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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7020639 -

I'll clarify. Our degree of sentience and culture.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7020643 -

:goose:
!AFLACK!

Sorry, I saw the duck I couldn't help myself.


--------------------

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7020644 -

MushroomTrip said:
This is a debate forum.
You have to sustain your ideas :shrug:
This is not about being able or unable to discern the difference, but to sustain them.


Try debating with someone who refuses to observe. It doesn't work.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7020648 -

backfromthedead said:
:goose:
!AFLACK!

Sorry, I saw the duck I couldn't help myself.


It's awesome!


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7020651 -

Animals don't have sentience? :what:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7020663 -

Not our degree of it. Not in our capacity. Thats how we define our difference between us and animal. Generally we refrence it in terms of consciousness and/or language but that is inadequate as animals surely have our emotional capacity and our degree of understanding if not more (i think of my cat that follows me around my house and acts more like a dog then a cat should), and animals languages are equally as complex as our own.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Questions for materialists [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7020668 -

Sentience is a gradient scale. Even among humans, some are more aware than others.

It's not just a matter of on/off.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7020989 -

Quote:
What is it that separates us from animals really?



A crow bar and some vaseline...? :shrug:


--------------------

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7021124 -

Psychoactive1984 said:
Not our degree of it. Not in our capacity. Thats how we define our difference between us and animal.


Higher 'degrees' of something do not constitute *definitive* differences. I am looking for a quality that humans possess that other animals do not. Something that can objectively define a human as inherently different than a very intelligent, not very hairy ape.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7021155 -

That sounds really... Wrong.


--------------------

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021157 -

Pulsating said:
If you can't spot the differences between humans and animals, you should be doing something besides playing on the internet.


:rolleyes:

Of course I can spot differences.  That's not what we're talking about.

Quote:
MushroomTrip said:

What is it that separates us from animals really?


Where is the fine line? 

If there is no fine line, then we are not separate from the other animals.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7021251 -

The differences that you see separate us from animals. I guess with the ability to observe one must also add in the ability to evaluate information.

When was the last time a monkey (or any other animal) sent information around the planet to another monkey in a pulse of light.

Technology.

What about art? Painting. Music. Architecture. Literature. The desire to expand consciousness through these things. Awareness of being aware.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7021263 -

WhiskeyClone said:
Where is the fine line? 

If there is no fine line, then we are not separate from the other animals.


Exactly :smile:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021268 -

Quote:
When was the last time a monkey (or any other animal) sent information around the planet to another monkey in a pulse of light.


Have you ever heard about echolocation?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Questions for materialists [Re: Pulsating]
    #7021269 -

I think that is her point. What is the difference but simply the degree to which we have evolved?

Whiskeyclone's questions had a specific purpose and you even answered them quite well. We understand conceptually how a diamond is formed. We are not presently capable of reproducing this phenomenon for ourselves due to the fact that we are not capable of arranging the circumstances to produce them.

What is the difference between this and the formation of life? There is no difference, and you answered your own question when you responded to his question regarding the formation of diamonds. We simply do not have the theoretical understanding of how life is formed. We didn't always know how a diamond was formed. Like sentience in animals, our understanding exists on a gradient scale. We may or may not build more of an understanding of the nature of life and how it has arisen within this reality, and, like diamonds, we may or may not be capable of utilizing that understanding to initiate the sequence to reproduce it for ourselves.

Of course, as life, we are already capable of carrying out the sequence to create life. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7021271 -

MushroomTrip said:
Have you ever heard about echolocation?


Or has he read into how trees communicate with one another? :smile:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Questions for materialists [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7021280 -

fireworks_god said:
MushroomTrip said:
Have you ever heard about echolocation?


Or has he read into how trees communicate with one another? :smile:


:yesnod:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Questions for materialists [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7021290 -

Or of how whales communicate, and the overwhelming complexity and range of expression that they command in their method of communication? Sound, light, it is all simply different forms of the same thing - energy. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Questions for materialists [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7021296 -

Yes... same thing about bats :laugh:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Questions for materialists [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7021298 -

MushroomTrip said:
fireworks_god said:
MushroomTrip said:
Have you ever heard about echolocation?


Or has he read into how trees communicate with one another? :smile:


:yesnod:




I never said, or implied, that animals didn't communicate. But I am sure you knew that. :eek:


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com APE Liquid Culture For Sale, Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

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