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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6568435 -

AlteredAgain said:
well, perhaps we shouldn't be helping to create a need for an insurgency through our military presence..

we have matters in our own country that could use some careful attention.

:egyptian:


Well said. Who are we to be another country's domestic heroes when we can't even solve our own domestic problems? Our education system is in shambles, yet most of you would rather see money go into a never ending war rather than educating the masses to stop the next war.


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6568453 -

SirTripAlot said:
Holy shit! Stop the press!



......wait a sec, this is old fucking news! Bush is a little late in the game on this one. Iran has been behind the insurgency for at least 2 years now.


US claims against Iran: why now?


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6568458 -

"Behind the insurgency"? As in, the insurgents would just go away if Iran stopped interfering? Or, as in, the insurgents are a real group of people, rather than a label applied to a number of different, opposing groups to create an impression of simplicity where none exists?
While Iranian groups with some or no affiliation with the Iranian government may supply and/or funnel resources and/or armaments to some Iraqis, I don't think it's likely that the Iranian government is
supplying arms to left-over Baathists, for example.
It is this sort of thinking - that there are "terrorists", "insurgents", and "good guys" that got us into this mess. (Please don't take this statement to mean, for example, that I don't think the 9-11 hijackers weren't terrorists - I just think the word is often used as a substitute for clear thinking).
Here's a humorous and informative "guide to Iraq": http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/blog/BLOGgifs/FieldGuide070122/cagle00.gif
Iran more of a democracy than most middle eastern nations - including Saudi Arabia and even Pakistan, for instance. They made diplomatic overtures to us a couple years ago. They are a major regional power, and have the ability to influence the stability of the middle east. The people of Iran are not as entirely hostile to the US as you might think (depending, of course, on what you think).
Invading Iran and toppling the government would be a disaster so large that the invasion of Iraq would look like a work of genius by comparison. It would create another PR victory for our enemies in the middle east, and another training ground for potential terrorists. A ground war would cost billions and billions of dollars, and would very likely lead to a draft. Even a bombing campaign would solidify the populace of Iran behind the existing government in opposition to the US.
Iran is far from having nuclear weapons, and even if they get them it wouldn't be an unheard of disaster, in a world where Pakistan, Israel, and North Korea already have them, and Russia is unable to keep their existing nuclear materials off the black market.
It does seem likely that Iran is involved in Iraq. However, Iraq is inherently unstable, and was only kept in one piece by a brutal dictator.
If we want stability in the middle east, we should work with Iran.
As far as trusting our leaders, I think that the current administration has demonstrated itself to be very politically adept and very inept at representing my interests in the world, if it ever had any intention of doing so.

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: trippindad82]
    #6568476 -

trippindad82 said:
...yet most of you would rather see money go into a never ending war rather than educating the masses to stop the next war.


watch you pronouns, I doubt most of us here would "rather see money..." it's even hard to say if that statement is even true for America as a whole with the dropping approval rates and so on. I do agree with what you're saying though


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

Edited by elbisivni (02/14/07 08:11 PM)

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: trippindad82]
    #6568477 -

trippindad82 said:
Who are we to be another country's domestic heroes when we can't even solve our own domestic problems? Our education system is in shambles, yet most of you (pronoun usage?) would rather see money go into a never ending war rather than educating the masses to stop the next war.


to provide an analogy, it would be like me saying to you, "you're not taking care of your body, you're not eating right" when at the same time i weigh 285 pounds and have a BMI of 32.

that would be hypocritical on my part. who am i to say how you should take care of yourself when i do not even make an effort to apply my philosophy to my own body.

i feel education needs to be uprooted and re-planted in more nutritious soil. i can't help but only think about young kids today who are just growing up into their teenage years experiencing "the war on terrorism" and the culture which propagates it. what kind of values will they have fifteen years from now, what stereotypes will they harbor, and how will they treat their own neighbors (global and domestic)?

america, time to shape up.  :dancing:

:egyptian:


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Edited by AlteredAgain (02/14/07 08:10 PM)

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6568552 -

Sorry for my pronoun usage. As I have admitted earlier, I have a hard time putting to word the ideas in my noggin. Thanks to those of you who understand what I am saying and are able to word yourselves in a more understandable and grammatically correct fashion. :cool:


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: trippindad82]
    #6568594 -

it's always a good idea to clear it up on the spot before someone strolls along and takes your choice of words to heart. :wink:

:egyptian:


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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: trippindad82]
    #6569810 -

trippindad82 said:
Iraq isn't allowed to have allies in its fight to stop america's occupation of their country? If I remember correctly, we are using allies whom were not "personally" attacked like the US and England.


well if thats how you feel, then you should also know that we are doing everything possible to avoid declaring war on Iran.. and IF they were allies, we would have no problem declaring war.

whats happening is, its a special forces group within the Iranian military called the Quds.. and supposedly they are the ones supplying the weapons.. they are the equivelent of the American Green Barets.

I think how bush is handling Iran is pretty good right now.. he isnt accusing the Iranian government of it.. just a select group of militants within the Iranian military.

also how Bush has handled N. Korea has been pretty well.. 1-2 years ago i never would have thought we would reach an agreement where they agree to disarm all nuclear programs and allow UN inspectors into the country. thats a pretty big step. and also stops the risk of war with N. Korea atleast for the time being.


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Banez' PF Tek For Beginners

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6569892 -

AlteredAgain said:
well, perhaps we shouldn't be helping to create a need for an insurgency through our military involvement..

we have matters in our own country that could use some careful attention.

