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Offlineweeezlus
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Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 1
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Help on Guiding Trips?
    #682363 - 06/16/02 05:40 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Hey kids,

Maybe some of you veterans have some ideas on this one. I've been experimenting with different drugs for a while and have been fairly successful in guiding different types of drug trips.

Now, I'm not talking guiding in the sense of changing or altering someone's drug experience, but guiding as a way of helping people to become more aware of how a drug is affecting them, thus enabling them to use that awareness as a tool in their lives.

I'm sure we've all seen our fair share of people who don't take drugs seriously. I feel like most people just don't understand the power that drugs have for self-discovery. I am interested in finding ways to show this to people.

I have developed a "guided trip" for ecstasy and marijuana that both do wonderful things. For example, I have taken people who have done marijuana scores of times and shown them something new by getting them to move into a state where they were sensing energy and taking it seriously.

Unfortunately, I haven't found a method that works well for guiding someone on a mushroom trip. The basic formula seems to be helping the person to understand the brain as a filter to awareness and trying to show them what happens when that filter gets removed.

The trouble seems to be that when you go far "out" in a shroom trip, things get very subjective. At that point, I have a hard time communicating with the other person because even though what we are experiencing may be similar, it's hard to open a bridge of communication because the interpretation of the experience is so different.

I am wondering if, at this point, some kind of action or exercise would be more helpful than a lecture. Any ideas on guiding?


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OfflineInDiCaToRgReEn
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Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 47
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Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: weeezlus]
    #682801 - 06/16/02 08:46 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

i have become a " master" with marijuana but i found that once understood the drug it took the pop out of it or the wondering where am i going next and i think thats the best part, not knowing.


--------------------
"oh to be a kid again, not a worry in the world except mybe the lack of bubbles in the bath tub"


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Offline11polakie11
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Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 112
Loc: G-Ville FLA
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: weeezlus]
    #682889 - 06/16/02 09:58 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

well consider the nature of the trip, its not like pot or X in which the person retains a large portion of the "filter of the brain" - personall I know nothing of pot and i havne't talked to people about it, but i do have friends that do X and i've read up on it (and yes, i don't do it) and i assume you have too, so you know that it is mildly trippy at best and not really something that would take a person "so far out". But i think for something where reality warps and the filters of sensorial perceptions and interpretations are lifted so must the communicatoin. Perhaps instead of verbalizing a personal, intrinsically therapeutic journey, images or sounds are used, completey abstract and down to the point, symbolism. MAybe a memorize ritual? something learned and cemented in all parts of a persons conscioussness so that even when they are tripping it remains, though I am not sure if that would work if the trip were really far out. good luck and safeness on your journies.

adam


--------------------
-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_


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InvisibleBoppity604
Stranger
Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1,056
Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: 11polakie11]
    #683140 - 06/17/02 06:16 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Hey there!

>>Perhaps instead of verbalizing a personal, intrinsically therapeutic journey, images or sounds are used, completey abstract and down to the point, symbolism.

This already exists in the Goa community. Being a trance dancer LONG before I knew what drugs were let alone could get access to them I've always been into sober tripping first. Trance dancing is a wonderful way to safely experience ego shift and ego loss. And your comment above makes me want to share "the look" with everyone.

As a DJ when I'm at a Goa party the greatest reward for all my efforts, time and money is when I get "the look." In the Goa community most people have a good understanding of what trance dancing as well as altered consciousness is. There are plenty of people who take psychedelics at Goa parties but there are plenty who don't. The whole point is to be able to lift our current veil of perception and to enter a higher state of mind: trance dancing is one vehicle for such transendence.

The DJ and the Producer both act as guides into your mind when trance dancing. The producers get all the credit for the power of the music that is moving you and putting you into a trance...the only credit a DJ can take is how well she or he mixes the tracks together and sustains a trance space (energy levels within songs that you sustain throughout your mixes and this is the real "pulse" of the set's life and energy). Once you have dancers falling into trances...one bad mix or sudden change of energy in the music is all it takes to bring them RIGHT back to baseline...that's bad...that's worse than bad.

For me...to see even one person fall into trance is my "indicator" that my programming is working and I just keep reading off the crowd's reactions to the music. After about an hour of people being in a trance is when I really "let it flow" and this is usually when "the look" begins to appear. There really is no way to verbally describe the look...but here's my best attempt:

In the depths of their euphoria...the trance dancers now having hightened their consciousness by entering into a single-point state of mind through both the dance and music looks up at me (the DJ) and their eyes simply meet mine and do not wander from me. The look on their face is one of COMPLETE understanding and contentment. The look is one of complete honesty and thankfulness. No words are necessary because the look is my way of seeing that their minds are "getting it" and have entered into the specific trance space I am creating and sustaining with the music. I'm always flattered when people thank me after a set or give me compliments in email after receiving one of my mix CDs...but the GREATEST compliment any trance artist or dj can receive, in my opinion, is "the look." It's absolutely wonderful to know you've touched somebody SO deeply that it even transcends any purely physical gratification. Not a bad way to spend an evening, eh?

