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Dissolving self vs embracing identity
    #6259766 -

Those who have no awareness of being, spend their lives creating self.

Those who have awareness of being, spend their lives destroying self.

In life the easiest of paths is the former, creation of identity as a means of distancing from being.

Discuss?

- By destroy I mean distancing, the means by which we use meditation, hallucinogens, to dissolve self and be in touch with being.


Edited by Shattered (11/07/06 10:37 PM)

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Shattered]
    #6259791 -

I think the correct point of view is to see self as a conditional truth, while recognizing the ultimate truth of no-self.


--------------------

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Silversoul]
    #6259794 -

Just changed 'self' to 'being', too much confusion otherwise.

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Shattered]
    #6259830 -

what goes in must come out. it is the very nature of existence that the act of creating steps away from destroying, and vice versa. they're polarities and thus coincide with another integral duality that one act must be a state of higher awareness and the other of lower awareness [unconscious behavior.]

i think we can't help but accept the flow of yin and yang, whether one of them is the easier path is pretty subjective in my opinion. i actually find it easier to destroy rather than to create, it involves less energy, and ultimately this shows that i/we have my/our own preferences, even when it comes to most basic fundamental things in life.

:earth: :yinyang: :shineon:

Edited by AlteredAgain (11/07/06 10:54 PM)

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Silversoul]
    #6259838 -

Silversoul said:
I think the correct point of view is to see self as a conditional truth, while recognizing the ultimate truth of no-self.


simply put :thumbup:

:earth: :yinyang: :shineon:


--------------------

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6260003 -

Isn't that saying, I know that i'm conditioned but I accept my conditioning?

When I truly felt my own being, the conditioned self felt more like a master than a servant. The only time I felt in control was while feeling my being.

Self appears more like the actual conditioning, than a duality of self into self and being. As though any deep programming is intrinsic to self, or where it's processed and replicated when programming others and our selves.

When I was in touch with being, all restraints of the mind and ego were gone.

I'll try not to be so dualistic and absolute, but it's not easy and I get ahead of myself.

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Shattered]
    #6260886 -

I know that i'm conditioned but I accept my conditioning?

Good idea IMO. The human personality is conditioning and programs. Stalking or becomming aware of them is a good idea. I have found removing them to be daunting. Especially the early conditioning. I have had my best success using only awareness rather than some kind of force. Awareness affords us the opportunity of a pause and possibly a choice of action.

I prefer to be aware of my conditioning and be amused if possible.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Icelander]
    #6262240 -

Stalking sounds familiar, Carlos Casteneda yeah?

I've been getting around to re-reading those books for a while.

Good point of view :smile:

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Shattered]
    #6262463 -

I read something recently that summed it up for me nicely.

So like you presented, it recapped that many started getting glimpses and then experiences of what it feels like to be at one with the true self as you put it.

It feels great and we love it and think this is the ideal so we start dismantling any facet of the ego and beliefs that support the experience of separation.

However, what it said has been happening to many as of late who have been enjoying the merge with the one again is that, they have been loosing that feeling, have been starting to feel separated again and are wondering if they are doing something wrong or sliding backwards.

The article assured that all is well and as it should be. It said that the ideal at this stage is to balance now awareness between the individuated self and the one self/true self.

Our individuated consciousness and physical experience has a purpose. We can better explore the oneself through individuation as it allows for us to interact with mirror reflections and just to reflect ourselves off of others, work in groups and communities, and share ideas to expediat the process of self knowing/understanding.

It discussed working to balance maintaining an awareness of the One true self, along with the individuated sense of self at the same time.

It said that so many of us were taught we should just go back to the one in awareness and ditch as much of our individuated identity as possible and that, its actually counter productive to the over all plan of being able to explore the nature of the One self and consciousness through individuation and with others.


It said to not fall back into separation beliefs anymore for sure, but just not fore go the experience of individuation either. We can be aware in both simultaneously and work at balancing that out.

It said that we won't be given the easy assistance to experience the One true self alone anymore and that to experience it, we would have to come together in groups and communities more and experience it through resonance and co-operation and sharing in the love that is, with and through others.

It also spoke of working to enjoy and appreciate your individuality  and being alone at times, different then lonely.

Though while in physicality we are separated in body, we never have to be or experience it in spirit with each other.

So the suggestion made reasonable sense to me while in physicality that there is no good reason to feel like we have to choose between the two. We can choose be aware of ourselves as BOTH at the same time.

