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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7021301 -

Quote:
...how trees communicate with one another?



They 'bark'! :yesnod:


--------------------

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021306 -

No, but you implied that human communication was somehow different than the manner in which animals communicate. You were scoffing at the notion of other animals communicating through pulses of light. I guess you have never seen fireflys? :what:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021310 -

Pulsating said:
MushroomTrip said:
fireworks_god said:
MushroomTrip said:
Have you ever heard about echolocation?



Or has he read into how trees communicate with one another? :smile:



:yesnod:





I never said, or implied, that animals didn't communicate. But I am sure you knew that. :eek:



You said that:

Quote:
When was the last time a monkey (or any other animal) sent information around the planet to another monkey in a pulse of light.




In my book sending information = comunicating :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7021309 -

Poor sap.:thumbup:


--------------------

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7021339 -

fireworks_god said:
No, but you implied that human communication was somehow different than the manner in which animals communicate. You were scoffing at the notion of other animals communicating through pulses of light. I guess you have never seen fireflys? :what:




You see, I said "around the planet" to another of its kind. You have seen a firefly that did that? Amazing FG, just amazing!

And MT, communication is the interchange of ideas across space. I never said animals didn't interchange ideas across space...because they most certainly do.

But there are huge differences between animals and humans...not that one is superior or better....just there are huge differences...that stem from the fact that our basic natures are different.

OK guys, I'll be back after I chase down this doe and her baby, rip them both open with my teeth and feast on their raw bloody meat. See ya!



Edit:

And FG, my condescension at animals is purely in your mind. I think rather highly of my fellow Earthlings as they maintained the planet much more responsibly than we did.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Edited by Pulsating (06/07/07 11:10 PM)

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021370 -

My point, clearly, is that, even though there is marked differences, these are simply relative differences, and there is really only similarities amongst life. It is all simply life, different expressions of one phenomenon - life.

Speciation and the distinctions that result from it are interesting but that's about it. :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021387 -

Quote:
But there are huge differences between animals and humans...not that one is superior or better....just there are huge differences...that stem from the fact that our basic natures are different.



But tell me, clear that up for me.
What are exactly the differences?

Yes, animals kill each other in a "bestial" way, but just because they can't use guns like we do :shrug:
What other differences, besides that, do you see?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7021403 -

fireworks_god said:
My point, clearly, is that, even though there is marked differences, these are simply relative differences, and there is really only similarities amongst life. It is all simply life, different expressions of one phenomenon - life.

Speciation and the distinctions that result from it are interesting but that's about it. :shrug:




I agree it is all life.

But there is "life" and "biological life" and in my opinion, biological life comes from us, spiritual beings residing outside of the physical yet using the physical.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021409 -

MT, this is from page 2.

Pulsating said:
The differences that you see separate us from animals. I guess with the ability to observe one must also add in the ability to evaluate information.

When was the last time a monkey (or any other animal) sent information around the planet to another monkey in a pulse of light.

Technology.

What about art? Painting. Music. Architecture. Literature. The desire to expand consciousness through these things. Awareness of being aware.




--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Edited by Pulsating (06/07/07 11:25 PM)

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021423 -

Well I can feel the spiritual beings thing. I just think that all life is an expression of that, just not to the same degree. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7021436 -

fireworks_god said:
Well I can feel the spiritual beings thing. I just think that all life is an expression of that, just not to the same degree. :wink:




Agreed.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021444 -

Regarding information I think I have already cleared that up.
I said:

Quote:
Have you ever heard about echolocation?



and

Quote:
In my book sending information = communicating :shrug:



Now about evaluating information.
Having the ability to evaluate information = having the ability to think.
Now I saw tones of animals that show clear signs of manifesting the act of thinking :strokebeard:.
I saw animals that show compassion and love.

Tell me then, what other differences, besides the ones which you already presented and I debunked them, are there?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7021451 -

MushroomTrip said:
Regarding information I think I have already cleared that up.
I said:

Quote:
Have you ever heard about echolocation?



and

Quote:
In my book sending information = communicating :shrug:



Now about evaluating information.
Having the ability to evaluate information = having the ability to think.
Now I saw tones of animals that show clear signs of manifesting the act of thinking :strokebeard:.
I saw animals that show compassion and love.

