatever you want ("nothingness", as it is being referred to here), is always a hot topic. I myself frequently wondered what would be left if the universe was suddenly gone. The answer is that we don't know and won't know for a LONG time, if ever, because our brains probably can't even comprehend the possibilities.

Personally, I always used to think that the "nothing" would be completely white for some reason. I'm not sure why, I just thought the idea of the nothingness being white was really cool. It does make you wonder though if our universe is all there is in this life. It's entirely possible that there are other universes right next to ours or something, or in other dimensions or planes of existence. Or that our universe is contained inside of something bigger, which itself is contained in a super-universe or whatever. I mean, seriously, who knows..... :nut:

Does nothingness have awareness? Personally I don't think space has awareness, so I'm not sure why nothingness would. It's really just an abstract concept. Why would there ever be just "nothing"? As long as there is something inside of nothing, it ceases to be nothing, right? And if there's nothing in the nothing, well...then we have ourselves a case of the old "if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound?" What a topic...


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Be the change that you want to see in the world.

Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.

-Mahatma Gandhi


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Does Nothingness Have Awareness? [Re: Starchild]
    #4178902 - 05/15/05 05:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Cooooool. Thats how I was seeing it in my first reply....the part yhat author said about having to have space with boundaries assigned for awareness to take place.

Doesn't mean it's how it is but it makes sense in a comprehensive way.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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