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OfflineRonoS
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Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11?
    #647635 - 05/27/02 12:13 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

There is a growing amount of evidence that many Individuals (within the US Government) knew of the attacks on 9/11 well in advance...and to make matters worse the U.S. may be directly responsible for the attacks on it's own citizens!

Go to this link...and check out the rest of the site as well, It makes for an interesting read if nothing else.


http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/index.html#binladen " target="_blank"> http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/index.html#binladen




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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Rono]
    #649027 - 05/28/02 06:43 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i don't think he knew what was about to happen. The thing to remember is that they just said there would be something going down, they didn't say what exactly or even the day.

We are a very reactionary country that protects us against things that have happened instead of preparing for things that have not happened yet. I know this is a bit difficult to do but let me give you an example: That numbnut that came onto the plane with the shoebomb. Well now we have to have our shoes checked because one person had a shoe bomb. Do you actually think there will be another shoe bomb incident? No..i don't think so just as i don't think there'll be another plane into the building incident (i hope i'm right).

i'm rambling now..sorry.......


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #649070 - 05/28/02 07:27 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I understand what you're saying Invertigo, and you're right. But I think you're missing my point...Individuals in the U.S. government had prior knowledge that the attacks were going to occur, because they helped to orchestrate it. (I know this sounds like a huge conspiracy theory...well...yeah I guess it is)...It would appear that it comes down the Oil Industry and the huge profits it generates...it's no secret that Politicians and Big Business are almost the same entity...if you have the money, you have the power...check out this timeline...even if it doesn't convince you, it should at least make you a little suspicious.

1. 1991-1997 - Major U.S. oil companies including ExxonMobil, Texaco, Unocal, BP Amoco, Shell and Enron directly invest billions in cash bribing heads of state in Kazakhstan to secure equity rights in the huge oil reserves in these regions. The oil companies further commit to future direct investments in Kazakhstan of $35 billion. Not being willing to pay exorbitant prices to Russia to use Russian pipelines the major oil companies have no way to recoup their investments. ["The Price of Oil," by Seymour Hersh, The New Yorker, July 9, 2001 - The Asia Times, "The Roving Eye Part I Jan. 26, 2002.]

2. December 4, 1997 - Representatives of the Taliban are invited guests to the Texas headquarters of Unocal to negotiate their support for the pipeline. Subsequent reports will indicate that the negotiations failed, allegedly because the Taliban wanted too much money. [Source: The BBC, Dec. 4, 1997]

3. February 12, 1998 - Unocal Vice President John J. Maresca - later to become a Special Ambassador to Afghanistan - testifies before the House that until a single, unified, friendly government is in place in Afghanistan the trans-Afghani pipeline needed to monetize the oil will not be built. [Source: Testimony before the House International Relations Committee.]

4. 1998 - The CIA ignores warnings from Case Officer Robert Baer that Saudi Arabia was harboring an al-Q'aeda cell led by two known terrorists. A more detailed list of known terrorists is offered to Saudi intelligence in August 2001 and refused. [Source: Financial Times 1/12/01; See No Evil by a book by Robert Baer (release date Feb. 2002).

5. April, 1999 - Enron with a $3 billion investment to build an electrical generating plant at Dabhol India loses access to plentiful LNG supplies from Qatar to fuel the plant. Its only remaining option to make the investment profitable is a trans-Afghani gas pipeline to be built by Unocal from Turkmenistan that would terminate near the Indian border at the city of Multan. [Source: The Albion Monitor, Feb. 28, 2002.]

6. 1998 and 2000 - Former President George H.W. Bush travels to Saudi Arabia on behalf of the privately owned Carlyle Group, the 11th largest defense contractor in the U.S. While there he meets privately with the Saudi royal family and the bin Laden family. [Source: Wall Street Journal, Sept. 27, 2001. See also FTW, Vol. IV, No 7 - "The Best Enemies Money Can Buy," - http://www.fromthewilderness.com/
members/carlyle.html. ]

7. January, 2001 - The Bush Administration orders the FBI and intelligence agencies to "back off" investigations involving the bin Laden family, including two of Osama bin Laden's relatives (Abdullah and Omar) who were living in Falls Church, VA - right next to CIA headquarters. This followed previous orders dating back to 1996, frustrating efforts to investigate the bin Laden family. [Source: BBC Newsnight, Correspondent Gregg Palast - Nov 7, 2001].

