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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: The past and the future... [Re: dblaney]
    #6955800 -

In the first definition, for "now", you say that it refers to a point in time: something that is the same regardless of interpretation and subjectivity.

Um...R-E-L-A-T-I-V-I-T-Y!

Time does not flow the same for each observer...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: The past and the future... [Re: trendal]
    #6955821 -

Okay, so then how would you define "now"?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: The past and the future... [Re: dblaney]
    #6955827 -

"Now" is defined as a point in time...and you don't need time to be the same for everyone in order to pick a point in time.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: trendal]
    #6955830 -

Quote:
Time does not flow the same for each observer...


But is that because time is moving faster or slower, or because the observer is moving at a different speed (relative to others)?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: The past and the future... [Re: dblaney]
    #6955840 -

Time does not "move"....we move through time. We commonly refer to the "flow" of time, but it is not time that is flowing - we move though it.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: trendal]
    #6955853 -

Holy contradictions Batman! :ooo:


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: The past and the future... [Re: SoY]
    #6955858 -

Where?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: trendal]
    #6955871 -

What explanation do you exactly find for the face that everything is predetermined up to the point where we're unable to freely choose anything? Meaning, hoe exactly do you prove that?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: The past and the future... [Re: SoY]
    #6955876 -

SoY said:
Holy contradictions Batman! :ooo:


:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: SoY]
    #6955877 -

Quote:
Time does not flow the same for each observer...


Quote:
Time does not "move"....we move through time. We commonly refer to the "flow" of time, but it is not time that is flowing - we move though it.


Right, time does not move or change. Only our perception of it does. There is only NOW, and it exists forever.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: SoY]
    #6955896 -

Quote:
trendal said:
We commonly refer to the "flow" of time, but it is not time that is flowing - we move though it.


:wink:

Is that really the best you can do? A contradiction? :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: trendal]
    #6955904 -

I don't have enough of a background in physics to go too deep into this, but we are manifestations of space-time, no? So then the rate at which time seems to flow is the rate at which we are flowing. So if you somehow accelerate someone close enough to the speed of light, time would seem to do some weird things. Because time is a measure of things relative to other things.

Anyways, all that aside, the point I'm trying to get at is that regardless of what speed time is or isn't moving at, and regardless of how we perceive time to be, we perceive time. Or we think we do.

Is there really such a thing as time? Or is it merely a conceptual measure that we get caught up in? I think it's the latter. There is no past, present, or future. Those are only ideas. So if we take away all ideas of the past, all ideas of the future, and all ideas about the present, what is it that is left?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: The past and the future... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6955907 -

MushroomTrip said:
What explanation do you exactly find for the face that everything is predetermined up to the point where we're unable to freely choose anything? Meaning, hoe exactly do you prove that?


You don't...it's one of those big mysteries in life :smirk:

You can't prove it one way or another.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: SoY]
    #6955913 -

SoY said:
Right, time does not move or change.  Only our perception of it does.  There is only NOW, and it exists forever.


I dunno about the existing forever part, but otherwise :thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: SoY]
    #6955927 -

Quote:
"Now" is defined as a point in time...and you don't need time to be the same for everyone in order to pick a point in time.


Time is the same for everyone, only not everyone is observing from the same vantage point.  Zoom all the way out, and the entire life cycle of this universe becomes instantaneous.  Reality is one event, one moment, forever.

NOW isn't a point in time, it is your point of view.  Time/reality/awareness is an infinite fractal.  You can zoom both ways.  Zoom in and you get the same type of effect as a high-speed camera, where the movement of electrons around an atom has the same duration as the birth and death of the universe.  Zoom out and everything happens in one instant. 

I spent a month in the woods one night while tripping on mushrooms. :wink:


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: dblaney]
    #6955935 -

If you accelerated someone to the speed of light they would cease to move through time at all.

Think of it like this:
Time is a dimension just like the usual spatial 3 - length, width, and height. But it is unlike the other 3 in that it exists at right-angles to them. Picture a football field, and imagine the field is space-time. Going across the field is "space" and going down the field is "time". Now you are always traveling at the speed of light (c) on the field, you can't go any faster or slower. If you are sitting still in the spatial dimensions...you are moving at c down the field - in time. If you then start to move through space, you have to take away some of your speed through time - because you can only move at c through the field. If you decide to put all your speed into moving through space, you will be at a standstill in time.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: trendal]
    #6955950 -

Time is a mental concept for calculating change. Since we're not mentally exactly the same, our perceptions of time (namely observing the change) might differ. So what is wrong with the assertion change your mind, change the time (present and future in extent)?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6955957 -

Time is a mental concept for calculating change.

I'm sorry, but we cannot continue this discussion while you lack an understanding of modern physics. Our views on what "time" is simply don't mesh.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: trendal]
    #6955971 -

Isn't that the point of a debate? To make your point understood? Clearly, if you would of done that I wouldn't be asking you all these questions.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The past and the future... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6955996 -

I think it's apparent that you have your own idea on what time is, and if nothing I have said changes it, probably nothing I could say will. I will not spend my entire day on here trying vainly to change your mind.

Likewise I have my own idea of what time is, and nothing you have said comes close to changing my mind.

Sometimes, in discussion, it's better to just agree to disagree.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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