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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Maverick]
    #6613920 -

we think it'd suck because we're now alive.

but once one has zapped it won't matter whether it sucks or not.

it just is. :mushroom2:

:egyptian:


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6616665 -

As for the proof of heaven and hell. Logically they both don't exist.

Example: You cant define something without something opposite of it.

Take up and down if you just had up it wouldn't be up it would just be.

Black and white ect. ect.

Now we get to heaven and hell both are worlds/dimensions, what ever you want to call it, that are separate from each other. So in each place only good and bad exist separately. This cant be because you need the opposite to define it. So heaven and hell are really either just one place or don't exist.

My logic is only based on this worlds and therefore might not apply to the spirit world.

Although based off salvia trips i feel that 1 thing existing is possible but since i'm using logic based on this world again it might not be useful in the spirit world.


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"The dream is dreaming itself"--Kalahari Bushmen

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Salvia_Antics]
    #6616783 -

by your logic, i would say that heaven and hell both exist IN our physical world. outside. right now. i agree with your logic of relativity, but im not religious and dont believe in heaven in teh sky or a hell underground.

but it is interesting to wonder what the hell happens when we die? our bodies are made of of millions of living cells. all individuals. what makes them all stop growing just because our conciousness isnt there anymore? or backwards. what makes are conciousness not there anymore just because they stop growing.

i kinda have a feeling of energy coming in and out of our physical world. as was discussed earlier in this thread, our physical world just is. but all life energy was before and after it's physical existence. it all goes back to the same place, and that is the immortality of life's energy.


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Salvia_Antics]
    #6616961 -

Quote:
Now we get to heaven and hell both are worlds/dimensions, what ever you want to call it, that are separate from each other. So in each place only good and bad exist separately. This cant be because you need the opposite to define it. So heaven and hell are really either just one place or don't exist.


I agree with your logic that both places cannot be completely seperate and this is how I resolve it: The afterlife can be seen as a vast sphere with Heaven occupying one end of the pole and Hell on the other. In between are a spectrum of states of being including dream states and limbo.

I differ from orthodox religion because I believe departed spirits can migrate from one realm to another (within limits) based upon their acts while living and their mindset in the afterlife.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: zorbman]
    #6617536 -

well here is why heaven and hell do not exist.

humans made it up. we created "heaven" and "hell" and "purgatory" and all that shit.

so when we die we get judged at the gates of heaven? bullshit.

everything the church says is fuckin ridiculous and they push that shit so hard like its true

nothing fails like prayer :wink:

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: entheodome]
    #6617551 -

entheodome said:
we have also been here way longer than 200 years,you probably made a typo?




and no, my point was that 200 years ago in the year 1807, not one human on this earth was alive

once the brain is dead or destroyed, its the same as before it even existed (my opinion, i know)

life is a miracle we gotta enjoy this shit :mushroom2:

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Legend9123]
    #6617786 -

On one of my recent trips I began discussing the existence of god with my partners. Though these ideas were so much more profound at the time they have molded me very well into my current ideas of life. Humans are exceptional, if not for any other reason than but our rationality. It seems so incredibly unlikely if there were to be no kind of extra spirit behind all of this life. Why would we be able to create huge structures and break down our anatomy into the genes while every other inhabitants on the planet lives purely for survival.
We are living in a world that is increasingly more mechanical. In almost every aspect of life we have some kind of computer or machine to help us do whatever we desire. These machines were built to work, not to think. Therefore they have no capacity to consider how it was made and why it is doing what its doing. Humans are the same way, though we were built with that capacity, but we lack one cruical fact. What is our maker? Just like these machines they arent able to computer how we are created, why should we be able to? Whoever, or whatever had an effect on the human race to make it special, and they certainly won't reveal the secret of their ways will they? What would happen if a God were to come and tell us every secret of the universe and anything we pondered, our lives would begin to decline in value. With everything we have no reason to prosper, we begin to live purely for survival.

But I'm just high, I'd like to hear return input.


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"It is only once we've lost everything, we are free to do anything."


Everything I think, say, or do is fictional

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Drise]
    #6617823 -

yeah but if we have a maker, then the maker should have a maker

and that maker needs a maker, and a maker to make that maker

its a never ending question. thats why there is no maker.

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Salvia_Antics]
    #6617865 -

Quote:
So heaven and hell are really either just one place


That's actually my take on it. I think that both are a place(or state of existence) where you are confronted with God's presence, and your disposition towards that presence determines if it is heaven or hell for you. In being confronted with God, one is confronted with their own karma.


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6617872 -

SpicyTunaRoll said:
nothing fails like prayer :wink:


Says you.  My prayers have worked so well, it's scary.  I'm actually careful about what I pray for these days, because my prayers often get answered in rather unexpected ways.


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6617991 -

SpicyTunaRoll said:
yeah but if we have a maker, then the maker should have a maker

and that maker needs a maker, and a maker to make that maker

its a never ending question. thats why there is no maker.


Following that logic there is no universe.