The ONE by itself would go crazy without another to reflect off of. Regarding love it would be akin to masturbation. It takes two or more to make more love in the universe and this way the love can multiply and the One can expand, not to mention expediate self knowing/understanding through multitudes of individuals all doing it at the same time and sharing notes.

No more feeling like I eventually have to give up one for the other in this life time. I'll keep the best of both in play.

:heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Shattered]
    #6262587 -

Shattered said:
Those who have no awareness of being, spend their lives creating self.

Those who have awareness of being, spend their lives destroying self.



We curious monkeys like to split things right in two. :grin:

I personally do not recognize the validity of the duality that you describe. I personally focus on refining and advancing the self so that I am capable of understanding reality more and of being able to navigate reality, while, at the same time, ensuring that the self is transparent to my direct perception of reality, the present experience of being reality.

I do not think that the concept of those who are aware of their state of being seek to "destroy" the self is a valid one, or one that is reflective of reality.

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6262730 -

That made a lot of sense

I have been fighting ever since I experienced oneness. The problem i've found, and you've explained it well, is for instance the last few days i've been feeling soooo blissful in my sober state, and then today i'm exhausted from it. Much to think about in finding balance.

The self really does feel like an enemy when compared to that blissful state of being.

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6262743 -

fireworks_god said:
We curious monkeys like to split things right in two. :grin:

I personally do not recognize the validity of the duality that you describe. I personally focus on refining and advancing the self so that I am capable of understanding reality more and of being able to navigate reality, while, at the same time, ensuring that the self is transparent to my direct perception of reality, the present experience of being reality.

I do not think that the concept of those who are aware of their state of being seek to "destroy" the self is a valid one, or one that is reflective of reality.

:levitate:


This monkey lost his bananas a looong time ago.

I see duality everywhere, even when I try not to see it, i'm thinking 'ok i'm either thinking of duality or i'm not thinking of duality' Which is just another duality.

Make it stop!

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Shattered]
    #6262844 -

And I reckon it's weird because whenever i'm totally connected to everything, all I want to do is give up my identity and live in a forest meditating for rest of my life.

I'm reverting from man to animal. Maybe everything is reversed and instead of coming from animals, we're becomming them! :smile:

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Shattered]
    #6263033 -

If that made sense to you then I will PM you the article.

Interesting, when I was caught up in the oneness mode for several months at a time  with some dips to almost a whole year stretch, I had MORE energy, needed less sleep and less food.

Being in a duality conflict struggle, is probably why you are exhausted. The article will help.

At the time, I was loving floating around la la land just knowing to much for my good in expanded awareness. I was loving the natural high on life and constant buzz. It was like being on what I use to call cosmic heroin.

It did creep some everyday people out when I'd talk seeing right through them as if its so natural and everyone does it, but you forget they don't, and they look at you like you are invading their privacy.  There is none when we are one and the same being of energy. Information just pours in through the sublte planes.

Then, it got to where I realized, though I was sharing in the oneness vibe with my Spritual friends on the same wavelength, I wasn't relating to important people in my every day life as well and wanted to drop back down and in some more again.

But how? I felt like a helium balloon being aware in the observer mode out of body. I didn't even know how far gone I was until one day, I realized I had been driving my car watching the road from about 3 feet above the roof. It was a strange time. Watching people walk started freaking me out as they looked so  cumbersome like they weighed 10 tons lugging these bodies around and soo unnatural.

It would've seemed more normal to me if they were feather light and floating around. It took about a year to get fully back in body and another 6 months to get more resonant with everyday people.

Prior to that, I had to go off of memory of what it was like to be in separation 3-D consciousness to carry off a normal conversation. (even still I have a hard time, its not long before I can get into esoteric gibberish and not notice how much I shifted in just one reply or conversation off the boards.)

During oneness mode, people complained a lot about problems and dramas and I was giving solutions. They didn't want that. They wanted to complain and be heard. I didn't get it, and they didn't get me.  I started making up problems or just agreeing with them about how much their situation sucked. 3-D :lol:

When you blow up and out, all truly is well with the universe. You see the reason for and behind everything including what from duality perspective would be the most evil, sinister, diabolical worst of it. From the oneness view, it all makes perfect sense and has a purpose and you can't help but to love everyone and forgive it all on spot. You see solutions to life problems easily, and roadways to take you to whereever you want to go as everything is lit up. Infinite options and ways open up.

