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OfflineJordainio
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Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 226
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Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: gluke bastid]
    #14900395 - 08/10/11 12:03 PM (11 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

Jordainio said:
Fuck why is this so old...I just need to comment on here anyway to save this thread for myself quickly and re read it over and over...
but thanks very much for this post which basically destroys my dreams.
Heh, thanks though man it's hard out here for a drummer.




The thing is, this was written by Albini, I believe, back in the 90s. Back then, at least some people were making money from record sales. This is no longer the case due to the internet. If you want to make money as a musician you either need to play high paying gigs, or sell your music to commercial/movie soundtracks. Unfortunately to achieve either, you need to go through the people who control those avenues. That means booking agents, managers, publishers, PR people and synch specialists.

Its a hell of a business. Don't quit your day job. But hey if you love it you'll do it regardless, right?



LOL it is my day job!!! just usually really low on money, prolly would be with any other job in this shitty economy thats definately going to get worse.


--------------------
Also, if anyone is selling cymbals or drum equipment, email me right now!
<span class="spoiler" onmouseover="this.className='nospoiler'" onmouseout="this.className='spoiler'">Distant and unimagined realms lie hidden all around us. Not only do we deny things that we CAN see, but many many more that we do not. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively

hahahaha, P4N3D!!!!!1!


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OfflineNlightNme
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Registered: 10/13/08
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Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: Jordainio]
    #14900496 - 08/10/11 12:35 PM (11 years, 4 days ago)

I'm a musician and this doesn't worry me that much. Grant it I'm not a musician for the sake of making money but still.

As someone mentioned earlier, Tool shows that it is possible to avoid all this bullshit. If some A&R guy ever tries to talk to me about anything I'll just stick to WWTD.


--------------------
Tenet Nosce


You tell me the music industry is dead. I tell you that music never should have been industrialized in the first place.


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: gluke bastid]
    #14910884 - 08/12/11 01:34 PM (11 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

Jordainio said:
Fuck why is this so old...I just need to comment on here anyway to save this thread for myself quickly and re read it over and over...
but thanks very much for this post which basically destroys my dreams.
Heh, thanks though man it's hard out here for a drummer.




The thing is, this was written by Albini, I believe, back in the 90s. Back then, at least some people were making money from record sales. This is no longer the case due to the internet. If you want to make money as a musician you either need to play high paying gigs, or sell your music to commercial/movie soundtracks. Unfortunately to achieve either, you need to go through the people who control those avenues. That means booking agents, managers, publishers, PR people and synch specialists.

Its a hell of a business. Don't quit your day job. But hey if you love it you'll do it regardless, right?





I'm sorry but I can't agree with anything you just said. There are plenty of ways to make money as a musician. People just need to get the idea of being some rockstar who goes around playing gigs to hundreds of  thousands and having their cd's heard by everyone out of their head. It's unrealistic.

Just a few probably lesser-considered ways of making a decent-living off being a musician.

- Regular gigs (yes they don't need to be high paying gigs as long as you gig regularly). I'd also like to add that doing gigs is for the most part something on the side for a musician. More something they enjoy, but with the bonus of some tax free money in the pocket.

- Teaching. Yeah, it's not for everyone, but it pays damn good. This requires a lot of musical ability and knowledge but private instrumental lessons are pretty stress-free and very high paying. Why not do them out of your own house even? Also consider teaching at a high school :thumbdown: , or music college :thumbup:

- Session playing. For those of who who don't know what being a session musician involves, you basically prostitute your musical services to those who need you. Let's say you play some crazy good funk bass. Some funk band/performer is recording an album and they need some crazy good funk bassist to play on a few of their songs. Well the recording studio will contact you and hook you up with a good deal. (You can make SERIOUSLY good money being a session musician, although you also need to be seriously good in the first place).

I'm taking too long so I'll just skip through a few more...

- Live mixing
- Sound engineering
- Music therapy  :peace:
- Composing (for more than commercials. There are some seriously talented people out there who compose music for various things (movies, games, videos, documentaries, etc.))


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: birdland]
    #14913213 - 08/12/11 10:47 PM (11 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

birdland said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

Jordainio said:
Fuck why is this so old...I just need to comment on here anyway to save this thread for myself quickly and re read it over and over...
but thanks very much for this post which basically destroys my dreams.
Heh, thanks though man it's hard out here for a drummer.




The thing is, this was written by Albini, I believe, back in the 90s. Back then, at least some people were making money from record sales. This is no longer the case due to the internet. If you want to make money as a musician you either need to play high paying gigs, or sell your music to commercial/movie soundtracks. Unfortunately to achieve either, you need to go through the people who control those avenues. That means booking agents, managers, publishers, PR people and synch specialists.

