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Anonymous

violence or non-violence that is the question...
    #1304202 - 02/13/03 02:40 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Here is my question for everyone to post their opinions/arguments on.
(i'm talking about the big picture gov. here)
it is my understanding that non-violence is done so that the masses can see that there is something wrong and do something about it.
However the problem arises when the people in power seem to be cold hearted (i realize that if they could realise that they'd be richer and be able to fill that void spiritually instead of materialistically it would all be good, but they don't realise it or think this way) and unchangeable, and rightly so, because to them life is good the way it is....after all who cares if a bunch of us lower class (or the majority) get killed.
It seems to me this is what the hippies in the 60's had to learn, and i quote the saxaphoneist from van morrison " peace with power".....which i take to mean, if they have all the guns and shit, we can do these non-violence things and it won't do a damn thing because we still won't have the power, even if ALL the good hearted people know and think the same (which is pritty much true now).

Now keep in mind i LOVE my government , and would never conspiricise against them....so this is all just a look at history, theory and opinion.  :smirk:


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OfflineSmashedMe
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Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: mikejwill]
    #1304261 - 02/13/03 03:18 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

This is a very tuff topic. I see all your points. I am going to ponder this for today and hopefully find this topic and post my opinion later.


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
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Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: SmashedMe]
    #1304275 - 02/13/03 03:28 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

No the goverment is the enemy within in, if it wasnt for the goverments crappy attitude then the world would be a better place. They should promote peace love and happyness, not robot, machine robot, death, kill machine brainwash ,robot mashine robot death.  :grin:


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.


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Invisibledee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†
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Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: mikejwill]
    #1304624 - 02/13/03 06:36 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I think, as much as some (myself included sometimes) might feel that violence is the only way, it's not.
The only way does include violence, however, but is not focused on it.

If someone is physically attacking you, by all means, defend yourself. If the time comes when you realize that you're the one attacking in the attempt to enforce what you believe - stop right there. In the context of violence that you're talking about here (government law enforcement) DEFENSE is your best option. Not to mention we are Constitutionally obligated to defend ourselves if attacked by a tyrannous U.S. force.


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
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Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: mikejwill]
    #1304785 - 02/13/03 07:29 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

The whole idea of non-violence is ridiculous. We all know we are violent sometimes, some more often than others, but to deny our violence and say "From now on, I'll be non-violent" is just suppressing what you are, not dealing with why you are violent. The governments of the world use violence to get what they want from their own citizens and from other nations because if they rationalized their desires, and logically thought out their actions to get what they want, they would never be able to sell their bullshit reason to the other party or the public. Violence breeds ignorance, and they don't need to give a valid reason for killing another person, or for starting a war.


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: mikejwill]
    #1305044 - 02/13/03 09:53 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

good post, its funny

Were (fighting) a war on terror.

In my opinon, violence + violence = violence


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflineGrav
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Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1305112 - 02/13/03 10:13 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

violence should be channeled into an enormous moshpit under control of some crazy ass metal band...
it should be a national event!
after one of those, everyone is still alive (usually) and you feel fuckin great, like you just went to battle or something and survived...
then we wont have all these finicky disgusted emotions to take out on each other


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OfflineLoverofEarth
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Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: mikejwill]
    #1305256 - 02/13/03 11:13 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I've been pondering this question lately as well. Violence definitely will not work. A violent take-over, or whatever you want to call it, will lead to another violent takeover, no two ways about it.. But, the question is can violence be used to better the world and humanity? I wonder if destroying globalized coporate buildings, franchises and public buildings would help? They have the funding and they are more than happy to rebuild, rebuild, rebuild. Can we collectively destroy Babylon through brute force? Could the masses be informed of our plight objectively --- it seems that most 'counterculture' media is just the attempt to sway public opinion, based on opinion. Is there anyone out there who has a truly objective view of humanity and the world's situation? I can only speak for myself, but, except for very rare occasions.. I live in my own subjective world, structured by my biases, beliefs, etc. True objectivity is god like, in fact I think what we need is a messiah. Not the second coming of christ as the protestant and catholic christians would have you believe, but christ-consciousness is about the only way out of this mess. Perhaps the second coming of christ is not what the church would have you believe.. perhaps it is inside every one of us and we have the ability to bring about that change.

On that point, and while im in a manic mood I might make another post on it, the gnostic mysteries might shed some light. Supposedly the gnostics are a little known sect of christianity who were all but eradicated way back when. Psychoactive plants and mushrooms were the key to christ-consciousness in their initiatios. The annointing of Christ was that of oil made from the flowering tops of marijuana. I'm rambling so you might think what I'm saying is all a bunch of rubbish, but, and I've heard this from several different places, Christ was hated by the hierarchical church because he freely passed out marijuana to the peasants. He broke the rules of the church who wanted the plant only for their kings. Here's a really cool link on the gnostic mysteries cause the more I type the dumber I sound.


Edited by LoverofEarth (02/13/03 11:15 AM)


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OfflineSmashedMe
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Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: Grav]
    #1305306 - 02/13/03 11:33 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

violence should be channeled into an enormous moshpit under control of some crazy ass metal band...
it should be a national event!
after one of those, everyone is still alive (usually) and you feel fuckin great, like you just went to battle or something and survived...
then we wont have all these finicky disgusted emotions to take out on each other




I think Gwar should be playing. Then I will be there.


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OfflineNirvhead
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Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: Grav]
    #1305634 - 02/13/03 01:29 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

OPETH!!!!


--------------------
Like a fiend in a cloud
With howling woe,
After night I do croud
And with night will go;
I turn my back to the east,
From whence comforts have increas'd;
For light doth seize my brain
With frantic pain.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: mikejwill]
    #1306451 - 02/13/03 07:16 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

mikejwill writes:

Here is my question for everyone to post their opinions/arguments on.

So sorry, I read the post three times and couldn't find the question I am supposed to respond to. Could you please point it out to me? Thank you.

pinky


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InvisibleJoshua
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Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,389
Loc: The Matrix
Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: mikejwill]
    #1306455 - 02/13/03 07:17 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Dude...shut up before I kick your wimpy ass!!

Joshua


--------------------
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"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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Anonymous

Re: violence or non-violence that is the question... [Re: Phred]
    #1306924 - 02/14/03 02:18 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I concur.  Perhaps the author's native language isn't english or perhaps he was trying to dodge the issue or perhaps he didn't know what he was trying to say or perhaps, well, you get the idea.


Nice to see you in here! :smile:

Cheers


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