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OfflineChubbSubb
Zen Lunatic

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 612
Loc: Here.
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Do we belong on earth?
    #688969 - 06/19/02 08:24 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

As i was walking the other day some strange thoughts occured to me. Do human beings belong on this planet? Think about it. All we do is destroy it. We live beyond our means, we are the only species that causes harm to the earth. Is this planet meant for only animals, insects, etc....were we put here by something other than the creator of mother earth? We are the bacteria eating away at the planet, would god create a species that would destroy the earth? Were we created by a higher being and put here after gods creation was finished? Should we be on this planet?


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Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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InvisibleSmack31
Stranger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,680
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #689048 - 06/19/02 08:56 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

The native americans lived off the land and completely respected nature...


(just wanted to throw that in)


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Offline11polakie11
PeripheralCustodian

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 112
Loc: G-Ville FLA
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #689123 - 06/19/02 09:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Do we belong here? I think so, or else I don't think we as a race would be here. However, do we deserve this planet and all we are given? thats another thought all together..

adam


--------------------
-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_


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Offlinedumlovesyou
retired shroomer
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 685
Loc: One dimension
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #689275 - 06/19/02 10:48 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I was thinking these days and came to the conclusion that we cannot be more natural as we are. We are natural. I just think the nature needs to be balanced.. So to stop the to powerful creation of nature, we destroy it.


--------------------
I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world


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Offlinedeepr
the dancer

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 238
Loc: nzl
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: dumlovesyou]
    #689322 - 06/19/02 11:16 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

yes we belong on this planet, we have evolved to best suit the environment of this planet, like an orthapaedic chair or a tight leather glove, green eggs and ham, peanut butter and jam ... unlikely partners
but where else would we fit chubby

it is unfortunate that the majority of humanity are slightly spiritually and mentally retarded and breed like rabbits and make their tedious b.s. consumer preference and presence felt to the extreme, we are heading for disaster all we can do is hope something good comes out of the ashes, maybe an 'intelligent' race..

we are moving too fast in the wrong direction


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: Smack31]
    #689493 - 06/20/02 02:54 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

hmmm.... the "clovis" people (early human arrivals to north america) completely destroyed the large mammal populations (pachyderms, camels, several others) on this continent within a few hundred years of arriving... (and the bison were dam' near done in by the eurofolk who arrived ~ 12,000 years later)
~
so have ya heard of S.M.I2.L.E. ??? or the idea that our yearnings for the stars is a desire to return to out true home? (i am not suggesting that humans were planted here by "alien" races; our DNA is inextricably linked to other life-forms of this biosphere... but that we are all composed of "starstuff" --- the elements that make up our bodies & our planet cooked up in thermonuclear reactions in stars long dead, spewed out into deep space to be gathered as solids, liquids, life, awareness... ready to leave this cradle when we are grown up enough to find a way back "home" in the skies...)
~
"man came from the mud, the ooze, and the slime
an integral part of the master design..."
(from "time cube"/roger mcguinn)
~
p.s. --- and the bacteria and their allies are the true sustainers of this planet... and their biomass is alleged to be greater than that of all the eucaryotes (animals, plants, fungi, & protists --- the other 4 of the "5 kingdoms") added together... (see margulis & sagan _microcosmos_ for more on how monerans (bacteria & archaebacters) shaped gaia --- & not all that long after the waters of creation cooled from steam to liquid... one suspects that life may be common where water is available...)


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


Edited by gnrm23 (06/20/02 03:02 AM)


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #689501 - 06/20/02 03:10 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I am not sure what you mean, but it's an interesting question.

One thing I do not understand is that people say humans are killing the Earth. Well this may sound like some radical opinion hear me out I dont think we are killing the Earth. I mean, we are destroying the O-Zone layer and poisoning the waters, etc. but is that really killing the Earth or just changing it? I always felt that what people meant by save the Earth was save yourself in a way. Because when we wanna save the O-Zone layer we do it (largely) because we don't want skin cancer, and the nicer of us do it for all species and people like me do it because we want the Earth to remain as much as it was in the beginning. No matter what we do, the Earth will still be here in some form. Who is to say what form is best. My personal feeling is that its unperverted form is the best. But what is unperverted? One might argue that evolution is pervertion.

