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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Peroxide removes white film on pins * 1
    #25031706 - 03/01/18 03:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I've seen some posts concerning a WHITE LOOKING FILM COATING CUBENSIS PINS that halts their growth. Last year I lost about 90% of my cube product to this:



Since lately I do only 1 cube grow a year the loss has been kinda annoying.
I don't know if the coating is from a fungal or bacterial contam. or just overly zealous mycelia. I lean toward thinking it is fungal (maybe just mycelia) mainly for the simple reason that it looks like mycelia.
I read on Shroomery threads that this happens because the environment is "too damp", "not enough convection" or "poor air movement". So I'd fan them more, take them out of the fruiting chamber for a while. At best that only helped, and at the expense of overly drying the grow, also since i'm doing the grow the same way I did before I had the problem I think there is something else going on.

This year I had the same problem so I decided to try some experiments. First I tried spraying the pins with a solution of CINNAMON (cinnamon has anti fungal properties). Since cinnamon has a very low aq. solubility I sprayed it with a suspension of cinnamon instead. It DID NOTHING.

TRIAL WITH H2O2-
After testing a small # of pins I sprayed the whole grow liberally with 3% PEROXIDE (the stuff you get at the drug store).
I did not wash it off after it stopped fizzing, just left it there. After a couple hours the PINS WERE NICE & CLEAN. The pins returned to growing with no sign of damage.
Here's a pic of a few pins before and after H2O2 treatment:

 

OTHER OBSERVATIONS-
Peroxide also removed the fuzziness that's often see at the base of the stipe.

When there is only a little bit of the white coating, ie. just some specks of it, the pins are ok and can mature on their own without treatment.

I have grown cubensis side by side with other genera and even just other Psilocybe species and i've only seen the white coating on cubensis.

CONCLUDE:
From what I've seen this "white film on pins" is not a common problem, in fact I never used to get it, but its not rare either. 
This treatment should be considered by others who have this problem and may be generally relevant to anyone who wants to remove the "fuzzy white socks" at the base of their stipes.

IM NOT ADVOCATING SPRAYING A WHOLE GROW WORTH OF PINS WITH PEROXIDE UNTIL AFTER TRYING OUT THE PEROXIDE TREATMENT ON A SECTION OR CORNER OF PINS.


Edited by mary fairchild (03/03/18 11:10 AM)


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25031718 - 03/01/18 03:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

if you only do 1 grow per year, how can you rationalize your theory?
id never spray peroxide on anything just because h202 is pointless to keep around in general.
imo fanning is a fools errand and serves no purpose either...

Quote:

Last year I lost about 90% of my cube product to this




:thefuckisthis:

i dont get it:shrug:


Edited by mushboy (03/01/18 03:14 PM)


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mushboy]
    #25031743 - 03/01/18 03:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Looks like universal veil reverting to vegetative growth.  High rh and temps with low FAE?


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: Mycolorado]
    #25031756 - 03/01/18 03:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

If other people have the same problem maybe it will help them.

Mary grows pans like a boss. She knows how to dial in fruiting conditions.


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25031769 - 03/01/18 03:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm aware of Mary's Pan Prowess.  What do Pan fruiting conditions have to do with cube fruiting conditions?  She clearly stated she doesn't grow many cubes, so maybe she doesn't have them dialed in quite as well.  :shrug:


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: Mycolorado]
    #25031777 - 03/01/18 03:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
I'm aware of Mary's Pan Prowess.  What do Pan fruiting conditions have to do with cube fruiting conditions?  She clearly stated she doesn't grow many cubes, so maybe she doesn't have them dialed in quite as well.  :shrug:




It seems to me if she can read and follow directions well enough to grow pans then I doubt she has trouble following directions for cubensis.

Just saying if she has some kind of contamination problem I trust that she's ruled out other stuff.

Cubes basically grow themselves, conditions good or bad. She shouldn't be having completely stalled growth just from slightly off fruiting conditions. She would have to actually try to fuck up the tubs conditions and I just don't see her doing that.


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25031788 - 03/01/18 03:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm with you; just throwing out possible explanations besides bacteria or fungi.  Her skill would likely limit competitor organisms from taking up residence in her grows.


