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SquattingMarmot
Inquiring Mind
Registered: 08/19/03
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9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable
#2186901 - 12/18/03 01:02 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CBSNews
9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable
(CBS) For the first time, the chairman of the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks is saying publicly that 9/11 could have and should have been prevented, reports CBS News Correspondent Randall Pinkston.
"This is a very, very important part of history and we've got to tell it right," said Thomas Kean.
"As you read the report, you're going to have a pretty clear idea what wasn't done and what should have been done," he said. "This was not something that had to happen."
Appointed by the Bush administration, Kean, a former Republican governor of New Jersey, is now pointing fingers inside the administration and laying blame.
"There are people that, if I was doing the job, would certainly not be in the position they were in at that time because they failed. They simply failed," Kean said.
To find out who failed and why, the commission has navigated a political landmine, threatening a subpoena to gain access to the president's top-secret daily briefs. Those documents may shed light on one of the most controversial assertions of the Bush administration ? that there was never any thought given to the idea that terrorists might fly an airplane into a building.
"I don't think anybody could have predicted that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile," said national security adviser Condoleeza Rice on May 16, 2002.
"How is it possible we have a national security advisor coming out and saying we had no idea they could use planes as weapons when we had FBI records from 1991 stating that this is a possibility," said Kristen Breitweiser, one of four New Jersey widows who lobbied Congress and the president to appoint the commission.
The widows want to know why various government agencies didn't connect the dots before Sept. 11, such as warnings from FBI offices in Minnesota and Arizona about suspicious student pilots.
"If you were to tell me that two years after the murder of my husband that we wouldn't have one question answered, I wouldn't believe it," Breitweiser said.
Kean admits the commission also has more questions than answers.
Asked whether we should at least know if people sitting in the decision-making spots on that critical day are still in those positions, Kean said, "Yes, the answer is yes. And we will."
Kean promises major revelations in public testimony beginning next month from top officials in the FBI, CIA, Defense Department, National Security Agency and, maybe, President Bush and former President Clinton.
? MMIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.
-------------------- "In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem." "The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day." - George Carlin
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Randolph_Carter
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Funny, the idea of planes as weapons occured to me.... This is gonna be a freakin shitstorm.
-------------------- "..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street." Gibson Nuke baby seals for Jesus! (This has been a +1 production.)
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mntlfngrs
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It seems very stange to me that Bush would appoint this guy who obviously is not under Bushes control if he is saying this stuff. I mean all the lefties here KNOW that Bush is involved in a HUGE CONSPIRACY and could not affort to allow an uncontrolled man run an investigation into 9/11. Wow, Bush realy is stupid. He is involved in the biggest conspiricy of all and he forgot to brainwash or buy the guy he appointed to investigate.
-------------------- Be all and you'll be to end all
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Oh No, not again......
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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medicinebag
Hunting
Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
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TOTALLY>>>
9/11 was just a way for the "SHOPPE" to hijact the world.
Bush senior was the Director of the CIA>
Bush Junior takes orders from the SHOPPE>
Plain and simple.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
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Posts: 32,665
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: medicinebag]
#2187559 - 12/18/03 10:08 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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damn...I just ran out of reynolds wrap.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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AAWWWWWE SHIT!
Just for those who aren't up on the Bush knew conspiracy, click these links to read all about it.....
-Prior Knowledge Archive
-Bush's movements and actions on 9-11
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Phred
Fred's son
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This just in:
"World War II was Preventable"
Of course 9/11 could have been prevented. Clinton could have taken advantage of the opportunities to capture Osama bin Laden.
The phrase means nothing. World War II could have been prevented as well, by assassinating Hitler before the invasion of Poland.
Hindsight is 20/20.
pinky
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Swami
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Phred]
#2187878 - 12/18/03 12:56 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is it hindsight that all the pieces were in place for decades as to intercepting commercial planes that fly outside of their flight path and do not respond to communications? And that there was no excuse why fighter jets were not scrambled when they had plenty of time and had been trained to do so? Notice: AT NO TIME did I mention the words "Bush" or "conspiracy" so don't use them in a reply.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (12/18/03 02:09 PM)
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Phred
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Swami]
#2187996 - 12/18/03 02:00 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Swami writes:
Is it hindsite that all the pieces were in place for decades as to intercepting commercial planes that fly outside of their flight path and do not respond to communications?
You are of course aware that prior to 9/11, military planes were scrambled to intercept such stray planes in only roughly 25% of the cases. Yes, I know.... everyone always brings up Payne Webber's (or whatever the name of that golfer is) plane being intercepted when it went astray. No one ever brings up the over three hundred such incidents in the preceding year where fighters weren't scrambled.
And that there was no excuse why fighter jets were not scrambled when they had plenty of time and had been trained to do so?
No excuse other than precedent. The fact is that prior to 9/11, sometimes planes were scrambled to deal with a stray plane, more often they weren't.
What was Clinton's excuse for not capturing bin Laden? Does his failure to do so (even after he had been declared a public enemy for involvement in prior terrorist attacks) mean Clinton was responsible for 9/11?