Love & Light,

Boppity

PS - For people who don't know..Goa parties are a lot different than "raves" one of these distinctions is that most DJ sets at a goa party will be around 2-4 hours long. In my opinion an ideal one-night party would consist of 2 DJs, 3 tops. When dealing with trances and trance spaces, the longer the better...because the longer you can sustain a trance, the deeper the trance dancer/meditator can "go with it." My average set when I headline is a minimum of three hours.


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InvisibleBoppity604
Stranger
Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1,056
Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: Boppity604]
    #683147 - 06/17/02 06:23 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Oh yeah..for those who might not be clear what I mean when I say trance dancing...let me just give you several examples of different trances I've witnessed at gigs:

There is dancing to simply enjoy the physical sensation of dancing...like bopping at clubs/raves...and this is by no means bad...it's obviously a lot of fun! hehe But then you get trance dancing...these are all examples of trance dancing:

1. A person sustaining yogic postures throughout the course of the evening.

2. A meditator simply rocking back and forth in place all night in front of the speakers.

3. Liquid dancers performing the same routine of moves over and over and over and over and over and over...etc.

4. People standing in place with their arms stretched high above them and simply doing "figure 8's" with their arms while rocking their body to and fro to the constant 4/4 beats.

5. Ecstatic spinning in place for hours on end without being dizzy or falling down.

These are just some examples of how people can utilize dance to enter a trance...they're by no means the only methods out there. Just some of the beautiful trances I've personally witnessed. My very first type of trance i ever entered into was when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade. I was in my bedroom and just started spinning in place while watching the patterns of colors in the rug under my feet dancing and swirl...after a while I lost all contact with my sense of "me"...I just simply entered a mental continuum of color, sound and spinning. Was a great moment in my life. Yes, I'm weird...but I love my weirdness.

Love & Light,

Boppity


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
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Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: Boppity604]
    #683158 - 06/17/02 06:29 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

That entire experience sounds totally amazing......from all perspectives........bit of a naive question here but here goes (I waz gonna say here GOA'S but thought the better of it )would you have any recommendations on how one might go about locating GOA events in or around their city?(Toronto in this particualar instance)


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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InvisibleBoppity604
Stranger
Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1,056
Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #683172 - 06/17/02 06:37 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

There are great Goa parties in Toronto ALL the time!

I will dig up some links for you and send them to you in a PM later this afternoon...til then check out two things:

http://www.psynews.org/ (they have a good database of goa parties all over the world)

and in the Trip Tips Forum look for my post entitled "Music and Other Links" which has TONS of goa-related links for you to check out.

I'll dig up the Toronto-specific promoters info for you and get back to you later today.

Love & Light,

Boppity


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
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Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: Boppity604]
    #683174 - 06/17/02 06:40 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Thankyou very much in advance for your time(which doesn't REALLY exist in your own personal belief system ) and most especially your NRG


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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InvisibleBoppity604
Stranger
Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1,056
Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #683178 - 06/17/02 06:42 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Not a problem...it's all about sharing a good thing.

Plus since I'm unemployed at the moment I like having something to do til my agent gets me a new assignment! hehe

Love & Light,

Boppity


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OfflineLOBO
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Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: weeezlus]
    #683321 - 06/17/02 08:35 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps a low level trip could be guided, but at higher levels you will run into problems, un less you are trying to calm down some one that is freaking out, but I gather that you are referring to a self-discovery guidance, and here is were I think the problem is, due to my own experience.
Several times before tripping a set my self with several tasks that I want to accomplish with the experience, like for example, to study a certain problem etc. And it all sounds like a good plan, but when I beguine to trip my state of consciousness changes so much, in an expanding way that all other stuff seems very trivial and infantile, and I beguine to laugh at how stupid I was before like viewing things from above, so trying to guide some one, (if you are in a normal state) is a blind man guiding one that can see, you will have to be a master of the shroomm realm, to give it a word, and as far as I can tell that world has no limit, it takes you every time into a different spin, the only guidance that I could see beneficial and is not really a guidance is to take care of all the physical needs of the tripper, and if you see the subject in some type of trance or ecstasy to remind him to take mental pictures of what he is living, so he can recall the experience when he comes back.
My two cents.