8. Feb 13, 2001 - UPI Terrorism Correspondent Richard Sale - while covering a trial of bin Laden's Al Q'aeda followers - reports that the National Security Agency has broken bin Laden's encrypted communications. Even if this indicates that bin Laden changed systems in February it does not mesh with the fact that the government insists that the attacks had been planned for years.

9. May 2001 - Secretary of State Colin Powell gives $43 million in aid to the Taliban regime, purportedly to assist hungry farmers who are starving since the destruction of their opium crop in January on orders of the Taliban regime. [Source: The Los Angeles Times, May 22, 2001].

10. May, 2001 - Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, a career covert operative and former Navy Seal, travels to India on a publicized tour while CIA Director George Tenet makes a quiet visit to Pakistan to meet with Pakistani leader General Pervez Musharraf. Armitage has long and deep Pakistani intelligence connections and he is the recipient of the highest civil decoration awarded by Pakistan. It would be reasonable to assume that while in Islamabad, Tenet, in what was described as "an unusually long meeting," also met with his Pakistani counterpart, Lt. General Mahmud Ahmad, head of the ISI. [Source The Indian SAPRA news agency, May 22, 2001.]

11. June 2001 - German intelligence, the BND, warns the CIA and Israel that Middle Eastern terrorists are "planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture." [Source: Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, September 14, 2001.]

12. July, 2001 - Three American officials: Tom Simmons (former U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan), Karl Inderfurth (former Assistant Secretary of State for South Asian affairs) and Lee Coldren (former State Department expert on South Asia), meet with Pakistani and Russian intelligence officers in Berlin and tell them that the U.S. is planning military strikes against Afghanistan in October. A French book released in November, "Bin Laden - La Verité Interdite," discloses that Taliban representatives often sat in on the meetings. British papers confirm that the Pakistani ISI relayed the threats to the Taliban. [Source: The Guardian, September 22, 2001; the BBC, September 18, 2001.The Inter Press Service, Nov 16, 2001]

13. Summer, 2001 - The National Security Council convenes a Dabhol working group as revealed in a series of government e-mails obtained by The Washington Post and the New York Daily News. [Source: The Albion Monitor, Feb. 28, 2002]

14. Summer 2001 - According to a Sept. 26 story in Britain's The Guardian, correspondent David Leigh reported that, "U.S. department of defense official, Dr. Jeffrey Starr, visited Tajikistan in January. The Guardian's Felicity Lawrence established that US Rangers were also training special troops in Kyrgyzstan. There were unconfirmed reports that Tajik and Uzbek special troops were training in Alaska and Montana."

15. Summer 2001 (est.) - Pakistani ISI Chief General Ahmad (see above) orders an aide to wire transfer $100,000 to Mohammed Atta, who was according to the FBI, the lead terrorist in the suicide hijackings. Ahmad recently resigned after the transfer was disclosed in India and confirmed by the FBI. [Source: The Times of India, October 11, 2001.]

16. Summer 2001 - An Iranian man phones U.S. law enforcement to warn of an imminent attack on the World Trade Center in the week of September 9th. German police confirm the calls but state that the U.S. Secret Service would not reveal any further information. [Source: German news agency "online.de", September 14, 2001, translation retrieved from online.ie in Ireland.]

17. June 26, 2001 - The magazine indiareacts.com states that "India and Iran will 'facilitate' US and Russian plans for 'limited military action' against the Taliban." The story indicates that the fighting will be done by US and Russian troops with the help of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. [Source: indiareacts.com, June 26, 2001.]

