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The decline of the recording industry
    #6258920 -

disclaimer: Im not trying to hate on anyones hobby/job or their supposed skills in this area.

With the advent of Pro-tools, a slightly user-friendly but advanced recording GUI program at a reasonable price, every kid on the block gets a Digi system and thinks they are Rick Reuben...
Many of these friends have friends in bands, and are always spouting about how they could record them for nothing or next to nothing... the band hears this and says "D00d, hes got pro-tools!".

I should know... I used to be one of these people. Then, I did something which instilled me with more false competence--- i graduated from Full Sail with a recording degree.

Most studios make a good portion of their money from bands cutting demos and EP's... but now many of them are getting it done, usually incorrectly, at their buddies home studio.
Making an album is serious work, and takes a lot of time and money to do properly, and if you aren't going to take it seriously, then why expect a label to take you seriously when you hand them a shitty sounding and mixed product?

But here is the good news, all the recording studios, atleast in the United States, have reduced their rates by about 50%... so now, it is quite cheap to have an EP cut and there is no need to give some guy who thinks they know how to mix 25 dollars an hour, when you can have professionals do it for just a little more than that.

Most of these bands that go to home studios are happy with the end result, because they are comparing it to their garage recordings... but if you were to go to a studio, and have it done right, you will be amazed.

But psilocyberin... what makes you think you know what you are talking about now?

well, after working at 3 different studios over the course of 3 years, moving up the ranks from intern to A2 in Orlando, New Orleans and Nashville.... I finally had to get out, because there was no money in it.... even the head engineers were making crap money after 18 hour days.
And now for the last 3 years I have been mixing live sound. So for 6 years I have worked with musicians and bands in almost every single genre, in both recording and live situations... and I see a lot of the same mistakes: letting a friend/parent manage them,recording in a home studio, trying to go take financial shortcuts.

So... if you really believe in the band, or your act, go to a studio and dont go the cheap route.

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6260356 -

Amen!

But damn are sound engineers really makin so little... :frown:
What about producers?


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."


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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: eligal]
    #6260366 -

the term "producer" is widely misunderstood. It isnt merely managing artistic perspective.
A producer is the person behind the album, like the director of a film. They make most, if not all the decisions regarding sound, live image, booking studio time, making sure the band uses their studio time to the fullest, hiring session musicians, engineers, sometimes picking songs to go on the album..... They are more often the bureaucratic training wheels for bands, supporting them while they go through the album making process.

just because you sit next to the engineer and tell him to make that kick drum "bigger" doesnt make you a producer.... it only makes you a jackass bothering the engineer and the intern will be in shortly to distract you for an hour or so, so that real work can be done.

There are only about 50 real producers in the United States i would say, and the real producers make shitloads of money.

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6260387 -

riiiiiight....


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."


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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: eligal]
    #6261357 -

Im all for home recording....only because ive got a pretty damn good ear of my own though.

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6261462 -

psilocyberin said:
the term "producer" is widely misunderstood. It isnt merely managing artistic perspective.
A producer is the person behind the album, like the director of a film. They make most, if not all the decisions regarding sound, live image, booking studio time, making sure the band uses their studio time to the fullest, hiring session musicians, engineers, sometimes picking songs to go on the album..... They are more often the bureaucratic training wheels for bands, supporting them while they go through the album making process.

just because you sit next to the engineer and tell him to make that kick drum "bigger" doesnt make you a producer.... it only makes you a jackass bothering the engineer and the intern will be in shortly to distract you for an hour or so, so that real work can be done.

There are only about 50 real producers in the United States i would say, and the real producers make shitloads of money.


ok.....

That may be one way of using the term producer but its not the only way. A person who produces and releases a track in their own MIDI studio can also be called a producer...


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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6261501 -

YES YES YES!

someone gets it!

Much respect to you Psil.
My level of frustration regarding this topic is endless.

But, i guess we do what we do, for our own reasons.

As apose to 90% of the people wo run aruond with fruityloops looking to call themselves "PRODUCERS" just for the title.


Hit me up brother. Would be good to chat with a fellow audiophile.

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6261513 -

psilocyberin said:
the term "producer" is widely misunderstood. It isnt merely managing artistic perspective.
A producer is the person behind the album, like the director of a film. They make most, if not all the decisions regarding sound, live image, booking studio time, making sure the band uses their studio time to the fullest, hiring session musicians, engineers, sometimes picking songs to go on the album..... They are more often the bureaucratic training wheels for bands, supporting them while they go through the album making process.

just because you sit next to the engineer and tell him to make that kick drum "bigger" doesnt make you a producer.... it only makes you a jackass bothering the engineer and the intern will be in shortly to distract you for an hour or so, so that real work can be done.