--------------------


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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: weeezlus]
    #683457 - 06/17/02 10:03 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I?ve initiated 3 friends into the shroom world in the last few months. I kind of have a pattern at this point. I?ve guided a total of 6 people and I?ve shroomed about 25 times myself. I usually take about 3.5 to 4 grams. Some may say this is kind of high, but I?ve never had a problem and I am always in an area I am familiar with.

It is usually just myself and the other person. Days before, I ask the person to read the psychedelic experience guide located on this website. I also spend sometime talking to them about what to expect, the filter analogy, how it usually begins, and so forth (this is not really formal, it just kind of happens at some point). I also touch on the possibility of a bad trip (this is usually a mild concern for them anyway), give them my view on how a trip can go bad and what to do to get out of it. Above all, however, I emphasize the unique, awesome adventure we are going to have- it?s not something to fear but something to look forward to!

Similar to many others at this website, I think nature is the fucking coolest tripping environment. From my experience, this is where I get the most personal growth while tripping- this kind of Zen tranquility and comfort with myself. This is what I want others to appreciate in shrooms so it is around this idea that I design the following experience:

Leave apartment around 5 or 6 and walk to a cool nature park about a mile away. During this walk, be aware the person is probably nervous- a time for small talk or what to expect during the beginning phase. I think it is important for the guide to maintain a relaxed attitude at this point to facilitate that kind of atmosphere. Get to the park, walk around, hike, sit, talk- whatever you feel like doing- pretty unplanned. I really try to be mindful of the anxiety level of the other person. As a trip guide this is always important. One thing I do plan is timing hiking to the top of this large hill with the shrooming peak and the sunset- absolutely awesome each time. This is my favorite part of the trip. I do also think it is cool to let the person experience some of the other aspects of shrooms so I try to head back after 2 ? hours or so. The walk back during twilight is always cool. It?s important to understand if they are going to be comfortable passing by someone who is not shrooming whom they do not know. Get back to the apartment and listen to some cool music, eat some good shrooming food (oranges, strawberries). Talking about the trip later on is always awesome. I love hearing a person?s take on the experience. Especially after their first time!

So that?s my general outline. I inevitably tie into the conversation Zen and some other ideas that become a little more profound after or during shrooming.


--------------------
Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: Boppity604]
    #683534 - 06/17/02 10:50 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

WoW.... Boppity! The way that you described that made it sound amazing! I would really like to get into that more!
I can imagine it must be a very spiritual thing.
Thanks for sharing!!


--------------------
Namaste.


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OfflineStrangeDays
Bob
Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 160
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Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: weeezlus]
    #684054 - 06/17/02 03:43 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: weeezlus]
    #684437 - 06/17/02 06:08 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

For 30 years I've done that which was done for me: I've handed a tripper a copy of BE HERE NOW opened to page 1 of the brown section. Candlelight beats any electric light for spiritual ambiance; Prasad, Nag Champa or Blue Pearl sandalwood incense [my own order of preference]; and 'ambiant' background music - low - not to detract from the visual learning of the text. Music could be trance, new age , classical, but I grew up on Ravi Shankar and Grateful Dead's 'Dark Star' [for example].

I'm still finding things in that book, and still consulting its bibliography for reading that can change one's life. Sometimes it's good to listen to one's elders. Try it.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #684459 - 06/17/02 06:14 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Dark star and echoes from the meddle album were two of my favorite trip pieces.....I think their spatial nature prepared me for ECM neo classical jazz fusion(Terje Rypdal, Eberhard Weber etc)....which accompanied me on many an inner excursion....I still get a rush when I look at the cover of BHN.......one of the first "eastern" books many of us were exposed to back in those wild n' wacky 70's


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



Edited by FreakQlibrium (06/18/02 02:57 AM)


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Offline11polakie11
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Registered: 06/14/02
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Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #686208 - 06/18/02 02:30 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

hehe, the irony of things
sitting on a counter top of mine is be here now, which i got from my mom and which I never associated with tripping, but read completely sober and had such insightful experiences with..

adam


--------------------
-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_


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OfflineGRTUD
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Registered: 01/31/01
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Re: Help on Guiding Trips? [Re: weeezlus]
    #686618 - 06/18/02 06:58 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, yes, Be Here Now for sure! Great book and The Dead, always The Dead. Dark Star is good and Ripple is The Message we are all talking about, in a song. I love Europe '72 for tripping, as well (Ripple is not on that collection). I also like Peter Gabriel's Secret World Live, especially the second CD. I have some friends that just can't connect with The Dead and that has worked well. I want to be a "guide" in the worst way, as well. Jerry Garcia was so good at this! I am so bummed that He's Gone. Oh well, that is a subject for another thread but I can say I'm glad for The Shroomery and these chances to "connect".


--------------------
"New shit has come to light..."


Edited by GRTUD (06/18/02 07:00 PM)


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