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: Mycolorado]
    #25031833 - 03/01/18 04:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Looks like universal veil reverting to vegetative growth.  High rh and temps with low FAE?




My Colorado-you may be on to something-
I didn't want to strongly stress the idea that the coating is mycelial- vegetative- growth because it would be too much conjecture on my part, BUT... Many on this site seem to think that the "socks" that are common at the base of stipes are just mycelial growth. Take that with my observation that peroxide also removes that fuzzy growth at the lower part of the stipes, then it isn't too far of a leap to surmise that the coating is also mycelial growth.


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25031851 - 03/01/18 04:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

whats the substate/casing made from in the OP? and why remove the myc from the base??

in this pic, the yellow is the center of the shroom stipe. the outside white(like an egg white) is thick.. really thick myc.


in fact, with those fresh shrooms i picked, i could removed that myc by kinda rolling it off. but why would you want to remove it?


Edited by mushboy (03/01/18 04:16 PM)


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25031858 - 03/01/18 04:15 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Looks similar to what Hamloaf had growing on one of his recent grows...

Check the link -----> Pinset Stalled for 2 Weeks. Fuzzy Whiteish Growth on Fruits.


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25031878 - 03/01/18 04:24 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
If other people have the same problem maybe it will help them.

Mary grows pans like a boss. She knows how to dial in fruiting conditions.




Thanks ET,
I understand the reasoning against proposing an unorthodox procedure but the standard answer- fanning and attempts to increase FAE weren't helpful enough.
I wouldn't be spraying my grow with peroxide for no reason. If someone else has this problem- then whats the loss, try it on a few pins first. 
Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
If other people have the same problem maybe it will help them.


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: Tormato]
    #25031879 - 03/01/18 04:24 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

in this pic, upper right, that shroom has thick myc crawling up the stipe.

i didnt mist this tub at all and it was slightly drier than normal.

maybe if OP posted some links to other peoples problems. honestly, anytime pins did that in my grows,
or like in hams post, it was from a contam that hadnt made itself visible yet but i cant say for sure.


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: Tormato]
    #25031882 - 03/01/18 04:25 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

If it is mycelium then could it be that the h2o2 kills the new growth and the chemical reaction changes the microclimate to facilitate fruit growth?


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: Tormato]
    #25031886 - 03/01/18 04:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tormato said:
Looks similar to what Hamloaf had growing on one of his recent grows...

Check the link -----> Pinset Stalled for 2 Weeks. Fuzzy Whiteish Growth on Fruits.




Thanks Tormato,
I  thought I saw Hams post before,
Then I looked for it again yesterday and couldn't find it.


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mushboy]
    #25031921 - 03/01/18 04:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
in this pic, upper right, that shroom has thick myc crawling up the stipe.

i didnt mist this tub at all and it was slightly drier than normal.

maybe if OP posted some links to other peoples problems. honestly, anytime pins did that in my grows,
or like in hams post, it was from a contam that hadnt made itself visible yet but i cant say for sure.




Good point,
I didn't reference links to others who seemed to have this same problem. I was probably using the wrong words on the search function.
I'm at a loss as to why this started happening to me. I can only put out wild speculation- so i'm not going to do that!
I saw no other signs of contamination- It may not even be a contamination- but some kind of reversion to vegetative mycelial growth like MyColorado mentioned.


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25031925 - 03/01/18 04:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

if you encounter fuzzy pins like that something is off. life doesnt abort for no reason..

myc all spiky and really fuzzed up around the base is mostly environmental. :cheers:


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mushboy]
    #25031940 - 03/01/18 04:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I've tried lots of stuff- mostly changing env. conds. Peroxide completely fixed it- with no apparent damage to the developing shrooms.


Edited by mary fairchild (03/01/18 05:23 PM)


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25031944 - 03/01/18 04:45 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Just curious if that fix involved lowering temp and rh?


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25031945 - 03/01/18 04:45 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

fanning doesnt do anything though. and what mycolorado said.


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: Mycolorado]
    #25032151 - 03/01/18 05:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Just curious if that fix involved lowering temp and rh?