I think a universal truth for life is that we all masters of our own fate, well this is not ground breaking to anyone who has tripped I know. In a sense I guess you could say whatever we do to the Earth is the way it should be, because that's what we made.

Understand I am sort of playing a bit of devil's advocate here and I am a big believer in trying to keep the Earth preserved and trying to protect the animals, just trying to make a counterpoint for the sake of greater enlightenment, do respond by all means...


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #689539 - 06/20/02 04:15 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I think your question should be, do we deserve to live on the earth?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: Smack31]
    #689576 - 06/20/02 04:51 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

The native americans lived off the land and completely respected nature...

This is just another myth that was debunked a few years ago in a book by a Native American.

Watch some movies about American Indians from the 40s through to today. The image presented to mainstream America changed rapidly each decade reflecting the cuurent social outlook.

Native Americans had a fairly short life expectancy (still do!) and high infant mortality. That plus all of the warring against other tribes kept their numbers too low to do significant ecological damage.

One tribe was known to pour deadly plant toxins into the river to harvest fish.

Torture of one's enemies was ubiquitous.

They were no more spiritual nor bloodthirsty than any other group of human beings.




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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #689580 - 06/20/02 04:56 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

As I was walking the other day, some strange thoughts occured to me. Do human beings think strange thoughts while walking, and do those thoughts include thoughts about walking and thinking, while walking and thinking about walking while thinking?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTeiro
Earth Entitie
Registered: 12/05/00
Posts: 174
Loc: A Sunny Beach in a Tropic...
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #689727 - 06/20/02 06:53 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Technology, captalism and unlimited ambitions are the things that are destroying the planet.


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Life does not have to be necessarily long. It just has to be good. Be wise. Peace, Love, Flower Power.


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #689740 - 06/20/02 07:00 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

"... the Earth doesn't want us anymore, see. She's brought us up as best she could and now it's time to leave the nest and let her get on with her business. We're not wanted here. We have to cut the apron strings, boy. Can't suck at mummy's tit forever. We have to leave our bodies and our cities behind us and go into space, just like the little fishes had to leave the sea was all they knew. And when we're gone, then the Earth will just grow over the cities and turn them to dust. Meantime we must make allies of the tower blocks and the motorways and the industrial estates..."

"Did I really turn into a pigeon? I mean, how did it happen? Was it real? It was more like a dream."

"You always ask the same thing. When you dream, what makes you think it's not real?"

"It's a fucking dream. You can't touch it, can you?"

"Did you ever hold the hand of the man who reads the news every night on telly?

- Tom O'Bedlam and Jack Frost
from the Invisibles comic series
by Grant Morrison


--------------------
* * * * * * * * * *
Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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Anonymous

Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: Swami]
    #689755 - 06/20/02 07:10 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

This is just another myth that was debunked a few years ago in a book by a Native American.

And as we all know... everything written on paper is true... right Swami? ::poke

Native Americans had a fairly short life expectancy (still do!) and high infant mortality. That plus all of the warring against other tribes kept their numbers too low to do significant ecological damage.

One tribe was known to pour deadly plant toxins into the river to harvest fish.

Torture of one's enemies was ubiquitous.

They were no more spiritual nor bloodthirsty than any other group of human beings.


I would say that instead of looking at Native Americans as a whole.. look at the Hopi culture. Sure there were some tribes that didn't follow the mold...but Native Americans as a whole have been given a bad rap. Remember the stories of how they scalped the white men? Well.. actually it was the other way around. Remember, it was the white man who came to this country and took it (their land) from them by force. Native Americans at the time, in general, lived much more in harmony with nature than the Europeans were at the time.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ]
    #689829 - 06/20/02 07:47 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

And as we all know... everything written on paper is true... right Swami? ::poke
(I threw out some bait and you swallowed it whole. All too easy, my young friend.)Of course not, but is is rare than AmerIndians slam other AmerIndians. The author may have had an agenda or may have done actual research and presented a balanced view.

I would say that instead of looking at Native Americans as a whole..
Instead of looking at European culture as a whole, lets look at some amazing individuals such as Plato, Da Vinci, Aristotle, Socrates, Galileo, Micahelangelo, etc.

