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Paradox of the ego
    #6472703 -

One thing I've found over my time studying mysticism is that those who are most adamant about annihilating the ego tend to be the most egotistical. Meanwhile, the truly humble tend to recognize their ego and understand it for what it is. It's similar to how meditation is not about eliminating thought, but observing one's thoughts. In a similar way, a humble person observes their ego rather than trying to destroy it or being controlled by it. To transcend the ego is to observe it from beyond its bounds.


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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: Silversoul]
    #6472740 -

Well said :thumbup: :thumbup:

True seeing is about seeing the ego for what it is: just an illusion created by our thoughts. When we stop taking it seriously and truly see it as it is, it is said to drop away of its own. I don't know about that, but it is liberating to see it for what it is.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: Silversoul]
    #6474020 -

"Why, oh why, did the Creator conceal from us poor inhabitants of Earth that it was not we who prompted Him to create the Heavens? Throughout my long life, I have served Him diligently, believing that He would notice my service and reward me with Eternal Bliss. And now, it seems that He was not even aware that I existed. You tell me that I am an infinitesimal animalcule on a tiny body revolving round an insignificant member of a collection of three hundred billion stars, which is only one of many millions of such collections. I cannot bear it..." -- The Theologians Nightmare

Mysticism seems like the most egotistical ideology around. I'm tired of hearing, "Well... you couldn't possibly understand the truth nature of this universe since you've never had this special experience that I have had. God only reveals himself to those like me." I've talked to some pretty conceited atheists, agnostics, Christians, Buddhists, etc, but at least none of them have claimed to be important enough for God to appear and show them what the hell is really going on. Some use the excuse that you must know some special method, which of course they know, to find God. This only seems to shift the conceit from their extraordinary self-importance to their stupendous self-perceived wisdom. Going around claiming you have had an experience that gives you special authority and that that experience is undoubtedly genuine seems like pure arrogance to me.

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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: Silversoul]
    #6474046 -

Silversoul said:
In a similar way, a humble person observes their ego rather than trying to destroy it or being controlled by it.  To transcend the ego is to observe it from beyond its bounds.


Ahh, but what is the "ego"? A collection of thought processes that act as a mental sense of identity? That's my definition. :cool:

When one becomes aware of their thoughts, then they can consciously choose their thoughts.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6474193 -

no big deal
but good realization


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6474243 -

Its not enertaining, yet simple and practical. :grin:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6474287 -

kewl


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I'm just passing thru u

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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6474398 -

MushmanTheManic said:
"Mysticism seems like the most egotistical ideology around. I'm tired of hearing, "Well... you couldn't possibly understand the truth nature of this universe since you've never had this special experience that I have had. God only reveals himself to those like me."


Some people get puffed up in regard to mystical experience. This should not discourage you from investigating the phenomena.

Mysticism itself actually has a long factional history between meek, humble devotees of the inner life alongside snobby, elitist body-hating parvenues.

Honestly, I don't doubt the later have had mystical experience - what is more likely is a poor incorporation of worldly wisdom from such experiences, and quite likely an assumption that such experiences are annointed, given its life-transforming implications. Even more likely, they're simply young and naive. The mystical experience is for personal transformation only, not for apologism and debate - and ironically, it has no vantage point as it's subjective to the experiencer.

Back on topic, Silversoul is wise in his observation of the nature of ego. "Crucify the Ego" (a notion that personally reminds me of the Spy versus Spy comic strip) ought to be replaced with the greater event of ascension and transcending. In daily life, the phone is always going to ring at some point in the day to interrupt our contemplation. It is wisdom to be in the world but not of it.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: Basilides]
    #6481110 -

Well said Basilides!
Paul of Tarsus said as much when he said "Gnosis puffs up" people. He was responding to the same phenomenon two millennia ago. Some things never change - bad and good.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: Basilides]
    #6481129 -

Hmmph... I guess your right. I'm admittedly biased from personal experiences. For some reason many people mistake me for a mystic-type and I often end up getting in arguments with these people. They start asking me about things like 2012, God, shamanism, etc and usually react insultingly when they tragically find out I disagree with them.

I'd like to note that most everyone who calls themselves a mystic on this site hasn't been concieted like those I've interacted with elsewhere. I just forgot to think about you when making my generalization. :blush:

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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6481172 -

MushmanTheManic said:
For some reason many people mistake me for a mystic-type


I'm guessing it's your enthusiasm for psytrance.


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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: Silversoul]
    #6488509 -

The ego is a freudian myth.


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Re: Paradox of the ego [Re: Silversoul]
    #6490542 -

While I do agree somewhat, I don't think everyone that is trying to dissolve the ego is egotistical. Thats more of a feature of western culture, look at monks in Tibet(*) for example. These people don't seem ego driven at all.

While I agree that some humble people can realize and then move beyond the ego, I personally think this is very tricky. After all, could that itself be one more trick of the ego??
I know its possible in some cases, to just acknowledge and move beyond, but it is very tricky.

Observing your thoughts alone is an ego activity, when done without careful attention. Still I dig what you're saying, and I guess it could be done... But it seems to me to be very tricky. And wrought with chances of failure.

Is it a good thing to try and accomplish, yes. But don't let your ego sucker you on the path to this goal.


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