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Monotub uncased pinning strategy
    #7146423 -

WBS spawned to horse manure monotub. No casing with (I don't know if this is the correct terminology without a casing) overlay. Pinning initiation attempted using lower temperatures, increased FAE, and occasional exposure to light for a couple days. What would be the best way to remedy this situation? Would it be recommended to keep trying to initiate pinning, or perhaps disturb the surface mycelium and add a casing layer?

Thank you.

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: babybuff]
    #7146541 -

How much lower is the temperature? Are you sure it is overlay? If it is overlay, you can sometimes scrape the dead layer at the top with a fork to initiate pinning, however, I think that only works for casings. Pics would help as well. Also how long has it been since you have spawned it, patience is a must.


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http://photographybyjonathonmarin.com/

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: euphoricpoison]
    #7146578 -

The temperature is 8 degrees F lower - from 76 to 68. I am not sure that it is overlay, however, the mycelium is pretty much covering the entire surface and is even creeping up the sides of the tub. It was spawned about 10 days ago.
I suppose that waiting a little longer is the best course of action? I wish that a casing layer had been applied before pinning initiation was attempted...
Thank you.

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: babybuff]
    #7146591 -

Yeah it sounds like overlay. Maybe you could scrape the surface with a fork, and try to patch, I'm really not sure. I'm sure someone will chime in with more help/info.


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http://photographybyjonathonmarin.com/

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: euphoricpoison]
    #7147968 -

You really should have cased it in a mono tub. its already hard enough to keep the humidity up in them. Next time Add the half inch after the month of work ya already did thats no thin to do.


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Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS
http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary
I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt                         
Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt
Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet
Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat,

:onfire:DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!:onfire:

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: MYSTIQUE]
    #7148059 -

It might not be hopeless. Keep humidity up, and FAE going, and it should fruit. But a casing layer sure would have helped. May not be too late to add one, if nothing else works.


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Roger Rabbit said: Growing mushrooms is part art, and part science, but it's not magic.

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: Dr_T]
    #7148287 -

See i dont get the whole add a casing layer to a mono tub i will explain why.

casing layer is there to provide a micro climate for primordia by making the mycelium moist and keeping it that way.

in a mono tub you have a lid and there is 100 % constant humidity and not really that much air exchange so the mycelium is always moist.So basically the mono tub is working as a microclimate within it self if that makes sense.


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7148315 -

Thats what Ive thought too. I thought that was one purpose of a monotub. So you could just fruit from a bulk sub.

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7148334 -

Yeah, I'm not too sure how I feel about casing a monotub. I've tried it both ways but seem to only get trich on my cased ones. For the difference in yield i've been getting, i'm leaning towards leaving them uncased from now on. The difference in yield to me seems less important, so long as I can keep my tubs contam free.

Peace

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7148404 -

xaxphaanes said:
See i dont get the whole add a casing layer to a mono tub i will explain why.

casing layer is there to provide a micro climate for primordia by making the mycelium moist and keeping it that way.

in a mono tub you have a lid and there is 100 % constant humidity and not really that much air exchange so the mycelium is always moist.So basically the mono tub is working as a microclimate within it self if that makes sense.


It does make sense. I guess I'll try it out, see what I think, thanks for the idea.

Growing without a casing layer just seems too... I don't know. Easy. You just spread out a layer of WBS, and grow mushrooms? Dang, where's the fun of that? :laugh: Casing is the most confusing and difficult part of the whole process!


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Roger Rabbit said: Growing mushrooms is part art, and part science, but it's not magic.

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: Dr_T]
    #7148418 -

Well, its not just the wbs.... its the spawn in addition to a bulk sub such as straw or manure.

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7148609 -

xaxphaanes said:
See i dont get the whole add a casing layer to a mono tub i will explain why.

casing layer is there to provide a micro climate for primordia by making the mycelium moist and keeping it that way.

in a mono tub you have a lid and there is 100 % constant humidity and not really that much air exchange so the mycelium is always moist.So basically the mono tub is working as a micro climate within it self if that makes sense.


Yes but wouldn't this be true with any FC??? Isn't that the idea of a Fruiting chamber??

Here was Agar's point of view on this argument.


agar said:
Just use 50/50 Vermiculite & Perlite, with a little coir thrown in.
No pH adjustment required.
You will get better results, more flushes & harvest weight.
By adding a casing cover.

If you doubt that.
Try one with & one without.
Side by side, in the same conditions.


Also almost all the old hands agree that in PERFECT, absolute PERFECT conditions a casing layer has little added benefit. For new growers it is kind of a handy cap. It helps you get better results. A casing has many benefits to it, if you are learning this process.