What about the warnings from various sources about the possibility of commercial airlines being hijacked and used as missiles? Does the fact that the FAA didn't ground all commercial airlines mean the FAA was responsible for 9/11? What was their excuse for not grounding flights?
What about the analysts who failed to distinguish between the hints and unconfirmed reports of various things which eventually led to 9/11 and the literally tens of thousands of other hints and unconfirmed reports of various other things which eventually led to nothing at all? Are the analysts responsible for 9/11? What was their excuse for not acting on all the tens of thousands of hints, just in case?
pinky
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Swami]
#2187998 - 12/18/03 02:00 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Swami writes:
Is it hindsite that all the pieces were in place for decades as to intercepting commercial planes that fly outside of their flight path and do not respond to communications?
You are of course aware that prior to 9/11, military planes were scrambled to intercept such stray planes in only roughly 25% of the cases. Yes, I know.... everyone always brings up Payne Webber's (or whatever the name of that golfer is) plane being intercepted when it went astray. No one ever brings up the over three hundred such incidents in the preceding year where fighters weren't scrambled.
And that there was no excuse why fighter jets were not scrambled when they had plenty of time and had been trained to do so?
No excuse other than precedent. The fact is that prior to 9/11, sometimes planes were scrambled to deal with a stray plane, more often they weren't.
What was Clinton's excuse for not capturing bin Laden? Does his failure to do so (even after he had been declared a public enemy for involvement in prior terrorist attacks) mean Clinton was responsible for 9/11?
What about the warnings from various sources about the possibility of commercial airlines being hijacked and used as missiles? Does the fact that the FAA didn't ground all commercial airlines mean the FAA was responsible for 9/11? What was their excuse for not grounding flights?
What about the analysts who failed to distinguish between the hints and unconfirmed reports of various things which eventually led to 9/11 and the literally tens of thousands of other hints and unconfirmed reports of various other things which eventually led to nothing at all? Are the analysts responsible for 9/11? What was their excuse for not acting on all the tens of thousands of hints, just in case?
pinky
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Rono
DSYSB since '01
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Phred]
#2188015 - 12/18/03 02:08 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
What was Clinton's excuse for not capturing bin Laden?
last time I checked the current administration hasn't had any luck catching Osama Bin Laden, despite having an almost incestuous relationship with the Bin Laden family...
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
Edited by Rono (12/18/03 02:09 PM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Phred]
#2188027 - 12/18/03 02:13 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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No excuse other than precedent. So we need a 911-type incident to prevent a 911-type incident?
The fact is that prior to 9/11, sometimes planes were scrambled to deal with a stray plane, more often they weren't. So it WAS preventable, but those in charge were incompetent or lackadaisical.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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enimatpyrt
addict
Registered: 11/05/03
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Quote:
SquattingMarmot said:
Quote:
CBSNews
9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable
(
Knowing when it happened, the names of the attackers, the flight numbers and the planes that were used in the attack, and with the aid of a time machine,I could have prevented it too. However, that information was notavailable. The "failure rate" of intelligence services is hard to detect. One might say "How could they let 9/11 happen!?", but without the information that, and I'm just making this up to illustrate a point, that the CIA had stopped other horrific attacks on the AMerican public ad kept it quite to keep suorces protected, it's impossible to judge how many attacks were thwarted
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Swami]
#2188091 - 12/18/03 02:35 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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US warned of plot to hijack planes, attack buildings in 1995(CNN)
US planned Afganistan attack before 9-11(MSNBC)
Government officials warned to cancel flights on September 10th(Newsweek)
"Could the bombers have been stopped? NEWSWEEK has learned that while U.S. intelligence received no specific warning, the state of alert had been high during the past two weeks, and a particularly urgent warning may have been received the night before the attacks, causing some top Pentagon brass to cancel a trip. Why that same information was not available to the 266 people who died aboard the four hijacked commercial aircraft may become a hot topic on the Hill."
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Phred]
#2188166 - 12/18/03 03:10 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
This just in:
"World War II was Preventable"
That bastard Bush should invent time travel and go back and stop it.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Swami]
#2188171 - 12/18/03 03:11 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notice: AT NO TIME did I mention the words "Bush" or "conspiracy" so don't use them in a reply.
Yes you did. In the very sentence I pasted.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Swami]
#2188204 - 12/18/03 03:21 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: No excuse other than precedent. So we need a 911-type incident to prevent a 911-type incident?
You know those stupid warning on items. For example on a superman costume it says "Warning suit does not give you the ability to fly" or on candles, "Do not stick into body orifices"
Those warnings were not there originally. Some dumbass killed themself trying to fly or by misusing candles, the company was sued and THEN the warning was put on. It sucks but thats the way the world works.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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silversoul7
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Learyfan]
#2188210 - 12/18/03 03:24 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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I just find it incredible that the hijackers managed to attack us not once, not twice, but three times that day. Get us with one plane, you must be very lucky. With two, you must be really good. But three(one of which went into the PENTAGON, for God's sakes!), and you know someone in our government fucked up REALLY bad.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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d33p
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: silversoul7]
#2188216 - 12/18/03 03:29 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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I dont see how 3 would be any harder than 1 if they all occur at the same time as they did. The only thing i see as pathetic is that a few guys with box cutters took over a plane of 250 people.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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MetaShroom
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: d33p]
#2188241 - 12/18/03 03:38 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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These things happen, a few years ago an airliner was hijacked with a fire extinguisher and a bottle of whiskey, unfortunately it ended up crashing into the sea.
