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Offlinebeatlebangboy
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Real, Not Electric, Music.....
    #2096686 - 11/12/03 12:25 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

First thing, I'm 46 years old. I think that is important to know.
I write "real" music, you know, the kind that you gotta play an instrument to make. I have NOTHING against electronic music except that all you really need is a Korg Electribe ES1, and you have all the electronic music you need. I write lyrics and choruses and melodies.
Now, I figure that most people on this site that are into the writing aspect of music, should have a "NON MAINSTREAM" view of music and I wanna hook up with them via the internet and maybe sorta' collaborate.
I have been using Sonar (cakewalk) since version 6.0 and I know it really well. I have everything from Waves Platinum to Lexicon's MPX550 and a whole lot more but it will take too much time to list them.
If anybody is interested, let me know and I'll let you know where to hear my tunes.
Thanks
bbb


--------------------
Check out my tunes. You will be better off for it.
www.myspace.com/beatlebangboy


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: beatlebangboy]
    #2096717 - 11/12/03 12:37 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I have NOTHING against electronic music except that all you really need is a Korg Electribe ES1, and you have all the electronic music you need.




I wouldn't make a baseless insult like that in the same paragraph I was asking the people I insulted for help.

I make techno music. I also *gasp* play several instruments. I dont play them veryu much anymore (except for keyboard) because my computer does it for me. I compose origional tunes and then program them into my equipment. Producing techno takes the influence off performance and puts it onto composition and arrangement. But the same amount of effort is required.

I know there is a lot of shitty techno out there that doesn't show a lot of effort, but I could say the same thing about rock. If you have such a low opinion of electronic music, I would say you havent heard enough of the right stuff. The stuff they play in clubs and on the radio is not top notch. How would you like it if I judged the entire genre of rock music by what they play on the radio? There is a lot of techno out there that anyone who knows anything about production can tell someone put a lot of effort into.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinebeatlebangboy
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2096741 - 11/12/03 12:43 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Sorry.
I wasn't insulting you what so ever!!
There is a real lot of GREAT Electronic mucis out there (Aphex Twin, Squarepusher etc...)
But you know as well as me, that alot of kids out there are just twisting filter knobs and haven't the foggiest notion about music.
Please accept my most sincere appologies. I just wanna meet people who go beyond knob twisting (like you, for sure).
BTW, what kind of music do you write? Can I hear it on the internet?
If you accept my appology, I'll let you know where my music is posted.
bbb


--------------------
Check out my tunes. You will be better off for it.
www.myspace.com/beatlebangboy


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: beatlebangboy]
    #2097275 - 11/12/03 03:05 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

beatle,
I see your point of view, and understand it quite well.  But I also think that calling Electronic music something apart from "real" music is a poor use of words. 

You're right, there are a lot of kids out there just twisting filter knobs, just as there are a lot of kids out there just making noise with six strings and 2 sticks.  The fact that music is produced electronically and not played physically by an instrument does not make it any less real.

I'm sure this wasn't the point that you were making, because I see you have respectable taste in electronic music as well.  I'm just clarifying why some people on this board who create electronic music (which is many, myself included) might take offense.

That said, I think a musical collaboration would be really cool.
what kind of music do you intend to make?

Here's my electronic music:  www.zebox.com/stereopattern

If you're intending to write music more based on lyrics, played instruments, etc. i'm sure there's others on this board who'd be excited to collab :smile: 


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: beatlebangboy]
    #2097324 - 11/12/03 03:15 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

thas cool, dude. :cool:

I share your frustrations with the "knob turners" and also the DJs who never create any music but get loads of cash and recognition for just playing records made by some obscure genious recluse. 

As for me, I don't have any time for writing music at the moment, but when I do I like breaks, jungle, DnB, and Psytrance.  Right now I'm saving up for turntables and a record collection so I can be a DJ and mix my own tracks in with the classics, which seems to me to be the only way to get paid in this biz.  When I get my tables I will be a lot more motivated to write tracks- as of right now its too much time and effort for too little reward. 

I do have a bunch of unfinished tracks, failed experiments, and one or two completed works, also a couple remixes.  But they are not online :frown:  Besides, I've learned a lot since I did those projects (I havent really worked on anything in a good year or so) and I am sure that once I get a little free time from school/work obligations and proper motivation, I could come up with much better!  A lot of DJs around here are practically begging me and a few of my friends to come up with new tracks, so I'm sure I will get around to writing some soon.  I have a shitload of built up ideas- probably 2 or 3 74 minute CDs worth.  When I get around to doing all the work involved in making those ideas real, the shroomery members will be among the first to know!


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2097416 - 11/12/03 03:32 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Hehe, I might be interested. I currently have my first fretless bass guitar in my lap, trying to get the fucking action set on it right (its been a few hours now since I first took it out of the shipping box and screwed on the neck).

Anyways, I am probably interested in helping out. It just depends on what is going on and all of that.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinecaolite
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2097708 - 11/12/03 04:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Hah, wow I didn't think I would stumble upon one of my biggest pet peeves of all time, when someone calls electronic music not real, and stands on their soap box about how strumming a guitar is different than playing a keyboard, ect, in the fact that it is somehow more legitimate. I am sorry to be blunt here, but that is total bullshit, plan and simple.

Second of all, I really hate it when musicians get all high and mighty, "I know scales, chords with every fret or key as the root, and I can even play them." Big fucking whoop. Man, have you ever thought for one moment music should be one of the easiest most accesible things for ANY person to use and create and express oneself with?