It will help you get more pins, and more flushes. I say stick with a casing layer. You will be happier in the end with your flushes.


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ToiletDuk said:
For the record, I would show you my butthole but you would fall down and worship it as a God and you would give up everything to roam the land converting the heathens by fire and sword. Millions would die. No, no the cost is too great. I cannot.


Edited by TrippinTeddy (07/08/07 09:55 PM)

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: TrippinTeddy]
    #7148689 -

Quote:
Yes but wouldn't this be true with any FC??? Isn't that the idea of a Fruiting chamber??
Quote:
even in a fc evaporation from the casing is drying it out which you have to mist to get the casing back up to correct moisture so you don't dry it out and lose moisture since that would cause a lack of yield/Pinset development.the casing layer protects the mycelium from losing moisture so pins can form and grow.

But with a mono tub that moisture doesn't really go anywhere. alittle gets through the polyfill for Fae but not really that much.i dunno i have experimented with it a little and cant tell a big difference between a cased mono tub and a not cased mono tub.


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure

Edited by xaxphaanes (07/08/07 10:21 PM)

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: babybuff]
    #7148765 -

Sorry miss read that.

I see where you are coming from though and I do understand your points and they are valid.

In my experience though, I've almost always produced better flushes with a casing layer in a mono tub. Every time I've gone no casing, I get MONSTER mushies, but sadly very few, and bad pinsets.

Thats just my own experience like I've said. I will always be a caser. If you are new to growing though and you fear the casing layer, then yes you can get results with out it in a mono tub. I just feel that you get better results with one.

Like I said this is just my OPINION, only thing I have to go on is my own experience. I've only grown with out a casing layer three times, and each time, few mushrooms, but nice and large non the less.


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ToiletDuk said:
For the record, I would show you my butthole but you would fall down and worship it as a God and you would give up everything to roam the land converting the heathens by fire and sword. Millions would die. No, no the cost is too great. I cannot.


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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: TrippinTeddy]
    #7148840 -

I have never done it side by side in a mono tub but I have grown cased vs uncased side by side in a greenhouse



The ones on the top shelf are uncased,do not make the mistake of thinking they look better,those on the bottom are 2nd of 3rd flush and the uncased ones took so long to pin that I was beginning to think they were never going to pin at all,misting and wax paper changes daily and they took at least twice as long to fruit as the cased ones... I will always use a casing layer

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: babybuff]
    #7148855 -

Hey thats pretty fucking cool how you just have them on some lids.

Did you just wait for that sucker to colonize in a pan then dump it out on the lid of some tubs???

Nice grows


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ToiletDuk said:
For the record, I would show you my butthole but you would fall down and worship it as a God and you would give up everything to roam the land converting the heathens by fire and sword. Millions would die. No, no the cost is too great. I cannot.


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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: TrippinTeddy]
    #7148939 -

Yea,thats pretty much exactly what I did if I remember correctly,I wanted to put them on verm and perlite on Hippiechick's recomendation but I had just used all the rest of my perlite in the tray at the bottom of the greenhouse and although I still have half of the verm I ever bought I couldn't find it at the time and I knew better than to try and look for a place to buy more so I just left them on their lids sitting in like maybe a quarter inch of water and covered in wax paper after misting for like a month till the pins finally showed up..... I am not kidding,if you want to wait that long for something grow sclerotia under the bed ....at least you don't have to attend to it 4 times a day like uncased substrate in a greenhouse

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Re: Monotub uncased pinning strategy [Re: Blutjager]
    #7159732 -

The great casing debate continues.

It seems to me that, while the casing layer would certainly keep humidity up, provide a microclimate, etc., you're also basically cutting the mycelium off from air. If the mycelium doesn't colonize the casing layer, which has happened to me, boom, contams, and you're done. As Lost Nebula said above "The difference in yield to me seems less important, so long as I can keep my tubs contam free."

But Blut, your post makes me think twice about all of this. Any ideas why it didn't pin without the casing layer?

And what about invitro? There's certainly no casing layers in those, but we've all seen some pretty nice flushes; these are also probably the least contaminant prone types of grows.

I just think that telling newbies who don't even understand the PF Tek to do what probably garners the most questions of any of the growing techniques and is therefore most likely one of the most difficult parts of the process is dangerous. Maybe there should be a disclaimer, e.g.: "You increase the chances of getting contaminants but will increase your yields."

Hopefully soon, I'll be able to add some experimental facts to this argument...we'll see though. Last time I counted my chickens before they hatched, and I was eating vegetables for dinner.

-JaH

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