Its a hell of a business. Don't quit your day job. But hey if you love it you'll do it regardless, right?





I'm sorry but I can't agree with anything you just said. There are plenty of ways to make money as a musician. People just need to get the idea of being some rockstar who goes around playing gigs to hundreds of  thousands and having their cd's heard by everyone out of their head. It's unrealistic.

Just a few probably lesser-considered ways of making a decent-living off being a musician.

- Regular gigs (yes they don't need to be high paying gigs as long as you gig regularly). I'd also like to add that doing gigs is for the most part something on the side for a musician. More something they enjoy, but with the bonus of some tax free money in the pocket.

- Teaching. Yeah, it's not for everyone, but it pays damn good. This requires a lot of musical ability and knowledge but private instrumental lessons are pretty stress-free and very high paying. Why not do them out of your own house even? Also consider teaching at a high school :thumbdown: , or music college :thumbup:

- Session playing. For those of who who don't know what being a session musician involves, you basically prostitute your musical services to those who need you. Let's say you play some crazy good funk bass. Some funk band/performer is recording an album and they need some crazy good funk bassist to play on a few of their songs. Well the recording studio will contact you and hook you up with a good deal. (You can make SERIOUSLY good money being a session musician, although you also need to be seriously good in the first place).

I'm taking too long so I'll just skip through a few more...

- Live mixing
- Sound engineering
- Music therapy  :peace:
- Composing (for more than commercials. There are some seriously talented people out there who compose music for various things (movies, games, videos, documentaries, etc.))




Apologies I took it for granted that the whole slant of this thread/my reply/Steve Albini's article was oriented around the aspiration to "make it" as a recording artist.

Yes of course you can teach or be an engineer or various other things, but that's not really the same as being a professional performer, is it?


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Offlinesaucerfulofsecrets
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Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 140
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: gluke bastid]
    #14915028 - 08/13/11 10:21 AM (11 years, 1 day ago)

I'm gonna have to agree with bridland. Musicians have plenty of ways to make money, out of live performances or just selling albums. I mean, every great musician did, or does these things birdland just mentioned. For instance, Joe Satrianni was guitar professor. Not that i like him, or think he's great though. And just like him, there's plenty of more examples.

But i think there's some trouble in these shroomers minds when it comes to music. I will have to agree with the article when it says that artist become sort of empty when they sign with major record labels, that much is true. But we can't just judge a thing just because it turned mainstream or whatsoever. I mean, The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Rolling Stones, The Doors, they were all pretty mainstream in the 60's. That doesnt mean they were bad. Nirvana was mainstream as fuck too. was it bad? No.

I'd like to express my disappointment to all of you guys here, for not having mentioned Radiohead, which is a perfect example of a great band, which is also mainstream, dont kid yourselves, and has an Indie label.

I think you guys need to start listening to other stuff. From what ive seen most part of people here is just a bunch of Tool and APClovers. Don't get me wrong, but those guys are just as sell outs as any other shit you see on MTV. Aenima for soundtrack of that worthless piece of shit called Captain America proves it.


Since you guys enjoy the magic of psychedelia, why not try the indie, psychedelic rock bands that are starting now? they're all pretty cool in my perspective. Or try the old stuff.

I spent this whole last year listening to some cool psychedelic stuff.

Tame Impala
Pink Floyd- Piper at the gates of dawn/ Saucerful of secrets
Caribou
Animal Collective
Boards of Canada
Pond
Dungen - theyre swedish, but really cool.
The radio dpt.
The Beatles - they got plenty of awesome stuff.

i listen to some rock, stoner or desert rock, blues..but ive sorta lost the feeling to it.
I still listen to QOTSA, some Kyuss of course, Asteroid, Fu manchu..well you just gotta look for the obvious. BBking heheh.

thanks, and i hope ive been useful


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OfflineImmortal Corrupter
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Male


Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 424
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: saucerfulofsecrets]
    #14917616 - 08/13/11 10:35 PM (11 years, 1 day ago)

Don't forget all the random merch you can whore your logo on :laugh:


--------------------
where's my lap dance?
.:nonono:
/OO\
/ (y) \
  //\

(\\__/)
( O.o )
( > < )
What poor gods we do make


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OfflineSlaithenn
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Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 122
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: Immortal Corrupter]
    #14918243 - 08/14/11 01:03 AM (11 years, 1 day ago)

Nice informative post,
i mean i already knew this
but i didn't "know"


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: gluke bastid] * 1
    #14918470 - 08/14/11 02:07 AM (11 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Apologies I took it for granted that the whole slant of this thread/my reply/Steve Albini's article was oriented around the aspiration to "make it" as a recording artist.