There are only about 50 real producers in the United States i would say, and the real producers make shitloads of money.


I am loving you more and more..lol

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: Osker246]
    #6262527 -

Osker246 said:
ok.....

That may be one way of using the term producer but its not the only way. A person who produces and releases a track in their own MIDI studio can also be called a producer...




producers dont make "tracks", they make albums. If you make a track, you are a musician, or arranger/composer. The only reason it is acceptable to call yourself a producer after making a track is because people dont know what they are talking about.

The funny thing is, is that you really cant call yourself a producer, it is a title that is bestowed on you. If you go around calling yourself a producer, it might impress people that dont know shit, but you will reveal yourself for the fool you are to people who matter in the industry.

Sure, you are producing something in the sense that a furniture maker produces tables... but you dont see them walking around saying "I produce tables"..... no they say "I make tables".

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6264473 -

the main reason i like doing my own recording is for experimentation reasons. i like to fuck around with things alot and i change stuff constantly because i'm indecisive most of the time. i also like the lack of pressure. i find it harder to be creative with some stranger breathing down my neck an getting impatient with me. i've been in studios and i could never be happy with anything if i was in a rush to do it cuz of a small budget especially since i'd constantly want to change things and waste a bunch of time. it's an attitude that causes alot of problems for me.

you're right about everyone thinking they're sound engineers though. i'm at least aware that my stuff sucks for the most part. i know so many people trying to start studios, and while some of them went to school for it and some of them just figured things out through hard work, there's an equal number who don't really know what they're are doing, and i often wonder if some people are aware of how flooded this market is. seems like a bad investment right now to me, but i guess it would be a cool job if it paid well.

is full sail the sound school down in orlando? i havea friend who graduated from that place a few years back. he's currently waiting tables.

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #6264552 -

It's a terrible investment if you are looking for money.


TERRIBLE.

People LOVE the title. But thats all.

People need to stop watching VH1 behind the music, and need to start being real.

Everyone on myspace is an "Upcoming star", everyone brags about their "PASSION" for music and their "DRIVE" which is ultimately going to let make it in the industry..because "FAILURE ISNT AN OPTION". It makes me sick.

people are walking cliches. repeating the same shit they have been hearing from as long as they can remember.

If these people had to choose between
1) not knowing a single thing about their field but being "known and loved" by everyone. EX: "yooo thats dj idiot..i LOVE dj idiot!..YOU ROCK MAN"
or
2) Being great at what they do and loving the science, but never being recognized by anyone.
I beleive most would pick the first choice.

They love the image and the concept.
But if you ask them to talk about parallel compression or their recoridng techniques, they look at you like your an idiot and say: "nahh , its about the beats yo, i make da ill beats - fuity loops is all i need, imm that good!, other shit is too complicated, its pointless, why cant they just make it easy"

grrrr, or then you have the dance music demographic that have guys who sequence a few loops and call themselves a producer, talking about "taking music to the higher level...being a producer/remixer/dj - (never even having even played anywhere).

People LOVE the titles. They love to present it ANY chance they get.

everyone has DJ "whatever" as a name...
everyone talks about..ROCKING DA CLUBSS..WHA WHA..


grr, sorry if im coming off as ignorant, but im simply ranting. This is something that has bothered me for as long as i can remember.

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: GSxx83]
    #6264561 -

and for the record, audio engineers/mixing engineer for music (post is another story), MAKE VERY LITTLE MONEY! -

I've had the pleasure of workng with and being taught by some of the industry's(i hate that word) finest/legends.

Guys who have mixed albums for hendricks, bob dylan, nas, biggie (life and death album) and many many more.



sure, they each have a nice collection of platinum and gold records in their offices. With their names, nicely etched -giving credit.

but guess what.
These guys are driving KIAS and TEACHING part time to make ends meet.

The modern day "pocket studio" and hugeeee number of new wanna-be "producers", have hurt this business more than we all know.

Edited by GSxx83 (11/09/06 10:29 AM)

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: GSxx83]
    #6264902 -

GSxx83 said:
grrrr, or then you have the dance music demographic that have guys who sequence a few loops and call themselves a producer, talking about "taking music to the higher level...being a producer/remixer/dj - (never even having even played anywhere).




You dont even know what your talkin about....

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: Osker246]
    #6265712 -

you right, i dont.

We'll leave it at that.

If i knew i was on trial to have to prove myself..i wouldn't have ranted in short hand. I would have taken the time to be as technical as possible.