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Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither.
-Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Legend9123]
    #6617998 -

Legend9123 said:
SpicyTunaRoll said:
yeah but if we have a maker, then the maker should have a maker

and that maker needs a maker, and a maker to make that maker

its a never ending question. thats why there is no maker.


Following that logic there is no universe.


The universe is superstitious nonsense.  :tongue:


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6618084 -

why spend your life worrying about what happens after you die. it doesn't affect you right now. and there is no way of knowing while you're alive and living through experiences. everyone has their own ideas about what happens. and no one is necessarily right or wrong.

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: stoneage]
    #6618293 -

who said anything about worrying?

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Atheist]
    #6619392 -

Everything that we currently know in this world is because we're so fascinated with ourselves. Our entire society is focused around figuring the self out. Entire professions dedicated to it.
Suppose there is no after life, then we while we are here we must do the most with what we have, its our time to shine. If we do have an afterlife and we go there when we die, then this life is pointless, but life cant be pointless, so religions set up rules to follow to get into the afterlife, life seems to be a test to the afterlife, which seems to be the more important life.


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"It is only once we've lost everything, we are free to do anything."


Everything I think, say, or do is fictional

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6619470 -

Silversoul said:
Legend9123 said:
SpicyTunaRoll said:
yeah but if we have a maker, then the maker should have a maker

and that maker needs a maker, and a maker to make that maker

its a never ending question. thats why there is no maker.


Following that logic there is no universe.


The universe is superstitious nonsense.  :tongue:


If you say so...:crazy2:


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Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither.
-Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Drise]
    #6620777 -

Drise said:
Why would we be able to create huge structures and break down our anatomy into the genes while every other inhabitants on the planet lives purely for survival.


We are able to do this because we don't have to worry about that kind of survival any more. And when you don't have to worry about survival you get bored and start thinking about that kind of stuff.


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"The dream is dreaming itself"--Kalahari Bushmen

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Salvia_Antics]
    #6620810 -

I know that my consciousness is eternal as I remember most of my past lives, as well as the source of All-That-Is.
And as everything is one, at the source.
Material life is an incarnation of soul, a short duration trip in a physical realm for which to gain wisdom through experience.. experience that cannot be gained in the spiritual realm. Wisdom for the soul. Wisdom leads to evolution, the universe feeds on perpetual evolution. Physical incarnations into a material existance are only temporary. The soul is forever.
Everyone incarnates by choice. No one is forced. Free will is a universal law.
Life is a very precious thing indeed. But 'death' is certainly not the end. Just a new beginning.
All is as a cycle. More like a spiral... but certainly a cycle nonetheless.
You have a choice, everyone has a choice. Ride the spiral.. or become one with the source. Either way it's a hell of a ride. Keep going.
Heaven and hell are merely archetypes. They don't exist in 'reality'.
Here on Earth in the 3rd dimension (at the present moment).. we have access to both Heaven and Hell, they are merely states of mind. I've been in both, in this life.
You create your own "reality" through your thoughts. Thoughts create reality. The universe began as a thought, as did our souls.
I fear not death. Yet I live in the present.

Life is the ultimate college for the soul. It presents many trials and challenges, while being "cut off" from the source. You lose your spiritual sight when you descend into such a low dimension... the object being to gain wisdom through experience and work your way back. It can be the most enriching and rewarding thing if you allow it. The point being to learn from, master, and trascend these material lessons.. in order to move on to the next level. One cannot walk until they have first learned to crawl.

The first thing you learn as a spiritually aware being is that we as humans, as individual souls, are 100% responsible for our own actions.

To tell me I will be worm food and nothing more when I die, I laugh heartily at such a proclamation. I have died many times. I know there is much more than what we can percieve with our limited tunnel vision. Claiming death is the ultimate end is about as informed as saying a tunnel ends in a brick wall because you can only see darkness in it from the outside. Yes, my body will be worm food, and rightfully so... back to the Earth from whence it came... but my soul/consciousness/spiritual energy will live on, about that I have no doubt.. I know where home is.

As for life, that is my main concern. I intend to fully live life to its fullest extent, and that means every day. My purpose in life, even though I have sidetracked myself many times, is to help others in every way I can.


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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Salvia_Antics]
    #6620916 -

Salvia_Antics said:
Drise said:
Why would we be able to create huge structures and break down our anatomy into the genes while every other inhabitants on the planet lives purely for survival.


We are able to do this because we don't have to worry about that kind of survival any more. And when you don't have to worry about survival you get bored and start thinking about that kind of stuff.



I know this. But we are human because we can think beyond that. I dont believe the animals we domesticated will ever amount to us. I see no dogs trying to build fire. Its that extra spark that gives us life. Our search for that spark is what guides our existence.


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"It is only once we've lost everything, we are free to do anything."


Everything I think, say, or do is fictional

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Re: Does this completely disprove an afterlife? [Re: Drise]
    #6620918 -

Humans are quite different from animals.
We have vast amounts of untapped potential.


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