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Offlinechasingstardna
Hypervigilance

Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 90
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
H e a v e n
    #1912176 - 09/13/03 10:51 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The word, as much as the place has been made up.

Heaven is.. the sky or universe as seen from the earth; the firmament.
Or, in Christianity: often Heaven is The abode of God, the angels, and the souls of those who are granted salvation.
An eternal state of communion with God; everlasting bliss.
Any of the places in or beyond the sky conceived of as domains of divine beings in various religions.

Remind me again, what reasons, or better--what facts have been given to prove that this "heaven" really exists?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: H e a v e n [Re: chasingstardna]
    #1912219 - 09/13/03 11:30 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Facts refer to sensory data and their interpretation by rational-analytical thought. This empirical knowledge, or 'Episteme,' is not the faculty by which spiritual knowledge, or 'Gnosis' is acquired. Those of us who have lived a long life of faith, who are not spiritually handicapped, have experienced "Heaven" at various times of our lives. It is not a spacio-temporal 'place,' but rather God's immanence which is experienced in what theologian Paul Tillich called "The Eternal Now." The key to Heaven is not death, even though psychophysical death removes the 'veils' that seem to separate us from Heaven while in the body. The key to Heaven is Love - pure selfless compassion which acts as altruism, and which feels ecstatic and timeless. It is being in this state of Love while yet alive that continues in death, because this Love is of the nature of God, Who is Eternal. It is this Love that constitutes Transcendence over our spacio-temporal limitations.

We 'Know,' through faith in the Words attributed to Jesus the Christ, and from those who followed and made their own experiments with Truth by living according to those teachings, and reaping the rewards while yet alive. "Seek the Kingdom of Heaven and its righteousness, and all things will be added to you." This principle has been manifested in my own life, from humble beginnings as an impoverished student, I have been given much by God in things spiritual, mental and physical. My life has not been strifeful, yet I have prospered, and I wish to share the Truth of the Way. Ultimately, I will lose all, except Love, which is Heaven, which is Eternal Life and Light. Until that moment, I will give thanks all day long for the tangible things that have been made available to me with such Knowing Precision, that only God could have 'arranged.'

This then is my witness to you about Heaven. Heaven dwells in my Heart Center, radiating Light through my Throat and Head Centers that I may better communicate It's Presence to you and others who ask of It's whereabouts. My question is: will you now seek Heaven through the door of your own spiritual Heart? "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened." (Matthew 7:7)


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineunderground
welcome to the underground

Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 191
Loc: colorful colorado
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: H e a v e n [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1912247 - 09/13/03 11:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Everyone is trying to get to the bar.
The name of the bar, the bar is called Heaven.
The band in Heaven plays my favorite song.
Then play it once again, they play it all night long.

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.

There is a party, everyone is there.
Everyone will leave at exactly the same time.
Its hard to imagine that nothing at all
could be so exciting, and so much fun.

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.

When this kiss is over it will start again.
It will not be any different, it will be exactly the same.
It's hard to imagine that nothing at all
could be so exciting, could be so much fun.

Heaven is a place where nothing every happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing every happens.

-talking heads


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Offlinechasingstardna
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Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 90
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Re: H e a v e n [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1912282 - 09/13/03 12:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Facts refer to sensory data and their interpretation by rational-analytical thought. This empirical knowledge, or 'Episteme,' is not the faculty by which spiritual knowledge, or 'Gnosis' is acquired.




Yes, and those facts are what put us through life and help us make life-altering decisions. I need facts. Spiritual knowledge is often acquired by fact, too. I would consider myself a very open-minded person, but seeing is believing.

Heaven as a state, or emotion -- or just an extreme sense of well being, I can understand. The concept of heaven as a place, as a permanent residence after death is what baffles me.

Altruism towards others? Selflessness will bring you love, not heaven. Love is a feeling, not a fact, nor a key to heaven. My opinion, of course, but feelings (which most people base their non-factual beliefs on) are not enough for me to rest on.

I don't seek heaven; I question it's existence.


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
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Re: H e a v e n [Re: chasingstardna]
    #1912606 - 09/13/03 02:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well IMO when the beings from heaven get mentioned in various religions. Its sounds alot like beings that visited us from other planets. Think about it, if you belived the Earth was flat and didnt have any knowlede that we live on one of many planets or where the atmosphere ends and space begins, and you saw Extraterestials coming from the sky, the sky wich at night was lit up by little lights. Wouldnt you belive these beings lived somewhere in the clouds?? I belive early in our civilization we had a special connection with beings of superior intellegence. There is clues to this connection all over the old testement. Even on other religious books. Our advancements in technology and its origins. Wether todays UFO sightings are legitimite i dont know. But at some point in our history, especially at the beggining we had this connection. Maybe they brought us here, maybe we were their slaves, maybe they actually created us, or maybe..........They are still among us.


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Offlinechasingstardna
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Registered: 08/27/03
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Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: H e a v e n [Re: Spokesman]
    #1913934 - 09/13/03 10:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting thought.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: H e a v e n [Re: chasingstardna]
    #1914184 - 09/14/03 12:31 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"God is love." (1 John 4:8). We're not talking about emotion here. That is the common use of the English word, not the specificity of 'philias,' or 'eros,' or 'agape.' We're not talking about 'I love chocolate,' or even, 'I love my wife,' we're talking pure metaphysics ('prior to physics'), not creation but Creator. All I can do is define the differences linguistically. I cannot apprehend the Divine Infra-Structure of Reality for you. For me, doubts are occasional clouds that occult the Light of Unmitigated Reality. They disperse because they are illusory in comparison to Eternity which I experience in different degrees throughout the time-line of my life. I am one with the Divine Ocean of Existence, yet I, like most people think of myself only as a separate 'wave,' that is born of the Ocean, moves for a while, and dissipates on 'the Other Shore.' My hope is to Realize my identity with the Ocean, because in that Realization lies Eternal Life. I hope the same for you friend.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: H e a v e n [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1914770 - 09/14/03 06:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I am one with the Divine Ocean of Existence, yet I, like most people think of myself only as a separate 'wave,' that is born of the Ocean, moves for a while, and dissipates on 'the Other Shore.' My hope is to Realize my identity with the Ocean, because in that Realization lies Eternal Life. I hope the same for you friend. 




Ahhh... sweet! :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
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Registered: 08/05/03
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Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: H e a v e n [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1914889 - 09/14/03 09:40 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

ok...........................


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: H e a v e n [Re: Spokesman]
    #1915006 - 09/14/03 11:28 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
ok...........................




Just never thought of the ocean analogy before, but it is pretty fucking sweet.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblespudamore
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: H e a v e n [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1917689 - 09/15/03 10:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

how can you put something infinate into finate reasoning? you just carn't. its just the matter of if you beleive and faith.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Posts: 24,849
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Re: H e a v e n [Re: spudamore]
    #1917774 - 09/15/03 11:57 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

spudamore said:
how can you put something infinate into finate reasoning? you just carn't. its just the matter of if you beleive and faith.




You can't put the infinite in finite reasoning, but you can understand the infinite... Communicating it to others is quite the task, though.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleLeonopoly
Stranger

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 24
Re: H e a v e n [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1920674 - 09/16/03 06:12 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Heaven is in your heart.


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