Kid_Orgo said:

And in the absence of evidence, we can only accept (to some degree) what we perceive.

I perceive being a meat machine, and hopefully becoming nothing again at some point.

If you perceive some kind of eternal life, more power to you.

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That was what I was getting to.  There is no proof either way.  We all live, we all die, and what we choose to believe is simply that, a choice. 

Kid_Orgo said:

Legend9123 said:

Kid_Orgo said:

I don't see how that's universally expressed, or even expressed at all by any facet of nature.

If you're talking about the connections between all things, past present, future, materially, and in terms of cause and effect, that doesn't really imply that there's anything special about human consciousness.

If we are in fact conscious, then what does the evidence of interconnectedness tell you about permanence?

Big bang to the final heat death or re-collapse of the universe, nothing's permanent.

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Not really on topic, but since you brought up the lifecycle of the universe: Do you believe that there was indeed nothingness before the big bang? Also, where have you found evidence that the universe is collapsing? I have found evidence that in fact the universe is expanding at an ever increasing rate. Well, not I personally found the data, but here you go. [url=http://anonym.to/?[url=http://anonym.to/?[url=http://anonym.to/?http://www.lbl.gov/supernova/]http://www.lbl.gov/supernova/[/url]]http://www.lbl.gov/supernova/[/url]]http://www.lbl.gov/supernova/[/url]

Finally, would this not be better suited in a forum other than the pub?

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You got me on that one.

I didn't know which was the accepted theory,

So I said heat death of the universe in the case of an ever expanding universe, and crunch in the other case.

I don't really know what happens if the universe reaches equilibrium (neither expanding or contracting)


As far as before the big bang goes, I mean, it transcends our ability to think about it. "Nothingness" is too much human thought to put on it. A singularity means nothing we know applies.

Personally, I'm thinking that this whole universe is just some kind of cosmic burp, or some kind of cycle, and in any case, we'll probably be extinct long before we figure it out.



EDIT: and as far as being appropriate for the Pub, I have conversations like this in real pubs. I think it's just fine. If shroomism hasn't moved it yet, I'll let a sleeping dog lie.

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Kid_Orgo said:

If, indeed, we really "choose" anything at all.

Yeah.

I'm with you, I think.

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Haha this is confusing to everyone.  It is simply an unknown.  I am glad that there are those of us here at the shroomery who like to discuss such matters though.

SpicyTunaRoll said:

yeah but anything after death wouldnt make sense.

this is life dude, why would we get more than this?

when its over its fucking done.

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SpicyTunaRoll said:

i just believe

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Bingo

SpicyTunaRoll said:

Okay I'll keep this simple and short.
200 years ago we were nothing. We did not exist. Our brains were not created yet.
We weren't really dead, we were just nothing. We did not exist yet.

When we are born and as we develop, we live our lives through all of our senses.
Our senses are used by the brain, everything we see and experience is in the brain.

So before we were born, there was nothing. Then once our brains were created, we have life.
If I was to take a shotgun and blow my brains out,
wouldnt it be EXACTLY the same thing as before I was born?

Its not a bad thing (no afterlife,) its just nothing.

Nothing is good. Its like sleeping, except for forever. We won't even know.

Makes sense?

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meams said:

SpicyTunaRoll said:

yeah but anything after death wouldnt make sense.

this is life dude, why would we get more than this?

when its over its fucking done.

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wow you're totally right. You're 300 words total throughout your postst have totally convinced me that there is no afterlife. Despite the fact that far greater minds than yours have pondered this very topic for a majority of their existence and came up with nothing - doesn't at all discredit the rambling thought you posted on here.

I'm equally as ignorant as you - i can't believe there is any possible way that there ISN'T anything after life on this earth.

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Legend9123 said:

Scientifically:

Occam's Razor(paraphrased) - "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."
Going by this scientific principle we should choose the theory that is most simplistic, the theory of nothingness before and after death.


My opinion:

While we should accept the most simply explanation possible it is difficult to do so. We have been given a wonderful gift, whether it be by evolutionary means or a higher entity; we have consciousness. We have the ability to make thoughtful choices and to experience actual happiness and sadness. Personally it just seems like an awful waste to think that our essence ceases to exist after death.

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Noviseer said:

Legend9123 said:

Scientifically:

Occam's Razor(paraphrased) - "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."
Going by this scientific principle we should choose the theory that is most simplistic, the theory of nothingness before and after death.


My opinion:

While we should accept the most simply explanation possible it is difficult to do so. We have been given a wonderful gift, whether it be by evolutionary means or a higher entity; we have consciousness. We have the ability to make thoughtful choices and to experience actual happiness and sadness. Personally it just seems like an awful waste to think that our essence ceases to exist after death.

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You make a good point.

I think its interesting to note that Occam's Razor acted as a fundamental influence on "science," the very philosophy that seems to have spawned SpicyTunaRoll's contention.

One way humans think their way past the afterlife problem is to play with the flow of time, or of their inherent existence at ALL. Eastern religions, for example, will tell you that your current sense of separateness is ALREADY false; before death, you're already "nothing," so you can't become any more of a void. Or, put another way, you're already EVERYTHING, your separateness is an illusion. So you don't lose anything when you die, you never were that ape body in the first place.

As for me--my opinion fluctuates back and forth between those two poles over the years.

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HB said:

As you fade out of one reality, so do you fade back in to a new reality. Not heaven or hell ... but rather, the next evolution of existence. Ad infinitum.

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