18. August 2001 - The FBI arrests an Islamic militant linked to bin Laden in Boston. French intelligence sources confirm that the man is a key member of bin Laden's network and the FBI learns that he has been taking flying lessons. At the time of his arrest the man is in possession of technical information on Boeing aircraft and flight manuals. [Source: Reuters, September 13.]

19. August 11 or 12 - US Navy Lt. Delmart "Mike" Vreeland, jailed in Toronto on U.S. fraud charges and claiming to be an officer in U.S. Naval intelligence, writes details of the pending WTC attacks and seals them in an envelope which he gives to Canadian authorities. [Source: The Toronto Star, Oct. 23, 2001; Toronto Superior Court Records]

20. Summer 2001 - Russian intelligence notifies the CIA that 25 terrorist pilots have been specifically training for suicide missions. This is reported in the Russian press and news stories are translated for FTW by a retired CIA officer.

21. July 4-14, 2001 - Osama bin Laden receives treatments for kidney disease at the American hospital in Dubai and meets with a CIA official who returns to CIA headquarters on July 15th. [Source: Le Figaro, October 31st, 2001.]

22. August 2001 - Russian President Vladimir Putin orders Russian intelligence to warn the U.S. government "in the strongest possible terms" of imminent attacks on airports and government buildings. [Source: MS-NBC interview with Putin, September 15.]

23. August/September, 2001 - The Dow Jones Industrial Average drops nearly 900 points in the three weeks prior to the attack. A major stock market crash is imminent.

24. Sept. 3-10, 2001 - MS-NBC reports on September 16 that a caller to a Cayman Islands radio talk show gave several warnings of an imminent attack on the U.S. by bin Laden in the week prior to 9/11.

25. September 1-10, 2001 - In an exercise, Operation "Swift Sword" planned for four years, 23, 000 British troops are steaming toward Oman. Although the 9/11 attacks caused a hiccup in the deployment the massive operation was implemented as planned. At the same time two U.S. carrier battle groups arrive on station in the Gulf of Arabia just off the Pakistani coast. Also at the same time, some 17,000 U.S. troops join more than 23,000 NATO troops in Egypt for Operation "Bright Star." All of these forces are in place before the first plane hits the World Trade Center. [Sources: The Guardian, CNN, FOX, The Observer, International Law Professor Francis Boyle, the University of Illinois.]

26. September 7, 2001 - Florida Governor Jeb Bush signs a two-year emergency executive order (01-261) making new provisions for the Florida National Guard to assist law enforcement and emergency-management personnel in the event of large civil disturbances, disaster or acts of terrorism. [Source: State of Florida web site listing of Governor's Executive Orders.]

27. September 6-7, 2001 - 4,744 put options (a speculation that the stock will go down) are purchased on United Air Lines stock as opposed to only 396 call options (speculation that the stock will go up). This is a dramatic and abnormal increase in sales of put options. Many of the UAL puts are purchased through Deutschebank/AB Brown, a firm managed until 1998 by the current Executive Director of the CIA, A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard. [Source: The Herzliyya International Policy Institute for Counterterrorism, http://www.ict.org.il/, September 21; The New York Times; The Wall Street Journal.]

28. September 10, 2001 - 4,516 put options are purchased on American Airlines as compared to 748 call options. [Source: ICT - above]

29. September 6-11, 2001 - No other airlines show any similar trading patterns to those experienced by UAL and American. The put option purchases on both airlines were 600% above normal. This at a time when Reuters (September 10) issues a business report stating, "Airline stocks may be poised to take off."