Yes of course you can teach or be an engineer or various other things, but that's not really the same as being a professional performer, is it?





I was only referring to "don't quit your day job" and other not so well-thought out comments.

And I'm going to assume when you say "that's not really the same as being a professional performer" you mean that literally, and you're not putting performer's on some sort of higher order than all other musicians... Coz that would be pretty stupid of you. Not to mention recording artists aren't necessarily performer's themselves. Look at The Beatles later career.


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: Immortal Corrupter]
    #14918477 - 08/14/11 02:08 AM (11 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Immortal Corrupter said:
Don't forget all the random merch you can whore your logo on :laugh:




There's quite a lot of things I didn't mention, I was just trying to make a point :thumbup:


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OfflineNlightNme
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Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 630
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: birdland]
    #14920934 - 08/14/11 03:38 PM (11 years, 13 hours ago)

"You tell me the music industry is dead, I tell you that music never should have been industrialized in the first place" - me


That's going in da sig.


--------------------
Tenet Nosce


You tell me the music industry is dead. I tell you that music never should have been industrialized in the first place.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Registered: 12/21/00
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Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: birdland]
    #14921841 - 08/14/11 07:21 PM (11 years, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

birdland said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Apologies I took it for granted that the whole slant of this thread/my reply/Steve Albini's article was oriented around the aspiration to "make it" as a recording artist.

Yes of course you can teach or be an engineer or various other things, but that's not really the same as being a professional performer, is it?





I was only referring to "don't quit your day job" and other not so well-thought out comments.




hm. They were perfectly well thought out. Are yours? I wonder where your defensive stance is coming from.

Quote:

And I'm going to assume when you say "that's not really the same as being a professional performer" you mean that literally, and you're not putting performer's on some sort of higher order than all other musicians... Coz that would be pretty stupid of you.




I did mean that literally. Its a completely different job. My mother was a professional music teacher and I'm a professional touring. Our jobs couldn't be more different. I would never say I'm "better" than my mother because she teaches and I don't. But its ridiculous to think they are the same job requiring the same skill set. Its also really difficult to do both at the same time. Young dudes out there rarely realize this.

Quote:

Not to mention recording artists aren't necessarily performer's themselves. Look at The Beatles later career.




*sigh* I'm just curious how many times I'm going to have to make the same point before you acknowledge it either by agreeing or disagreeing.

In the 60s through the early 2000's the money that made the bulk of the music industry was music sales. Now music sales make up a shred of what they used to. Recording artists aren't making money. That era is esentially over. Today's commercial equivalent to the Beatles (unfortunately the likes of the Jonas brothers or Miley Cyrus) make money off of concerts, merchandise, and television. NOT album sales.

Pointing out that the Beatles made $ off of recording without touring is not relevant. The industry is different.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Offlinesaucerfulofsecrets
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Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 140
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Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: gluke bastid]
    #14924484 - 08/15/11 07:52 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

In the 60s through the early 2000's the money that made the bulk of the music industry was music sales. Now music sales make up a shred of what they used to. Recording artists aren't making money. That era is esentially over. Today's commercial equivalent to the Beatles (unfortunately the likes of the Jonas brothers or Miley Cyrus) make money off of concerts, merchandise, and television. NOT album sales.

Pointing out that the Beatles made $ off of recording without touring is not relevant. The industry is different.





Not really sure what should i think about all this. Pointing out that the music industries is different, that is what is irrelevant in my point of view. Yes, several decades have been since the sixties, of course its different. I will have to agree that artist these days won't get their cash from album sales - unless they are big bands. And i prolly won't be speaking just for myself when i say i buy the albums of the bands that deserve to be on my shelf.

You say you're a professional touring. that is very vague. i mean, are you really apart of the band, whenever they compose? what type of band are they?

I'd be stupid if i say that everyones got the potencial to live their lives with just music income. Let's be reasonable here. A good band will always be picked by someone, with the right promotion and a few shows here and there. If you suck, well..then i guess not. Music itself is already an industry, like everything else. Its made FOR people. Ultimately, its gonna be the People who decide if you are or not worth listening to. I think this shouldnt be a problem to understand.

I read questions in this thread like: So how is it possible to live form music? Well, I'd say that Music has been limited to a certain range of people - the good ones. there's no space for mediocrity anymore. Of course I am not speaking about the jonas brothers or Hannah Montana. Im talking about the decent side of Music making. If you want to live from music, just fuckin' do it. Try to be the best, or innovative at least. Don't go blaming the music industry for the lack of success, or money, coz everyones got plenty of choices out of that devil's factory. If there are bands that choose to make contracts with this music companies, and for some reason they disappoint you with their limited sounds and perspectives, move on, that just shows they're no good.

