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Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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An Investment With No Return
    #6648365 -

I am currently attending a conference to further myself in my chosen profession. I am doing it to further my knowledge in technology which is my field. This required that I travel to a large city in my state and stay in a hotel near the convention hall. There also seems to be a social requirement that is a ticket punch of sorts. That requirement means that I associate with a large number of people that work in different areas of this field and at least pretend to build fellowship with these individuals. The accouterments and primary social symbols of this group are laptop computers and cell phones followed by iPods, large USB flash drives, and clothing as secondary accouterments for assuring social status in this hierarchy. I have noticed that most of these people spend an inordinate amount of time conversing with others on their cell phones. I know many that spend as much as 20 minutes of every hour on their cell phones. My close proximity to so many of these types in the last few days has brought many of their habits into sharp focus. Their speech, dress, mannerisms, and social behaviors indicate that a large investment of faith has been made on their parts in order to attain status and social rank. They have come to identify their sense of self with these symbols. They require the gear, clothing, and socializing...with the required accompanying drama, lies, and control conflicts...in order to know who they are and where they fit in. The hidden cost...or total cost of ownership as they say in tech circles is the complete loss of freedom and the belief in an illusion of stability and predictability that does not hold up under scrutiny, leaving them vulnerable to the tides of change and the ravages of time. It is an investment with virtually no return, yet these people...and everyone else...including you and me make this sort of investment time and again.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (03/08/07 05:06 PM)

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6648405 -

you call it investment

I call it reaching out for mamma's skirt, and holding on in the face of all the strangers;

try to make the children feel at ease;
maybe offer lollypops and wink occasionally.

conventions hurt my feet and I resent leaving my heely's at home, such huge and lovely glidable floors.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6648438 -

redgreenvines said:
try to make the children feel at ease;
maybe offer lollypops and wink occasionally.




:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6648824 -

I think that what you've noticed is not limited to the conference, but is a widespread phenomenon throughout the western-consumerist society. People invest heavily in speech, dress, mannerism and social behaviors in order to attain status, social rank and probably most important of all - to impress the opposite sex.

These 'gains' are the return of their investment. If the return is a good one, probably depends on the nature of an individual. To a lot of people here, who carry a spiritual and philosophical inclination, it probably isn't. But to some other people who don't share this kind of inclination it just might be.

You for instance although I assume not so heavily invested through these avenues, have invested too - you invested your time and life energy in order to be there, to further your knowledge in your field of expertise in order to achieve a higher income or a better position in the industry - I assume.

I don't think the hidden cost of this is a total loss of freedom - if it is done with awareness. To choose what we value, what we hope to gain and to invest our time and energy into it.

The only problem I see here is the identification with the symbols. The advertisement industry is trying to convince us we can experience what ever we wish and become what ever we wish - if we only buy a particular product or a service. "Want to get laid? Buy XXX car." "Want to be unique and independent? Buy a Mac." "Want to be healthy? Buy a bunch of multivitamins, exercise machines and videos." You don't have to do anything anymore because you can buy 'it'! But you don't really buy It. You buy a symbol of it, a mere imitation of the real thing. You're no more unique if you own a Mac or no computer at all. It's all a big myth. And we're buying it.


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6649255 -

As Mr. Natural sez: "Twas ever thus"

"Turn on, tune in and drop out.":mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Icelander]
    #6649301 -

They should change the name of this forum to Psychedelic Pragmatism & Life Coaching.  Good thread. :thumbup:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #6649413 -

When I said:
Quote:
yet these people...and everyone else...including you and me


I intended to say that this behavior was the norm. It is just that I was made acutely aware of this syndrome by the abundance of people here where I am now.

My point was that none of this behavior is done with awareness. It is unconscious behavior, and it robs one of freedom because unconsciousness removes choice.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6649414 -

Quote:
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes. If there is not a new man, how can the new clothes be made to fit? If you have any enterprise before you, try it in your old clothes. All men want, not something to do with, but something to do, or rather something to be.

