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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7268598 -

fair enough

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
    #7284113 -

Without a convenient tileling over of words
Awareness is a maniac.
I doubt an atom would suffice.
Awareness is thinking mmmmkay... Milky Way.
Self is singing something about strings.
Awareness is a geyser, guys.
It wishes to be let free on the raging electron sea. See??
Charge!!
Now who can flip their polarity and push and pull on eternity??
Beats.
Harmony.
Pitch.
Its all in between the bitch.


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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
    #7285594 -

ofcourse!

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: takk]
    #7285761 -

Why don't you ask an atom? I don't see any other way..


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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass
It's about learning to dance in the rain

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: AtrocitY]
    #7285822 -

well you can interact with an atom can't you...? like splitting it and such!

just because you can't hold a conversation with something doesnt mean it doesnt have a 'consciousness'

when you rip all the leaves off a plant, does it not die? Anything that responds to us has what qualifies as 'consciousness', but surely of a more primitive form.

We on this planet obviously have the most evolved form of consciousness, I mean look at all of our terraforming and general technological advances! And when we look at our behaviors we think it's just a company building another skyscraper or another mobile telephone tower... We're using this planet, much like mould can use a slice of bread

we just haven't figured out sufficient ways of communicating with the other forms of consciousness around us

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
    #7286054 -

Atoms interact with each other. Any interaction infers SOME kind of awareness. The greater the interaction, the greater the emergent awareness, at least in my opinion.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
    #7287184 -

onlynow said:
well, can I fit into an atom?


No.

Next?

Edit: Okay, sorry, my purpose here shouldn't be humor (if you can call it that). Look at it this way: You've asked whether the complexity of your being can be contained within a symbolic scientific figure describing a particle. That is why the answer is no. I'm sorry I couldn't make it more interesting. :grin: If you want a metaphysico-theologico-cosmolonigological answer to your question, I'm sure you can find one in the posts above mine.


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Edited by figgusfiddus (08/12/07 10:19 AM)

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: psyka]
    #7287190 -

psyka said:
Any interaction infers SOME kind of awareness.


Why?

Sorry, that sounds aesthetically pleasant, but it's begging to be probed. I don't see how someone can justify this except rhetorically, by pointing out that someone can infer anything from anything.


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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7287307 -

It really depends on what your definition of awareness is. Essentially, you are just a vat of chemical reactions - basically, a complex series of causal interactions. The "self" is not found in any single interaction, it is the sum of them... an interaction emergent illusion.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

Edited by psyka (08/12/07 11:24 AM)

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: psyka]
    #7287311 -

How can one have the notion of something unmeasurable fitting in something measurable? :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
    #7287344 -

No and Yes...in a mystical sense. The infinitely large and the infinitely small are both meaningless expressions. Large and small are expressions of relative spacial 'size,' and infinity is always only infinity. Now the word infinity does not only refer to a mathematical idea. The Infinite also means The Absolute or Absolute Reality. This sense of infinite is identical to the word eternal, yet the mind tends to distort the meaning if infinite to carry an endless spatial meaning, and eternal carries the sense of endless time. These are both as wrong as the qualifiers 'large' and 'small.' No word qualifies the infinite or the eternal. They represent the Unqualified, the Unconditioned, The Absolute.

If one realizes that Being (The Absolute) is the Ocean whence 'we' as little 'waves' emerge from, then our true nature, IS Being and hence Infinite. Your question must be reworked because your "I" cannot be the relative 'I' of your mind-body, but the Infinite 'I' of Pure Being. No to the relative identity, Yes to the Infinite identity.

"God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
    #7287391 -

Well, when the Big Crunch happens, when the Universe collapses back into itself, then may be awareness will fit back into an atom..:grin:


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Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: psyka]
    #7287752 -

psyka said:
It really depends on what your definition of awareness is. Essentially, you are just a vat of chemical reactions - basically, a complex series of causal interactions. The "self" is not found in any single interaction, it is the sum of them... an interaction emergent illusion.


The sensation of self is a feedback loop.

Input (recognition of self) -> processing system ->output (through body, thus affecting recognition of self) starting the process over again. There's a pretty good material basis for consciousness, it's just pretty hard to grasp until you're used to thinking in that pattern.

A basic particle that is simply pulled around is in no way self-aware and in no way decides anything. It doesn't have thoughts, it has governing principles--the inverse square law, and a handful of others, some known and unknown to we humans.

Animism is fun and all, but it's not exactly justifiable in any rational way.


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Edited by figgusfiddus (08/12/07 02:26 PM)

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7287775 -

Quote:
"God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."


Magic is a rhombus whose nonsense is apparent and whose babble babble jibberish...

It looks like Pantheism and Euclid started with a fistfight and ended with some kind of projectile diarrhea contest.

That's a nonsense statement. Why are we so in love with pretty-sounding nonsense statements? Are we all really that base? Can't we even tell when we're making them?


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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7288015 -

Why do you hate unicorns and rainbows?


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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7288066 -

As long as he's OK with the tooth fairy every thing's fine :hehehe:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: onlynow]
    #7288208 -

onlynow said:
well, can I fit into an atom?


If you can get the concept of an atom to fill your entire being than you have succeeded. 

A mantra of sorts.

:grin:

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7288719 -

figgusfiddus said:
The sensation of self is a feedback loop.


:thumbup:

figgusfiddus said:
A basic particle that is simply pulled around is in no way self-aware and in no way decides anything. It doesn't have thoughts, it has governing principles--the inverse square law, and a handful of others, some known and unknown to we humans.

Animism is fun and all, but it's not exactly justifiable in any rational way.


A basic particle, as you're describing it, seems to be you using a placeholder for 'smallest thing we as humans are aware exists'. Ofcourse it doesn't have thoughts, although it still operates on positive and negative, life and death principles. In part I think this is why the big bang theory exists - plants go through life and death, but their matter still is made up of these tiny little basic particles, and they too need to live and die, inhale and exhale. So yes, the smallest form of... whateverness would indeed be living pretty closely parallel to the universe's timeline of life and death which indeed means it is a stretch to call it... 'aware' on any level that we can interact or communicate with lol

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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: takk]
    #7290202 -

Well, right, awareness is largely a practical matter, one of communication or at least observation. We consider things aware when we can perceive that they operate on the same scale of complexity that we do, or a greater one. I think this is why people mistakenly confuse vastness with awareness--a system (e.g. celestial movements) may in fact be quite predictable, but before we know the principles that allow us to predict it, we imagine it's the plaything of a deity, who makes it work in a certain way "just because".

Things which are clearly governed by principles that are more simple than our own--e.g. an apple falling from a tree, or a bacterium dividing because it's reached critical mass--we consider to be non-aware. It's subjective, but that doesn't make it a non-principle, it doesn't mean that atoms are really thinking their shit through when they exchange electrons. The term "thinking" implies some kind of complex, non-predictable process, involving unseen events and relationships. Atoms may do things we don't always understand, but since these things are generally reproducible we don't really perceive these things to be conscious behavior.


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Re: Can awareness fit into an atom? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7290323 -

true dawgy :headbang:

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