Thats for another board though.

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: GSxx83]
    #6265725 -

[DELETED]
Not looking to argue. All opinions respected. bye.

Edited by GSxx83 (11/09/06 04:35 PM)

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6265747 -

do you have an opinion on digital vs analog equipment? I know that individuals like Steve Albini are totally opposed to using digital.

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: GSxx83]
    #6265791 -

But, to add one thing.

As a working audio engineer and EDM DJ for over 10 years(active, not bedroom), who has worked hard and spent(and continues) to spend a big part of his life obsessing over the science of audio - I have a right to get a little annoyed with such topics.
If you think i dont know what im talking about, thats fine. I respect that(seriously). Its a msg board, no big deal. For all i know, you could meet me, and still beleive that i know nothing(or not). Thats the nature of the beast.

But when you dedicate yourself to something, because its something you always loved(especially the whole dj thing), its easy to get pissed off, when you see EVERYONE imaginable giving themselves titles, without having earned anything. Its the new trend. seriously WHO DOESNT CALL THEMSELVES A DJ THESE DAYS?.lol Seems like all someone needs is a cd player, a mixer and limewire.

The image is the quick fix. (IMO) and people can start to talk as if if they know, when in reality, all they do is google a little after cracking an peice of audio software. Never really having spent hours and days in a room teaching yourself and loving every second, no matter how frustrating or simple the task may be.

I have a very negative view when it comes to topics such as these, but like i said. Its JUST my opinion.

Also, i dont know where everyone is from. But in NYC - The dance culture has been so oversaturated, that its become the equivalent of britney spears. The scene is more about image than quality.

Edited by GSxx83 (11/09/06 05:00 PM)

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: Vvellum]
    #6265812 -

bi0 said:
do you have an opinion on digital vs analog equipment? I know that individuals like Steve Albini are totally opposed to using digital.


Its a tough call.
Its a FACT, that analog sounds better. BUT, to an untrained ear and with the right processing, you can get an equally effective sound with a much lower budget. If your doing electronic music (hip hop,trance,house etc) - digital is PERFECTLY fine. With that click, its a standard.

If your recording bands, yeah the digital technology has evolved alot. Getting your mix to sound nice and warm is possible. (Most studios use a PT HD system anyway (digital).

BUTTTT

many bands, like the red hot chili peppers still record onto analog tape, through analog boards. The product speaks for itself.

In the end, it all comes down to how the gear is used and what the final product sounds like.

new schoolers are happy with digital, but alot of the old school guys ive worked with, still sware to this day that they will die with analog.

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: GSxx83]
    #6265924 -

Ok first off ingnor my last post I misunderstood when I read it this morning. Im not really a morning person...

I can pretty much agree with ya on all that your pointing out about how people lable themselves as a Dj/producer/remixer. I myself have been mixing for a few years and I know the difference between an actual Dj and some wannabe Dj. Or a true artist who releases a piece of work using proper equipment compared to a 10 year old working with fruity loops.

Hell im just now getting involved with making music. Will I go to school for it? Probably not it cost to much to go for training in a field that is already competitive enough.

"Its the new trend. seriously WHO DOESNT CALL THEMSELVES A DJ THESE DAYS?"

Anybody can be a DJ since all a Dj does is play music. The thing that sets you apart from everybody else is skill and devotion. If I can see a Dj giving it all he's got and making the music sound great he deserves the tittle of being called a "Dj". But if I see a person who doesnt give a shit and doing it for the attention i'll just disregard the person. Theres always going to be people trying to be something they're not. The only thing you can really do is ingnor it and not let it get to you.

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Re: The decline of the recording industry [Re: Osker246]
    #6266194 -

here is another on topic post regarding Myspace.

Im not sure if they have implemented it yet, but Myspace will start allowing people to sell their music through the website.
I am probably the biggest anti-myspace person, mainly from disgust with personal advertising and image projection, but even when i bring up these salient points in a myspace argument, the last bastion of defense is "Well, it is good to get your band known"...... yeah, and how many bands have been signed as a direct result of Myspace?

Any album that is actually distributed, even "ambient soundscapes" were professionally recorded in a studio.... Pro-tools/fruityloops/reason in conjunction with Myspace has people thinking they are only one listen away from making it big.

in regards to analog vs digital: in the next few years the sampling rate of digital recording gear will be so incredibly high that it will mimic analog perfectly. Most studios I have worked at have a 2-inch and most of the tracking was done on that and the mixing in digital world.... because the sampling rates have been high enough to keep the fidelity of the analog warmth, yet give the ease of GUI mixing.

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