30. September 6-10, 2001 - Highly abnormal levels of put options are purchased in Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AXA Re(insurance) which owns 25% of American Airlines, and Munich Re. All of these companies are directly impacted by the September 11 attacks. [Source: ICT, above; FTW, Vol. IV, No.7, October 18, 2001, http://www.fromthewilderness.com/
members/oct152001.html. ]

31. It has been documented that the CIA, the Israeli Mossad and many other intelligence agencies monitor stock trading in real time using highly advanced programs reported to be descended from Promis software. This is to alert national intelligence services of just such kinds of attacks. Promis was reported, as recently as June, 2001 to be in Osama bin Laden's possession and, as a result of recent stories by FOX, both the FBI and the Justice Department have confirmed its use for U.S. intelligence gathering through at least this summer. This would confirm that CIA had additional advance warning of imminent attacks. [Sources: The Washington Times, June 15, 2001; FOX News, October 16, 2001; FTW, October 26, 2001, - http://www.fromthewilderness.com/
members/magic_carpet.html; FTW, Vol. IV, No.6, Sept. 18, 2001 - http://www.fromthewilderness.com/
members/sept1801.html; FTW, Vol. 3, No 7, 9/30/00 - www.fromthewilderness.com/
free/pandora/052401_promis.html.

32. September 11, 2001 - Gen Mahmud of the ISI (see above), friend of Mohammed Atta, is visiting Washington on behalf of the Taliban. He is meeting with the Chairmen of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, Porter Goss (R), FL and Bob Graham (D), Fl [Sources: MS-NBC, Oct. 7, The New York Times, Feb. 17, 2002.]

33. September 11, 2001 - Employees of Odigo, Inc. in Israel, one of the world's largest instant messaging companies, with offices in New York, receive threat warnings of an imminent attack on the WTC less than two hours before the first plane hits the WTC. Law enforcement authorities have gone silent about any investigation of this. The Odigo Research and Development offices in Israel are located in the city of Herzliyya, a ritzy suburb of Tel Aviv which is the same location as the Institute for Counter Terrorism which breaks early details of insider trading on 9-11. [Source: CNN's Daniel Sieberg, 9/28/01; Newsbytes, Brian McWilliams, 9/27/01; Ha'aretz, 9/26/01.].

34. September 11, 2001, For 50 minutes, from 8:15 AM until 9:05 AM, with it widely known within the FAA and the military that four planes have been simultaneously hijacked and taken off course, no one notifies the President of the United States. It is not until 9:30 that any Air Force planes are scrambled to intercept, but by then it is too late. This means that the National Command Authority waited for 75 minutes before scrambling aircraft, even though it was known that four simultaneous hijackings had occurred - an event that has never happened in history. [Sources: CNN, ABC, MS-NBC, The Los Angeles Times, The New York Times.]

35. September 13, 2001 - China is admitted to the World Trade Organization quickly, after 15 years of unsuccessful attempts. [Source: The New York Times, Sept. 30, 2001.]

36. September 14, 2001 - Canadian jailers open the sealed envelope from Mike Vreeland in Toronto and see that is describes attacks against the WTC and Pentagon. The U.S. Navy subsequently states that Vreeland was discharged as a seaman in 1986 for unsatisfactory performance and has never worked in intelligence. [Source: The Toronto Star, Oct. 23, 2001; Toronto Superior Court records]

37. September 15, 2001 - The New York Times reports that Mayo Shattuck III has resigned, effective immediately, as head of the Alex (A.B) Brown unit of Deutschebank.

38. September 29, 2001 - The San Francisco Chronicle reports that $2.5 million in put options on American Airlines and United Airlines are unclaimed. This is likely the result of the suspension in trading on the NYSE after the attacks which gave the Securities and Exchange Commission time to be waiting when the owners showed up to redeem their put options.

39. October 10, 2001 - The Pakistani newspaper The Frontier Post reports that U.S. Ambassador Wendy Chamberlain has paid a call on the Pakistani oil minister. A previously abandoned Unocal pipeline from Turkmenistan, across Afghanistan, to the Pakistani coast, for the purpose of selling oil and gas to China, is now back on the table "in view of recent geopolitical developments."

40. October 11, 2001 - The Ashcroft Justice Department takes over all terrorist prosecutions from the U.S. Attorneys office in New York which has had a highly successful track record in prosecuting terrorist cases connected to Osama bin Laden. [Source: The New York Times, Oct. 11, 2002.]