Yet, sometimes, that state felt isolating and could even get lonely. You can no longer relate to 3-Ders and the spiritual ones you can relate too, see everything just like you do. So even though you were with others, it was like being by yourself sometimes.

The diversity of the shroomery P&S and MR&P forums has a good blend for balancing out. Its easier to come from varying places of awareness here and mesh.

Getting a little materialistic again helped me the most to drop in vibration. Now, its just a matter of the balancing act. Lately , its been difficult to catch lift and "see" like I use too. That's been weird and I miss it. I have to start throwing some shit over board to lighten up a bit more I think. :lol:

Hue are you reading here? Remember those conversations with Def about our wanting to break back in and his wanting to stay in floating and flying mode?

Funny how we spend so much time and effort trying to bust out of the system and free ourselves from it when we start waking up, only to end up wanting to break back into it. But its better the second time around because you can take that higher awareness and memory back in with you and are free to come and go through the door as you please.

It'll smooth out for you soon enough.  :cool:

Well, I'll shoot that article out to you and I hope it helps with the current struggle you are dealing with and puts it all into perspective.

:heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6263075 -

Man, if your experiences and view on it all is something I have to look forward to, I can't wait. Thank you for sending the article. :smile:

I don't know a single person in real life who can relate to this, so shroomery is my outlet. I often wonder how long it would take to be arrested or put in a psych ward, when simply walking around grinning at EVERYTHING and just having the sense that all things are infinite and life is perfect.

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Shattered]
    #6263123 -

Life is a never-ending search for a higher-calling and a deeper meaning. If we finally achieve oneness, who will let us know?

Sometimes I think that the quest to find the 'true' self is only an illusion to keep digging deeper into your collective unconscious.  Underneath all the delusions and garbage we've polluted our minds with, whether it be society, fashion, crime, tragedy, greed, lust -- I think we're all the same innocent child spirits just searching for a place to finally rest.

If by 'being one', you mean being emotionally self-sufficient and open to the beauty of the world and are at peace and calm, then yes, I am at once with myself. But my life does not end here. There is always something new to be discovered in life, in nature, in others, and in turn, you'll find that in yourself. The world is big and vast and filled with opportunity. I find "myself" everywhere I go. I can see myself in people, in things, in cultures. The world is a truly beautiful and remarkable place.

Probably went off topic. But it was just a thought for the moment. :smile:

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Shattered]
    #6263131 -

Shattered said:
I often wonder how long it would take to be arrested or put in a psych ward, when simply walking around grinning at EVERYTHING and just having the sense that all things are infinite and life is perfect.


As long as you are not naked, I don't comprehend how you would be locked up for walking around with a goofy grin on your face.

:lol: That just reminded me of something.

When I was on vacation, I was in a friend's wedding. Afterwards, all of the groomsmen got really stoned while we were traveling around to different locations to take pictures at. Then we were to get our picture taken entering the reception, which was at a hotel. I was so incredibly stoned that it was just unusual, and right after I had my picture taken, I walked out.

Anyways, my truck was at another one of the groomsmen's house (I had got in their vehicle at the time to smoke many bowls in a steamroller). Anyways, I start walking down the sidewalk down the main road in town, in a fancy tuxedo, and wearing my sunglasses. The experience was overwhelming, and the police were parked up ahead. After I passed them, they slowly followed me down the road and, when they had passed me and knew I could see them, they stepped on it. :lol:

Very similar to what I think you are describing. :grin:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6263865 -

hey jiggy can you post a link to that article your speaking of?

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Shattered]
    #6264039 -

My beating heart,
I pray I will not be banned for this

:earth:

every second this painting sickens me,....
not only the way it moves, but the way it beats,
faster in unison as the man tears apart that which we love.
I can not stand for this, or that which might wash me away.
The tide comes, the tide heals... the tide ignores me as I heel.
Step up the the plate, place you feet upon the boundary.





I love MarkosTheAgnostic like my father, because he loved even greater than he.


I can't express myself right now, the world is falling apart..
I may be banned, I may be silenced from this forum forever,
but I wish in the heart of a flower to not be shut up,
to speak to you in lavender ryhmes and make poets out of nature,.


This is the sun and moon, in a dogs eyes,
Look in his eyes, and tell me it's not locks.
Locks of love.




--------------------
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Decides Who's Left."

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Re: Dissolving self vs embracing identity [Re: Kerbouchard]
    #6264412 -

What the hell are you talking about? What gives you the impression that you would be banned for presenting your perspective on a topic? :wtf:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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