Tell me then, what other differences, besides the ones which you already presented and I debunked them, are there?




You debunked absolutely nothing! And actually I have repeated a post (page 2 and 3) where I gave a small list of things which separate us from animals. And you still "didn't see it".

Our technology. The arts. Painting. Music. Architecture. Literature. The desire to expand consciousness through these things. Awareness of being aware.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021490 -

And how exactly do you determine that animals are not self aware?
And yes, there are awareness levels, but does that really make animals un-spiritual?
And what makes you think that in the future, animals won't increase their awareness even more? It's happened before, just look at dogs which were wild and in time they became our friends. That's a clear sign or spiritual evolution :smile:.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Questions for materialists [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7021514 -

MushroomTrip said:
And how exactly do you determine that animals are not self aware?
And yes, there are awareness levels, but does that really make animals un-spiritual?
And what makes you think that in the future, animals won't increase their awareness even more? It's happened before, just look at dogs which were wild and in time they became our friends. That's a clear sign or spiritual evolution :smile:.




Interesting questions you asked.

I think animals and plants are intensely spiritual and that we, as spirits, actually created and inhabited them as we do human bodies at the moment. I also think there is a lot we can re-learn from animals (not necessarily all of them) as to maintaining more balance with the environment. (Such as overpopulation, pollution, and the various other goodies man has to offer)

Evolution is happening all the time in present time and not just for humans, for all things alive.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021578 -

Exactly :thumbup:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Questions for materialists [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7021748 -

MushroomTrip said:
What is it that separates us from animals really?



beastiality laws thats what.


--------------------

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7021776 -

Psychoactive1984 said:
We can't replicate a blackhole? Whos to say that its not a natural process? We can't replicate fusion, who's to say that it didn't come along on its own? I'm really missing your point here.

I'll sum it up; technology isn't up to speed.



er yes they have... not fusion that is but yes theve created small black holes that lasted milliseconds.

MushroomTrip said:
And how exactly do you determine that animals are not self aware?
And yes, there are awareness levels, but does that really make animals un-spiritual?
And what makes you think that in the future, animals won't increase their awareness even more? It's happened before, just look at dogs which were wild and in time they became our friends. That's a clear sign or spiritual evolution :smile:.



spirtual evolution? became our friends? did i miss something? Last time i remembered Dogs were acclimated into human culture as tools and then friends. it wasnt like they just popped  in and were like "whats up dude can we coexist" lol.

waaaay different.


But on a serious note you all are basically arguing a lost cause. sounds like semantics to me. there will never be a right answer.

We are all animals yes...but we are also COMPLETELY different. to deny that is asinine. of course we share alot of traits and behaviors with other creatures! We do live on the same planet!

Are we superior mentally/psychically/spiritually/culturally? YES
Do we share traits? of course
are we different? duh
are we alike? duh
can a monkey ever conquer a planet? nope
can a human? yes
can other animals experience love? yep
do other animals rape? you fucking bet
can we experience higher forms? you bet
are we inferior to some animals in different ways? yes
superior? most of the time.


clear enough for you all?


and when it comes to that materialism crap...no we cant create diamonds or create humans.........yet.

the fact that we can be an accident is very possible...its also possible to win the lottery.

possible but not really probable.

the thing is people we will never know. So instead of dwelling on weather or not we were some primordial abortion why dont worry about issues that do matter.

stay safe.


--------------------

Edited by Hakim0777 (06/08/07 03:06 AM)

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Hakim0777]
    #7021784 -

Hakim0777 said:
MushroomTrip said:
What is it that separates us from animals really?



beastiality laws thats what.



haha

that doesn't stop everyone, especially kiwi's...that and computer geeks.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021788 -

Pulsating said:
If it is true that this physical universe and the things within it are just random and accidental combinations of matter/energy, have always been and will always be matter/energy and if "life" (consciousness) is just *the result* of some accidental combination of chemicals, why haven't our advanced modern sciences been able to reproduce this accidental combination of chemicals and create "life" in a controlled environment?



well you can't get all general about shit. always always always. Most of the time there is no always.

besides humans are very limited in what we can do. we are just a few droplets of piss in one big septic tank that is the universe.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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