41. Mid October, 2001 - The Dow Jones Industrial Average, after having suffered a precipitous drop has recovered most of its pre-attack losses. Although still weak, and vulnerable to negative earnings reports, a crash has been averted by a massive infusion of government spending on defense programs, subsidies for "affected" industries and planned tax cuts for corporations.

42. November 21, 2001 - The British paper The Independent runs a story headlined, "Opium Farmers Rejoice at the Defeat of the Taliban." The story reports that massive opium planting is underway all over the country.

43. November 25, 2001 - The Observer runs a story headlined "Victorious Warlords Set To Open the Opium Floodgates." It states that farmers are being encouraged by warlords allied with the victorious Americans are "being encouraged to plant "as much opium as possible."

44. December 4, 2001 - Convicted drug lord and opium kingpin Ayub Afridi is recruited by the US government to help establish control in Afghanistan by unifying various Pashtun warlords. The former opium smuggler who was one of the CIA's leading assets in the war against the Russians is released from prison in order to do this. [Source: The Asia Times Online, 12/4/01].

45. December 25, 2001 - Newly appointed afghani Prime Minister Hamid Karzai is revealed as being a former paid consultant for Unocal. [Source: Le Monde.]

46. January 3, 2002 - President Bush appoints Zalamy Khalilzad as a special envoy to Afghanistan. Khalilzad, a former employee of Unocal, also wrote op-eds in the Washington Post in 1997 supporting the Taliban regime. [Source: Pravda, 1/9/02]

47. January 4, 2002 - Florida drug trafficking explodes after 9-11. In a surge of trafficking reminiscent of the 1980s the diversion of resources away from drug enforcement has opened the floodgates for a new surge of cocaine and heroin from South America. [The Christian Science Monitor, January 4, 2002.

48. January 10, 2002 - In a call from a speaker phone in open court, attorneys for "Mike" Vreeland call the Pentagon's switchboard operator who confirms that Vreeland is indeed a Naval Lieutenant on active duty. She provides an office number and a direct dial phone extension to his office in the Pentagon. [Source: Attorney Rocco Galati; court records Toronto Superior Court.]

49. January 10, 2002 - Attorney General John Ashcroft recuses himself from the Enron investigation because Enron had been a major campaign donor in his 2000 Senate race. He fails to recuse himself from involvement in two sitting Federal grand juries investigating bribery and corruption charges against ExxonMobil and BP-Amoco who have massive oil interests in Central Asia. Both were major Ashcroft donors in 2000. [Source: CNN, Jan. 10, 2002 - FTW original investigation, The Elephant in the Living Room, Part I, Apr 4, 2002.]

50. February 9, 2002 - Pakistani leader General Musharraf and Afghan leader Hamid Karzai announce their agreement to "cooperate in all spheres of activity" including the proposed Central Asian pipeline. Pakistan will give $10 million to Afghanistan to help pay Afghani government workers. [Source: The Irish Times, 2/9/02]

51. Feb 18, 2002 - The Financial Times reports that the estimated opium harvest in Afghanistan in the late Spring of 2002 will reach a world record 4500 metric tons.

Now, let's go back to the October 31 story by Le Figaro - the one that has Osama bin Laden meeting with a CIA officer in Dubai this June.

The story says that, "Throughout his stay in the hospital, Osama Bin Laden received visits from many family members [There goes the story that he's a black sheep!] and Saudi Arabian Emirate personalities of status. During this time the local representative of the CIA was seen by many people taking the elevator and going to bin Laden's room.

"Several days later the CIA officer bragged to his friends about having visited the Saudi millionaire. From authoritative sources, this CIA agent visited CIA headquarters on July 15th, the day after bin Laden's departure for Quetta?

"According to various Arab diplomatic sources and French intelligence itself, precise information was communicated to the CIA concerning terrorist attacks aimed at American interests in the world, including its own territory."?