-------------------- JOIN MAPS -> www.MAPS.ORG
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Phred]
#2188290 - 12/18/03 04:03 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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You are of course aware that prior to 9/11, military planes were scrambled to intercept such stray planes in only roughly 25% of the cases. Yes, I know.... everyone always brings up Payne Webber's (or whatever the name of that golfer is) plane being intercepted when it went astray. No one ever brings up the over three hundred such incidents in the preceding year where fighters weren't scrambled.
first, where do you get your 25% figure?
second, of those 75% of cases where fighters weren't scrambled, how many of those cases included commericial airliners with more than 50 passengers?
third, payne stewart.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Phred
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: afoaf]
#2188650 - 12/18/03 07:29 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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first, where do you get your 25% figure?
FAA figures. There's a link to the site somewhere back in the posts from over a year ago when all the tinfoil hat crowd were going on about this. When the search function is up again, you could dig it up. The figures were something like (don't quote me on it, but it's pretty close) -- in the sixteen months (or fourteen or twelve or eighteen -- can't remember exactly) prior to 9/11, there were 426 (or thereabouts -- more than 400 but less than 450) incidents that met all the necessary criteria for the scramble of military interceptors. Interceptors were in fact scrambled just over 100 times. Thus my rough figure of 25%.
second, of those 75% of cases where fighters weren't scrambled, how many of those cases included commericial airliners with more than 50 passengers?
Dunno. But I presume any commercial airliner, even a FedEx 757 full of nothing but crew and packages and fuel, would have made quite a mess if crashed into a building.
The point is that everyone is treating the lack of immediate scrambling as some kind of amazing, unusual, never-before-heard-of event when in fact it was the norm.
third, payne stewart.
Yeah, that's the guy.
pinky
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Swami]
#2188665 - 12/18/03 07:36 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Swami writes:
So we need a 911-type incident to prevent a 911-type incident?
Yup. We needed a WWII type incident to prevent another WWII type incident.
So it WAS preventable, but those in charge were incompetent or lackadaisical.
*In most patient voice* Yes, Swami, that is my point entirely. That is why I made the WWII reference, and pointed out Clinton's incompetence and lackadaisical attitude towards bin Laden.
The point is, the title of the post is one of those "Well, DUH!" meaningless catchphrases that no one with an ounce of sense needed to have pointed out to him. OF COURSE it could have been prevented. We needed no commission to tell us that.
pinky
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Phred]
#2189098 - 12/18/03 11:03 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm happy this issue is getting press. Olberman was talking about it on "Countdown".
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: 9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable [Re: Learyfan]
#2189541 - 12/19/03 04:03 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said: I'm happy this issue is getting press. Olberman was talking about it on "Countdown".
But did he add this tidbit ....... Thursday, Dec. 18, 2003 10:55 p.m. EST 9/11 Chair: There's No Evidence to Blame Clinton or Bush Teams
WASHINGTON ? The chairman of a federal commission looking into the Sept. 11 attacks said Thursday that mistakes over many years left the United States vulnerable to such an attack, but he resisted pinning blame on either of the last two presidential teams.
"We have no evidence that anybody high in the Clinton administration or the Bush administration did anything wrong," chairman Thomas Kean said in an interview with ABC's "Nightline" taped for airing Thursday night.
Kean said the 10-member National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States has not decided whether to ask former President Clinton or President Bush to testify. He also said that any conclusions about the performance of high-level officials "will be reached when we are finished with our job, not now."
Kean sought to clarify remarks attributed to him in a CBS News report that aired Wednesday.
In the CBS interview, Kean said the commission's report, due May 27, will detail "what wasn't done and what should have be done" to prevent the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
He added, "There are people that, if I was doing the job, would certainly not be in the position they were in at that time because they failed."
CBS reported that Kean's comments constituted "pointing fingers inside the (Bush) administration and laying blame."
On Thursday, Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark labeled Kean's statements "disturbing" and said they showed the Bush administration could have done more to protect America from a terrorist attack.
Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., said Kean's comments meant "that Bush administration officials had valuable information that could have prevented the terrorist attacks."
But Kean said in Thursday's interview that he did not mean to suggest that certain federal officials should have been fired after Sept. 11. He said he was commenting on obvious mistakes that were made, such as letting terrorists into the country and letting dangerous items onto planes.
"There are a number of steps along the way, that if they had occurred differently, this event wouldn't have occurred," he said.
White House press secretary Scott McClellan said he reviewed the CBS report and did not believe Kean leveled accusations against the Bush administration.
"There is nothing that we have seen that leads us to believe that Sept. 11 could have been prevented," McClellan said.
Kean, a former Republican governor of New Jersey, was appointed by Bush to lead the bipartisan commission.
? 2003 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Here's a news headline for you....
Bush haters way too anxious. Appear as fools.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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