Remember the stories of how they scalped the white men? Well.. actually it was the other way around.
Indians did indeed scalp members of other tribes as well as white settlers.

Remember, it was the white man who came to this country and took it (their land) from them by force.
In the same way that some tribes took women, food, and hunting grounds from other tribes. There was NO moral difference.

Europeans kicked ass for several reasons:
1. Superior weaponry
2. Superior organization
3. Spread of disease weakend or wiped out many tribes
4. Superior numbers
5. Superior agriculture

Survival of the fittest - genocide seems to fit in with the rest of biological evolution.

Native Americans at the time, in general, lived much more in harmony with nature than the Europeans were at the time.
Freezing and starving to death, dying in childbirth and short lifespans are indicative of being in harmony with nature?!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (06/20/02 12:18 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: Swami]
    #689832 - 06/20/02 07:49 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Before the flames rise too high, note that I am 1/16th Iriquois, but have no connection to that part of my heritage.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: Swami]
    #689922 - 06/20/02 08:55 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I don't want to stoke the fire.. I just felt the need to stand up for the Native Americans because a lot of misinformation exists about them. I'm not entirely disagreeing with you.. but

Freezing and starving to death, dying in childbirth and short lifespans are indicative of being in harmony with nature?!

Well.. more so than nuclear weapons, The War on Drugs, and whatever else. Ok.. so that's not the same time period.. but you get my point.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #689944 - 06/20/02 09:14 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I think we definitely belong here on this earth just as much as any other animal. The thing is, we need to learn how to belong correctly, meaning living in balance with the earth and all the other creatures on it.
Although there some MAJOR differences between us and most other animals on this planet, we are still animals with basic animal instincts. And the strongest of those instincts is to survive and reproduce.
That's what we've been doing for thousands of years. And finally, after years and years of evolving and becoming smarter and inventing new technology, we are beginning to realize some of the effects of our "surviving" on this planet. More and more people are realizing that we are grossly overpopulated; that we are polluting the soil, the water, and even the air we breathe. And we are realizing that our population and methods for survival are having a dire impact on the populations of other animals with whom we share this planet.
And FINALLY, we are taking some large steps to correct our actions! I'm not saying that everyone everywhere is aware of the environmental hazards we are causing and trying to fix them. But I'm saying more and more people are becoming aware, and we are finally starting to do something to stop it.
That is what gives me hope. I think it is not just our bodies that are evolving, but our minds and our morals are too.
More and more young people are being educated about the environment and how to help it. More and more young people are being exposed to nature through television shows and information on the internet.
In time, we will realize all of our mistakes. And hopefully enough people will be educated and care enough to right the wrongs of the past.
So don't think we don't belong here! Of course we belong here! Believing that we don't really belong here will lead to apathy and a lack of desire to fix the problems we have created. We have to take responsiblity, realize that the earth is our mother, and start doing things to heal her!
That's all! Haha

-RebelSteve


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Namaste.


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ]
    #690390 - 06/20/02 01:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hope I am not poking into a more private conversation but...

Native Americans are no different than any other type of human, there were some really good ones and some really bad ones. There were plenty of Native American's who were in harmony with the land, there were plenty who were not. Same with the Anglo's, etc.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineBuddha1
journeyman
Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 73
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #690401 - 06/20/02 01:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

What is meant by the word 'belong'?

We are here, that is evident. But to say that we, or anything, belongs anywhere means that someone intended something to be somewhere. So you are asking if someone, or something, intended us to be here. If that is what you are asking then it is evident that you believe that something or someone is superior to us, to nature, and that our world is a result of their will. I have never witnessed anything superior to nature, so I'm going to have to say that nothing belongs anywhere.


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InvisibleRevelation

 User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,130
Loc: heart cave
Re: Do we belong on earth? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #690429 - 06/20/02 01:59 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

We are nature => everything we do is natural. Whether we "belong" or not is not really the issue. If we can find a way to survive we will survive, if we can't, we won't. Natural selection at work.

It seems to me we developed conciousness as an aid to survival, it was a natural evolutionary step. But evolution can't see into the future, it couldn't see that conciousness would eventually lead to our demise. This is just the nature of evolution.


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