"Extremely bothered, they [American intelligence officers in a meeting with French intelligence officers] requested from their French peers exact details about the Algerian activists [connected to bin Laden through Dubai banking institutions], without explaining the exact nature of their inquiry. When asked the question, "What do you fear in the coming days?' the Americans responded with incomprehensible silence."?

"On further investigation, the FBI discovered certain plans that had been put together between the CIA and its "Islamic friends" over the years. The meeting in Dubai is, so it would seem, consistent with 'a certain American policy.'"

Even though Le Figaro reported that it had confirmed with hospital staff that bin Laden had been there as reported, stories printed on November 1 contained quotes from hospital staff that these reports were untrue. On November 1, as reported by the Ananova press agency, the CIA flatly denied that any meeting between any CIA personnel and Osama bin Laden at any time.





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Anonymous

Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Rono]
    #649103 - 05/28/02 07:53 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I'm suspicious, but then I have been for a couple of decades. Any suggestions on how to wake up the sheeple?


Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
- attributed to Lord Acton


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: ]
    #649151 - 05/28/02 08:33 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Stay informed, question everything and share your knowledge...it is difficult because there is so much dis-information being spread at the same time. And of course "they" will always deny any involvement in such an attrocity against humanity, so the actual truth may never be known. ..strange days indeed.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Rono]
    #649246 - 05/28/02 09:32 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Great post, thanks a lot. I checked out that link and found it had some pretty explosive information that is hard to find elsewhere. Unlike many conspiracy theorists, he does a good job of citing his sources. Funnily enough, most of his sources are very mainstream (CNN, BBC, etc.) which just goes to show that all the dots are out there but that nobody has the intelligence or courage to tie them together. I remember back in September when they showed those pictures of Bush at the elementary school while his advisor was supposedly informing him for "the first time" what had happened, and I remember thinking "he doesn't look fucking surprised or shocked at all." After reading the guy's site I checked the trading history for United Airlines in the days before 9/11, and wouldn't you know, trading volume was practically three times as high on September 10 as it had been a week before.

On the other hand, though, as much as I hate Bush, I still can't help but feel a bit of internal resistance to the idea that the entire executive branch would knowingly allow the slaughter of thousands of innocent civilians, no matter how much oil money was at stake--not because I ascribe any conscience or morality to those inhuman bastards, but simply because they must certainly be aware of the chance that they could be caught out. But who knows, maybe after the election fiasco of 2000, they came to feel invincible and untouchable. But boy would it be sweet to see Bush and Cheney go on trial for treason and crimes against humanity. Ever since they were forcibly installed by the Supreme Court, life in this country seems more surreal and dangerous by the day. As the headline in The Onion put it back when he was "elected", "Bush: 'Our Long National Nightmare of Peace and Prosperity is Finally Over.'"


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #649339 - 05/28/02 10:32 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah...the odd thing in retrospect about when Bush was informed for the "first time" about the attacks, he continued to talk to the children afterwards! I'm pretty sure that the standard procedure in case the U.S. is ever attacked would be to get the president into a secure location A.S.A.P. His secret service guys should have hauled his ass out of the school faster than you could blink. Unless of course he knew he was never in any danger...but then again that's just my opinion.

Unfortunately I highly doubt that anything will ever come of this, which if the allegations are true is an absolute tragedy of the worst kind. Information will be "forgotten" or "lost", witnesses will be pressured to recant their stories, or worse...and the lie will perpetuate. Those that have the courage to stand up and voice an opinion will be ridiculed by the mindless masses that will continue to pay their taxes and do what they're told like good citizens.


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OfflineJammer
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Rono]
    #649587 - 05/28/02 01:14 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I remeber some people talking about this stuff way back around 9-12-01.... The diference now is that people are now talking about this in the pulblic.

I think that many are still too scared to talk about anthrax!


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>>Jammer>>


Edited by Jammer (05/28/02 01:25 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Rono]
    #649684 - 05/28/02 02:43 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You are truly a character.