I did not change any other conditions- just peroxide. This grow- the fruiting was done in an SGFC, after cinnamon didn't work, I did the peroxide treatment.


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mushboy]
    #25032156 - 03/01/18 05:24 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting stuff so far :popcorn:


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25032182 - 03/01/18 05:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Ah...sorry, I misread your last statement.


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: Mycolorado]
    #25032688 - 03/02/18 05:08 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I use a martha style greenhouse and I've added 3% peroxide mixture to my cool mist humidifier as a sort of sanitizer off an on for the last couple years
I've recently started another round of APES, they all had the same white film that marry is talking about untill i used a 3% mixture in my cool mist humidifier, it seems to have cleared up the infection overnight
Now to see if the little pins will grow faster

Before  peroxide


After peroxide


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: 99.99]
    #25032740 - 03/02/18 07:05 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

99.99 said:
I use a martha style greenhouse and I've added 3% peroxide mixture to my cool mist humidifier as a sort of sanitizer off an on for the last couple years
I've recently started another round of APES, they all had the same white film that marry is talking about untill i used a 3% mixture in my cool mist humidifier, it seems to have cleared up the infection overnight
Now to see if the little pins will grow faster

Before  peroxide


After peroxide





I sprayed my grow with peroxide because the white coating was dense and I knew from earlier grows that the pins were not going to mature. Peroxide worked great for that.
Hard to tell but your pins don't look as bad as mine.
Less dense coating or flecks don't seem to halt growth of the pins.

A CAUTION
The white stuff on the caps may be vegetative mycelia.
There's a big IF, but:
Peroxide removes or kills whatever is causing the white film on the cap of the pin. If the white coating on the caps is vegetative mycelia, that means that form of mycelia is vulnerable to peroxide. The mycelia at the surface of the substrate or case layer may also be vulnerable. Conceivably peroxide may interfere with the very early stage of mushroom development (hyphal knots to primordia).

Its interesting that peroxide blown out from your humidifier is able to clean up your pins.  Please keep me informed on the progress of you grow- especially production of more pins.


Edited by mary fairchild (03/02/18 01:15 PM)


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25033092 - 03/02/18 11:21 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

One could always swab a plate with a cap to determine if it’s a contam....I’m guessing cube myc will grow.


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: Mycolorado]
    #25033584 - 03/02/18 02:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I know what my APE look like as pins from my last grow and the film on these was new to my culture


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: 99.99]
    #25033763 - 03/02/18 04:06 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

White flecks seem pretty common on the caps of cubes during their maturation process.

Speculation but, the film may just be spreading from the white flecks  across the whole surface of the cap.
In a normal grow something just holds it in check to keep it from spreading over the whole cap.


Edited by mary fairchild (03/02/18 06:37 PM)


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25034892 - 03/03/18 12:31 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I think you just got impatient. It's normal for pins to form that don't start maturing right away.


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: Kizzle]
    #25035139 - 03/03/18 05:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting stuff.
Might be contam or vegetative revert just like mycolorado mentioned.

The h2o2 may have altered the climate condition or knock the contam abit.
Have been playing with ozone for a while now.
If my memory serve me right, Natural ozone reacts with terpenes in the forest which produce h2o2.


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Edited by pacmanbreed (03/03/18 06:24 AM)


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #25035737 - 03/03/18 12:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I guess its not that common of a problem and for me its much less of a problem now because its fixable. I don't need to do a lot of cube grows- don't need that much product for my purposes.
Just thought it might be worth considering for anyone who runs into it.

Thanks to all for your interest, and for your responses to this thread!


Edited by mary fairchild (03/03/18 02:24 PM)


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25035746 - 03/03/18 12:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Bacteria issues in the spawn is my guess



Hence the pinning survival mechanism

Either way it's not healthy I wouldn't be trying to salvage


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Re: Peroxide solves white film on pins [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25035754 - 03/03/18 12:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'd say if peroxide enters the equation maybe it's time to toss... like this.


I remember that tub smelling like bad cheese.

@mary, would you spray mine with h202 or toss?


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* arf... they are pinning too fast !!! procule 905 7 08/30/03 02:09 PM
by dog

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