Henry David Thoreau


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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Veritas]
    #6649533 -

They're making ego investment and they get ego return. By investing in things outside of oursleves we will only get external returns. And this does cause a sort of blindness; for all the change seen is that which has taken place outside the individual, and by this they measure their their personal growth and progress.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Grok]
    #6649614 -

conventions are weird
but you do get out of your regular routine a bit.
i like an opportunity to have my own hotel room;
then I take off my clothes and crack open the salvia.
an hour later I am explaining the most bizarre aspects of software to bankers or military people from all parts of the world.
naturally this helps.
somehow, I hope.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6649835 -

I am afraid to "crack open the salvia" and then deal with this nonsense. It is funny enough as is....it doesn't need help. I know that taking drugs before deciding the future of the education of the children of America is the right thing to do....but I just don't have the nerve right now.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6649847 -

Good post. You've made some well-founded observations of something that is ever present in our society. Remember though, the purpose of a convention is to gather a particular audience, so whatever audience that is, it's going to be highly saturated with people of similar character.

I'm close to finishing my 'education' in an art/technical school, and I can't even begin to tell you how bad the cliques are (and I thought high-school was bad...). I've passed through a lot of them in my earlier years, just visiting without any interest of ever 'converting'. Most of them seemed manufactured, and discerning just how deep-in the members are is impossible. You wonder if they even chose to like the things they like, or if somebody at some point just told them something was cool and they believed it so they hopped on board. Not only do they wear certain clothes and buy certain things, but they make it a point to advertise the fact.

Well it's all been said before so I might as well stop adding redundancy. Either way, fuck those animals.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: elbisivni]
    #6650129 -

You wonder if they even chose to like the things they like,

Indeed this seems to be the case. Culture determines whether it will be pepsi or coke, and informs you your choice has made you an individual that goes his own way. Sleeping sheepies awakening at the moment of death. We all act this way to one degree or another. To wake up is a worthwhile task if you ask me. Who knows what's out there.:mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6650161 -

The whole of this universe is a bank account that we invest in with our actions. We will always reap what we sow eventually, making withdrawals here and there.

Personally i wish to bankrupt my karmic bank account asap, so i can choose and not be blown in the wind. I wish others to have that same aspiration.


--------------------

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Icelander]
    #6651063 -

I know that I am being slightly judgmental, but these issues have moved to the front of my thoughts lately. I am becoming increasingly aware of my unconscious activities, and I am trying to ferret them out. I am evaluating how to deal with the programs I have and how I should choose to maintain or discard them while remaining pragmatic and non-judgemental as much as possible.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: An Investment With No Return [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6651922 -

  I guess you see it too. :heart:

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL0715599120070307


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (03/09/07 06:17 AM)

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Re: An Investment With No Return [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6652081 -

Quote:
Baudrillard argued that mass media and modern consumerist society had built up such a complex structure of symbols and simulated experience that it was no longer possible to comprehend reality as it might actually exist.


I second that. Thanks for the link Markos. I've never heard of this guy before, but I can't wait to get my hands on some of his writing.


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."

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Re: An I investment With No Return [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6652764 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
I know that I am being slightly judgmental, but these issues have moved to the front of my thoughts lately. I am becoming increasingly aware of my unconscious activities, and I am trying to ferret them out. I am evaluating how to deal with the programs I have and how I should choose to maintain or discard them while remaining pragmatic and non-judgemental as much as possible.


Might I suggest "Practical Work on Self" by E.J. Gold If you read this let me know as I would like to work on it with you. I think it's just what you're looking for.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: An Investment With No Return [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #6653576 -

In the first Matrix film, Neo stashed his illegal software in a hollowed out book of Baudrillard. His philosophy apparently figured prominently in The Matrix trilogy. I too want to read his work now.

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Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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