I think that the only one who really knew what was going to happen was Elvis.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #649718 - 05/28/02 03:28 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Luvdemshrooms...Your responses are always so informative and thought provoking...thank you for your keen insight in world matters.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Rono]
    #649743 - 05/28/02 03:45 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry, I tried to dumb down my response to meet the level set by your post. If I didn't go low enough to make it understandable, I apologize.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #649800 - 05/28/02 04:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, that was pretty stupid of me to question the American Government and it's infinite wisdom, given it's amazing track record. Thanks for setting me straight.


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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Rono]
    #650203 - 05/28/02 09:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Sure why not... All billions of dollars in bombs and misiles we have were made with money raised several administrations ago. With us able to drop billions of dollars on some third world contry we have the need to make more and with that comes the Billions in tax revineus on labor, parts, services and supplys.
You cant have growth without making sacrafice.


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GabbaDj

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OfflineJammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!

Registered: 11/05/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Rono]
    #650214 - 05/28/02 09:36 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

In case anyone missed it: Click here for another recent thread in this forum that envolved into the same subject matter.


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>>Jammer>>


Edited by Jammer (05/28/02 09:44 PM)


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Offlinepolitikill
journeyman

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 72
Loc: THC, Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Jammer]
    #650578 - 05/29/02 06:09 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Another interesting fact is that the US is considered to be the leading terrorist state by many intellectuals and experts on the subject.
I might also point out that the US is the only country in the world to be successfully charged with the crime of International Terrorism by the World Court.
Hey Luvdemshrooms, you ever heard of a country named Nicaragua??
It is also interesting to point out that when Nicaragua was under siege by the US they did not respond by setting off bombs in Washington rather they followed the rule of International Law (and won their case as I have pointed out). Not that the US followed the ruling of the World Court, instead they broke International Law and escalated the cycle of violence and terror. I might also point out that Reagan also broke US congressional law in the case of Nicaragua...
The point here is that the US is a leading terrorist state and only follows the rule of International Law when it benefits their allies and national interests. Furthermore, terrorism and proxy wars are a major part of US foreign policy, what US planners call "Low Intensity Conflict".
All I am getting at is that hypocrisy is the greatest luxury ...
Orwell would truly call it double-think...


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Censorship: ahh, McCarthyism with a smiley face



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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: politikill]
    #658680 - 06/02/02 09:37 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You are a FOOL(.) I need not argue because the utter bullshit pouring forth from your suck is totally obvious for what it is. BULLSHIT.



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"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #658705 - 06/02/02 09:57 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Cthulhu, I can feel the fervence of your testimony. It's so thick and sincere I can scrape it off the screen with a butter knife. But this isn't the forum for religious testimonials. Here, sadly, we rely on some form of logic to move the discussion along.

I know, it sucks, but them's the rules.


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Offlinemrfreedom
journeyman
Male
Registered: 11/22/01
Posts: 80
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Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #658765 - 06/02/02 10:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I see you need a little history lesson GC.


November 09, 2001

What Everyone Should Know About Nicaragua

By Mark Weisbrot

The United States' first post-September 11 foray into Latin American politics -- in Nicaragua's election -- provides a glimpse of how Washington's new "counter-terrorism" policy may play out in this region.

Conservative candidate Enrique Bolanos defeated the Sandinistas' Daniel Ortega, in an election that had been cast as too close to call. US officials publicly warned against a Sandinista victory, accusing them of "links to terrorism," and openly supported Bolanos.

But to understand the meaning of these events, we need a bit more history than most press accounts are providing. The Sandinistas took their name from Augusto Cesar Sandino, a Nicaraguan who led a guerilla war from 1927-33 against US Marines who had invaded his country. T

he Marines finally left in 1933, but not before setting up a National Guard, led by Anastasio Somoza Garcia, to run the country. Sandino was murdered by the Guard, and Somoza established a family dictatorship that ruled the country with US support until the Sandinista-led revolution in 1979.

