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OfflinePanoramix
Getafix
Male

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 634
Loc: Everywhere else
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: "First American" Drunks [Re: ]
    #2289907 - 01/31/04 03:21 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

At first I found this thread derogatory, racist and in poor taste.

But now I'm tickled pink!  :smile: :laugh: :grin: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.

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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: "First American" Drunks [Re: Sclorch]
    #2291669 - 02/01/04 12:12 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

It's real world evidence of this truth.

There is really no correlation. Maybe some sort of evidence would be there if the American Natives would actually have substituted peyote with alcohol for the same purpose, but I don't think this is the case (even though I am no expert by any means).

One may use mushrooms very rarely for spiritual development and at the same time be totally addicted to sugar(a drug). Or is spiritual development and sugar addiction mutually exclusive?

I do not disagree with your point ("no drug is inherently spiritual"). Quite the opposite, I totally respect it. It can be a dangerous mistake to accept this as truth. However, presenting weak arguments (and I consider this a weak argument) can sometimes work the other way around.

I would claim that certain substances have the potential to aid in spiritual development (probably through self-reflection) more than others. This however does not mean they are inherently spiritual.

(Nevertheless, "spirituality" has to be defined prior to coming to any sort of conclusions.)

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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: "First American" Drunks [Re: Sclorch]
    #2291866 - 02/01/04 02:02 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:

Around here, few would question that Native Americans are more spiritual than most people living in America. And it's almost clich? to mention the irony of the large incidence of alcohol abuse among Native Americans, but it brings up an interesting point.

Since the Native American Church (and others) considers peyote to be a very powerful spiritual tool, then why do there seem to be more alcoholics than peyote abusers among the Native American population?

Granddaddy?s cough syrup must be a more powerful ?medicine? than The Great Spirit?s alkaloid-containing cactus.




Well, one time when I was a little kid, I saw this special on modern day Native americans and it was like a reality TV-style documentary where they filmed the everyday events of this reservation and went in people's houses and stuff. These people were living in squalor and drinking Lysol to get high.

I asked my dad why those people were doing that and he told me it wasnt their fault, and that their people had been through a lot of shit at the hands of people like us ("us" meaning upper-class white people). He told me that the native americans used to have a lifestyle that was completely different from ours and we destroyed it and assimilated them into our ghettos as a lower class. He didnt seem too guilty about it though.

alchoholism is a disease, and just like smallpox and all the other diseases that were suddenly introduced to the Americas when the europeans invaded, the Native Americans have had a tough time resisting against it. I would just say that the answer to your question is : "culture shock". Not to mention we jacked their land.

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