I'll present you the example of Radiohead once more. They had a great album called In rainbows - recent one - and they chose to put it to download for whatever price people thought it was worth. they haven't started touring up until now.

If you're good, you're good. People will know it. And people will want to have you.

END OF FUCKIN STORY


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: gluke bastid]
    #14925299 - 08/15/11 12:48 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
*sigh* I'm just curious how many times I'm going to have to make the same point before you acknowledge it either by agreeing or disagreeing.

In the 60s through the early 2000's the money that made the bulk of the music industry was music sales. Now music sales make up a shred of what they used to. Recording artists aren't making money. That era is esentially over. Today's commercial equivalent to the Beatles (unfortunately the likes of the Jonas brothers or Miley Cyrus) make money off of concerts, merchandise, and television. NOT album sales.

Pointing out that the Beatles made $ off of recording without touring is not relevant. The industry is different.




Ok I'll acknowledge it right here - yes the music industry is a lot different now than it was 40-50 years ago. I'm simply making the points I am, as irrelevant as you may think they are, because I'm not one to agree with the whole "the music industry is fucked" hype which is pretty much where this thread is coming from.

The music industry doesn't only consist of touring/gigging. That's a big point I'm trying to make which YOU aren't acknowledging, as you think it's somehow irrelevant. Now, I apologise for being optimistic as you seen quite taken aback. That said I'm going to make a pretty big call here, disagree if you want, I don't care. I know what I'm talking about pretty well when it comes to music so I don't need your approval.

The music industry is better now than ever.

Why? Big artists are making less money. Obscure, less mainstream artists are far more easily heard, their music far more easily obtained.


If you think this is a bad thing... Well I feel sorry for you :frown:


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: birdland]
    #14926520 - 08/15/11 04:57 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Basically, I've simply been trying to bring a lot of attention to how the music industry has changed and how a lot of the founding myths of how you can have your dreams come true (practice, get good, get noticed, get signed, become paid and famous, etc.) are not exactly the way it works any more in the music biz. This is based on personal experience, networking with lots of musicians some of whom have "succeeded" and some of whom have "failed," and writing such as this Albini article and a great book called The trouble with music by Matt Callahan.

I'm trying to point out to people the reality of this business. I understand money and fame may not be the motivation, but I've also been around and I know for a lot of musicians that dream is in the back of their head, which is fine.

It seems like a couple of y'all are getting upset because you think I'm saying "Your dreams are stupid, the music industry sucks now because there's not enough money, and being a teacher is lame." I'm not. I think its rad that the industry is changing, I think its rad that its easier to get your music out there, I think its rad that the scene isn't just ruled by super famous people. I just think that if you are counting on that huge signing bonus with a massive advance I'm just trying to tell you that's not really how they do it any more. There may be a few exceptions, but there aren't many.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: gluke bastid]
    #14930766 - 08/16/11 11:34 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
I'm trying to point out to people the reality of this business. I understand money and fame may not be the motivation, but I've also been around and I know for a lot of musicians that dream is in the back of their head, which is fine.



I just think that if you are counting on that huge signing bonus with a massive advance I'm just trying to tell you that's not really how they do it any more. There may be a few exceptions, but there aren't many.




Well I agree with you on this. :smile:

Luckily it seems to me that for the large majority of dedicated musicians money isn't a motivator. :thumbup:


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OfflineJordainio
Jazz Drummer
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Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Pennsylvania
Last seen: 11 months, 11 days
Re: Words Of Warning to the Music Industry Hopefull: [Re: birdland]
    #14947741 - 08/19/11 04:08 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Dudes, or dudettes....
Everyone should read
Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner.
I mean, if anyone sees this and is remotely into jazz, classical, or just esoteric, spiritual ways of being in the music. They should read it. It's really great and I'm trying to talk to people about it, and I've only read up to the sixth chapter. Talks about why people play, why they fear continuing playing, how to separate how you feel about yourself from how you feel about your playing or technique and just...letting the music flow.
Good discussion here though just adding my next 2ยข.


--------------------
Also, if anyone is selling cymbals or drum equipment, email me right now!
<span class="spoiler" onmouseover="this.className='nospoiler'" onmouseout="this.className='spoiler'">Distant and unimagined realms lie hidden all around us. Not only do we deny things that we CAN see, but many many more that we do not. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively

hahahaha, P4N3D!!!!!1!


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