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Invisiblei am e goldstein
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 283
Loc: 4 Blocks from Ground Zero
Post deleted by Administrator
    #1131835 - 12/11/02 09:07 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.
3DSHROOMS is either clueless or the worlds biggest SCUMBAG
I lie and exagerate constantly... God Bless America!


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Anonymous

Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: i am e goldstein]
    #1133640 - 12/11/02 09:29 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"Imagine if you will, Congress passing a bill to make Indian tribes more self-sufficient that gives billions of dollars to the white backers of Indian businesses-and nothing to hundreds of thousands of Native Americans living in poverty. Or a bill that gives hundreds of millions of dollars to one Indian tribe with a few dozen members-and not a penny to a tribe with hundreds of thousands of members. Or a bill that allows select Indian tribes to create businesses that reap millions of dollars in profits and pay no federal income tax ? at the same time that the tribes collect millions in aid from American taxpayers. Can't imagine Congress passing such a bill? It did."

You can imagine what I think of this.

Thanks E.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: i am e goldstein]
    #1133741 - 12/11/02 11:06 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

If any one group of people in America ever got a raw deal it was the Native Americans----hands Down.

In this day and age however I take issue with the fact that many are still, uneducated, poor, alcoholic, reservation hermits. Yes the "system" kept them down and held them back at one time but now with all the subsidies they get for jobs, college, taxes, training......it is ridiculous. Talk about the old cliche "give a man a fish, he eats for a day......teach him how to fish, he eats for life" all we are doing is giving them fish. It's time they take some personal responsibility and quit feeling sorry for how they have been wronged.

Before anyone uses words like Bigot, or racist....my grandmother is full Native. Also, I am generalising....I have been witness to many, many Natives making it off the res. and becoming successful. Overall, I think my statement holds true though.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


Edited by chemkid (12/11/02 11:06 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: chemkid]
    #1133784 - 12/11/02 11:22 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"It's time they take some personal responsibility and quit feeling sorry for how they have been wronged."

The word bigot was used too often in this forum today. We don't want to create an offical policy on it but if calling people names starts to become a way of dialogue we will. And we will enforce it.

To address your comment directly having Native blood does not guarantee you understand the issue. From your comment I would say you probably don't. There are two types of Natives:

1. Traditional

2. Hang around the forts.

Your comment looks like it fits the second category.

Please explain to me how we "take personal responsibility" and "stop feeling sorry for ourselves?"

While were at it tell me which res you've visited and what is your blood?


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: ]
    #1133800 - 12/11/02 11:33 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

As I said....my comments were very broad and general but in my experience this is true. (again I know many successful Natives)

You are right. Having native blood doesn't give me the golden pass to omniscience about Indian affairs. But living in AZ near many reservations (visiting them on a not so regular basis) experiencing racism myself from them, and having friends and family of Native decent; all this does make my opinion somewhat informed.

My Grandmother is of Cherokee decent. She is dead now but I think I remember her saying that she had some Gila in her as well.

As for personal responsibility: I mean that when all of those wonderful opportunities are available to you like subsidized college, tax breaks, trade training, job quotas....and you still don't take advantage and complain about how you are the way you are because of the white mans system.......puh--leeze!!!

By you I don't mean "you" specifically.....just any Native.


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: chemkid]
    #1133811 - 12/11/02 11:40 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I see.

Got a BIA card? It's unlikely you CAN get one unless your ancestors walked the Trail of Tears and survived the journey. Did they? And did you use those benefits?

This is exactly what I am talking about.

And why is it that the damn wasicus think their way of life is the fucking way to live?

Maybe we don't want a "college degree" from the white man's school. This is exactly what I mean.

Comments and animus not directed at you.

Do you have a card? I was denied. No benefits for me. So sorry.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: ]
    #1133828 - 12/11/02 11:48 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Naw...no card. I don't think I have enough blood in me to be considered. My cousins do though, their father was also native.

I agree, no one said that Natives should have to live by white man standards or receive a white mans education

-------------BUT---------------

If you sit on the res. with a bottle of booze and complain about the lack of opportunity and how the system keeps you down.....I contend that aside from nepotism for white people, Natives have more opportunity available to them than any other grouping of people in America.


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: chemkid]
    #1133831 - 12/11/02 11:50 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

On a side note........you scared the piss out of me by using the "F' word.

I am not used to you being so forceful in your opinions. Evidently we have struck oil in your field of passion.


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: chemkid]
    #1133840 - 12/11/02 11:57 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

You have just enough, 1/4.  You should be entitled to a whole bunch of rights except for one thing.  Your ancestors had to have walked the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma and then signed the registry proving they survived.  If you haven't read The Trail of Tears you should.  It's about our people.  Of maybe we should just do am Inipi ceremony together. :wink:  I have medicine for what ails you.

If you can prove that much blood you are ALSO entitled to a membership in the Native American church.  I am sure you know what that means. :wink:

I understand what you are saying about bitchin' about the wasicus keeping you down without doing anything about it.

------------BUT------------------

If you are traditional you have no way to elevate yourself and live as you were meant to live.  That's my point. 


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Anonymous

Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: chemkid]
    #1133843 - 12/12/02 12:01 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Yes, you did hit the oil well.  I'm part Scot and part Cherokee.  A powerful mixture!

Damn proud of both!

Plus I spent a lot of time with the Pine Ridge Lakota Sioux.  My bark is much worse than my bite.

Mitakuye Oyasin, Kola


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: ]
    #1133849 - 12/12/02 12:04 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Oh, I see what you are saying now. Yes, I guess I didn't think of that aspect of it. It would be hard to live the traditional (true) Native way in today's America. I'll ponder on this some more. Thanks for the insight.

As for the Church, I don't think they would want me :-) I am VERY white looking. The only thing about me that gives my Native heritage away is my high cheekbones. Maybe I could be a runway model :-)



--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: chemkid]
    #1133851 - 12/12/02 12:06 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

One last comment on the cheekbones.  I have the same and it got me into places where no white man was invited.  We know each other. :wink:


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: ]
    #1133852 - 12/12/02 12:08 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

That is truely freaky....I am also Scot. That is the roots that I claim. My mother raised me with Scotish heritage.

Clan Grant :Craig Elachie

I know very little of my Native heritage, my father's side (absentee father).


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: the real story behind native indian casino's [Re: chemkid]
    #1133853 - 12/12/02 12:11 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

You couldn't have better blood in my view.

Clan Stewart  Sept Boyd

It's hell drinking though. :wink:

One side wants it and the other side can't handle it.  :grin:


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