When Anastasio Jr. fled to Miami -- our haven for retired dictators -- in 1979, Nicaraguans celebrated the departure of "the last Marine." Tens of thousands of people had been killed in the insurrection, as Somoza's air force bombed poor residential neighborhoods of Managua, figuring that all of the people living there were his enemies.

Partly because of the church-based, pacifist background of the organizations that joined their movement, the Sandinistas broke with the pattern of modern revolutions and rejected vengeance. They set a 30-year maximum sentence, even for the most vicious of their former tormentors and torturers.

But their enemies in Washington were not so forgiving. While the Sandinistas were rebuilding the war-ravaged economy -- it quickly reached the highest growth rate of Central America -- Washington was planning violence. While the Sandinistas built health clinics and waged literacy campaigns that won international acclaim and awards from the United Nations, the Reagan Administration built an army to overthrow the new government.

The "Contras" as they were called -- from the Spanish for counter-revolutionaries -- were recruited, armed, trained, and paid by the CIA. They waged war not so much against the Nicaraguan army as against "soft targets:" teachers, health care workers, elected officials (a CIA-prepared manual actually advocated their assassination).

They blew up bridges and health clinics, and with help from a US trade embargo beginning in 1985, destroyed the economy of Nicaragua.

The Sandinistas took the United States to the World Court for its terrorist actions -- the same Court where the US had won a judgment against Iran just a few years earlier, for the taking of American hostages. The Court ruled in favor of Nicaragua, ordering reparations estimated at $17 billion. The US refused to recognize the Court's decision.

In 1984 there were elections in Nicaragua. Over 400 observers from 40 countries, including the Latin American Studies Association of scholars from the United States, found that the election was basically free and fair.

Although there was no doubt the country had voted for the Sandinistas -- including Ortega as president -- Washington continued its violent efforts to overthrow the democratically elected government. But the Contras' extreme brutality sickened many Americans, especially among the religious community.

Within a couple of years a grassroots movement persuaded Congress to cut off funding to the Contras. That's when Oliver North and his friends sought out creative new sources of financing, such as illegal arms sales to Iran -- leading to the Iran-Contra scandal.

By 1990 the Nicaraguans had suffered more than they could take from the war and economic embargo, and so when President George Bush I made it clear that their misery would continue until the Sandinistas were voted out of office, a majority cried uncle.

Washington got the government it wanted, but of course it did not end Nicaragua's suffering. A decade of IMF and World Bank tutelage has left Nicaraguans with the most crushing debt burden in the hemisphere, 70 percent of its people in poverty, and -- alone among Latin Americans -- less income per person than they had 40 years ago.

Bolanos' victory assures a grim future, although neither Ortega nor the Sandinistas represent the kind of hope that they did 20 years ago. It is not surprising that Nicaraguans would, after once again hearing the threats from the North, decide they could not afford another Sandinista government.

But as the ignorant and depraved breathe their sighs of relief in Washington, they would do well to consider the warning of John F. Kennedy: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

Mark Weisbrot is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research (www.cepr.net), in Washington, DC.





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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: hongomon]
    #658839 - 06/02/02 11:55 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Logic? There is no logic in arguing the U.S. is a terrorist state. WHAT "intellectuals and experts on the subject" is this Canadian idiot above me talking about? Perhaps he considers himself an expert. It is utter complete stupidity. Anyone that believes we are a terrorist state is fool...they are misinformed..weak minded..or they are using a different definition of terrorism altogether. I think it's a combination of all of the previous .
In my short response to the B.S. I merely didn't want to get in a long argument with a fence post. Most people see right through the B.S. anyway...so why bother I was thinking. I just wanted to poke him and see how much more pablem he could puke out .
Don't talk to me of logic. I see very little logic in any of your leftist pablem posts on this board.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Was Bush aware of the attacks prior to 9/11? [Re: mrfreedom]
    #658847 - 06/02/02 11:59 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

No I don't need a history lesson from you. I know my history. I especially don't need any history lessons from a liberal with a biased view of history.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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