:egyptian:




It is very easy to Monday morning quarterback the war. I for one, can see many strategic blunders since its inception. BUT, why would Iraq NEED insurgents? Please explain.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: phi1618]
    #6569897 -

You stated:

If we want stability in the middle east, we should work with Iran.
As far as trusting our leaders, I think that the current administration has demonstrated itself to be very politically adept and very inept at representing my interests in the world, if it ever had any intention of doing so.



Pure conjecture.
How is the USA going to work with a country that refuses to work with the world on its nuclear program?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6569950 -

not to attempt to derail this because IMO its relevent.. North Korea for a long time said they wouldnt disarm their nuclear program and the US refused to "negioate with the axis of evil".. but look whats happening now.

nothing is impossible in this day and age.. i consider N. Korea much more hostile than Iran.


--------------------
Banez' PF Tek For Beginners

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Banez]
    #6569958 -

Quote:
well if thats how you feel, then you should also know that we are doing everything possible to avoid declaring war on Iran.. and IF they were allies, we would have no problem declaring war.

whats happening is, its a special forces group within the Iranian military called the Quds.. and supposedly they are the ones supplying the weapons.. they are the equivelent of the American Green Barets.

I think how bush is handling Iran is pretty good right now.. he isnt accusing the Iranian government of it.. just a select group of militants within the Iranian military.

also how Bush has handled N. Korea has been pretty well.. 1-2 years ago i never would have thought we would reach an agreement where they agree to disarm all nuclear programs and allow UN inspectors into the country. thats a pretty big step. and also stops the risk of war with N. Korea atleast for the time being.


I agree with you on N. Korea. However, from what I understand, Bush WANTS to go to war with Iran. He's doing everything in his power to build up evidence to start said war. He handled N. Korea very well, but he also never stated that we were going to go to war with Korea, he just pressured them. In the case of Iran "helping" Iraq, if we are to go to war over such claims, we had better be VERY careful. That same philosophy could put us at odds against Russia. Russia could very well assist and/or supply Iran with the weapons necessary in a war against the US. Allies are dangerous. That is one of the many factors that drove the world into wwi and wwii.


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


--------------------------------------


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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Banez]
    #6570064 -

What is actually happening in N Korea?



You mean to put credit in what they SAID at the recent talks? If you are familiar with history, I am sure you already know the last outcome of the USA's agreement with N Korea.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6571323 -

Yes, indeed. The complete joke handed over by notsoAlbright and dhimmy Carter, special envoy to the stars. Hopefully, this will require some verification. Otherwise, somebody is going to have to go a long way in convincing me that diplomacy is ever an option with these kinds of assholes. When you hand over the bribe you're supposed to get the tape, all copies plus the original. Or you just die.


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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6571849 -

zappaisgod said:
Yes, indeed. The complete joke handed over by notsoAlbright and dhimmy Carter, special envoy to the stars. Hopefully, this will require some verification. Otherwise, somebody is going to have to go a long way in convincing me that diplomacy is ever an option with these kinds of assholes. When you hand over the bribe you're supposed to get the tape, all copies plus the original. Or you just die.


Why is it acceptable for Bush to downplay his involvement in certain world theater involvements? I like how he blames Clinton for Iraq. Didn't his own father have the chance to rid the world of Saddass before Clinton came along? Or did his own father realize that removing saddass was not a solution and that there could be worse evils than him sitting, waiting for "power" in iraq? Just because he has presented himself as some sort of savior since 9/11 doesn't in any way mean that he is. As has been found out, France, Italy, and at least 9 other countries forewarned the US of the pending attack. They even told us it was AIRPLANES!!! Isn't he just as guilty for "standing by" and letting it happen?


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


--------------------------------------


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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: trippindad82]
    #6571870 -

Please provide a link where Bush blames Clinton for Iraq.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6571880 -

He says alot of things, not many are true.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: trippindad82]
    #6572595 -

trippindad82 said:
Why is it acceptable for Bush to downplay his involvement in certain world theater involvements? I like how he blames Clinton for Iraq. Didn't his own father have the chance to rid the world of Saddass before Clinton came along? Or did his own father realize that removing saddass was not a solution and that there could be worse evils than him sitting, waiting for "power" in iraq? Just because he has presented himself as some sort of savior since 9/11 doesn't in any way mean that he is. As has been found out, France, Italy, and at least 9 other countries forewarned the US of the pending attack. They even told us it was AIRPLANES!!! Isn't he just as guilty for "standing by" and letting it happen?


or take George H. W. Bush's father, Prescott Bush, who had been an early financial backer of the Nazi party through the Union Banking Corporation.

i'm going to be frank, the Bush family assisted the rise of the nazi party in early 20th century germany. look it up, do your research for those who doubt.

now why do we have the same blood line in office today?

:egyptian:


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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6572606 -

SirTripAlot said:
It is very easy to Monday morning quarterback the war. I for one, can see many strategic blunders since its inception. BUT, why would Iraq NEED insurgents? Please explain.



it's not a need, as in, iraq needs insurgents. you got my post wrong.

what i am saying is that we should not fuel the fire with our military presence. there's a rebellion for a reason, and there's a reason why it has gotten more violent since we invaded that country.

what's exactly is our business there?

:egyptian:


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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6572950 -

SirTripAlot said:
Please provide a link where Bush blames Clinton for Iraq.


I'm sorry. I misspoke. Republican Disney owned ABC came out with the special placing 100% blame on Clinton's "inability" to act. If you want to question this, go and watch "The Path to 9/11". As I have admitted earlier, I have a hard time putting to word the ideas in my head, that doesn't downplay them at all.


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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