Who cares if someone has little grasp on the technical aspects of music, it doesn't mean one thing, not one thing at all. I dunno about you, but I love living in a world were someone can walk in not knowing much or anything and still pump put an interesting track.

It always reminds me of the Pink Floyd Video Live At Pompei, one of them is sitting at some chair or table or something and I think they were messing around with a synth part, and one of them was talking about how interesting it would be to see what some random joe off the street would do with synths (maybe due to the fact that at the time, random people probably didn't really have many synths to fiddle with so to speak.

I agree with ever fiber of my being. You might feel that it cheapens music because some kid doesn't have to devote endless hours to practicing just even in an attempt to start and grasp even the most basic parts of music, arrangement, and composition. It is through these untrained people without an expectation of how things should sound or be done that new great music will emerge. You mention APhex Twin as beign good, but how do you feel when you learn that he feels like he should just go to gigs with his laptop only, instead of a bunch of other stuff he feels he no longer needs.

Why should you or would you want deny joe average the chance to explore music by saying his lack of knowledge and experience makes all that he creates fake or illegitimate? I mean, hell, if someone wants to learn piano and/or guitar sure they can practice their asses off and then after maybe a few years, if they don't get frustrated with how difficult it can be (for learning how to play can be really hard for some people especially), they could reach a level some might consider good.

What also really bugs me is that usually the same people who denounce these other people, and never really willing to sit down and take time out of their own learning, and even have the patience to maybe teach someone, like ancient greece philosopher style. Then those people who might want to learn, not only have to put in massive amounts of time to keep their skilsl sharp, but they also have to put in loads of money for lessons and such.

I don't mean to come off as harsh here, but I just get really realyl pissed off when I hear peopel call electronic music fake...

What would you consider real and fake then, is the keyboard physically there? does it do things to produce sound waves in certain patterns and such in hopes that it comes out sounding pleasing to the air? Or are the soundwaves a keyboard makes non-existent.

Anyways, and I agree that electronic music takes a large focus off of the crap and troubles behind slaving away to learn an instrument and allows people to work and focus on production instead, I mean proof of that is how many electronic tracks there are out in the world that have all been produced with high quality right off of some 18 year olds computer when he is sitting at home on a weekend in his pajamas after getting off work at his minimum wage job that makes him work 40 hours a week or more to keep his head finaicially above water, just so he can find some peace or expression in a way he might normally not, knob twiddlers or no....

Good day sir.


Also, I do understand the frustration one could feel if they spent years learning a guitar and someone sits down and in a week they have what sounds to be a rather decent track of something. But that should not be a reason to spite electronic music.

Also, I tend to look at modern electonic music makers as a rennesiance of the compser. Like think back in the day, Betoven and Mozart and such, they made musical arrangements and composition, they had other people play the insruments for them though. That is just how sequencing and such is, only instead of having to pay an assload of people, you buy a little metal box ;D


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: caolite]
    #2098651 - 11/12/03 09:16 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

caolite:

Okay, hold on a minute, relax. I'm hoping you read this whole thread before writing all of that, and if you did you would notice beatle's apology and saying that that's not what he meant. It was just a poor choice of words.
I share with you that pet peeve, as I am a huge fan and composer of electronic music, so I know where you're coming from. Read my previous post to see my point of view.

BUT, as a music student and a musician since I was 5, this statement:
Quote:

Who cares if someone has little grasp on the technical aspects of music, it doesn't mean one thing, not one thing at all.



is flat out wrong.

I see it as this. The best a musician can be is one who translates ideas and what he hears in his head into a composition, do you agree? So further knowledge of music theory, acoustics, sound engineering, proficiency in an instrument, will not only increase the clarity of the translation from music in the mind to on paper, on cd, performed live, etc., but will also increase the capacity for what you hear in your head.

You, caolite, have knowledge of a certain instrument, and knowledge of soundwaves and production through certain methods of filters, synths, etc. That is comparable to music theory and other technical aspects.

To say that knowledge of music theory or technical aspects of music means nothing is just wrong. Knowledge in any medium leads to proficiency in most accurately performing your vision, or the music in your head.

Yes, music composition software is making it easier for [people with little musical knowledge to create something, and that is great, because it gets people to learn more about what they're creating. But it will only get better thru knowledge in the medium. I'm sure your first composition, and Most Definitely mine, wasn't very good. But the fact that I could create something with dozens of sounds at once opened up a whole new world, and made me learn more about it. And it was damn fun.

And also, Beethoven and Mozart didn't play their music because they had to conduct it. I see your comparison, but it still is very close to impossible to compare anything to the Greatness of the classical composers. Yes, they both(classical composers and electronic producers) deal with pure sound, and the spectrum is exponentially increased with electronic music, but they are Gods among men. We will only realize who is a modern God if in 300-400 years their music still withstands its wonder.


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: Blastrid]
    #2098742 - 11/12/03 09:39 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

this whole debate reminds me of the fights I used to get in with my computer science teacher. He would always accuse me of "hacking" because i never went into writing a program with a plan in mind, I would just try diffferent stuff until something worked.

Thats how I write music, too. I have never outright studied musical theory, but I have picked up a lot through experimentation. Now, i have a rasp of music theory AND a style. Sometimes, studying music theory can leave one without style, just as studying pre-written code can leave someone without programming problem solving skillz. Non-Linear Entropic Reduction Mapping, biotch!


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinebeatlebangboy
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2099626 - 11/13/03 01:36 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Wooooooooo!!!!!!
I really didn't mean to open a can of worms here. I am EXTREMELY SORRY to have offended some people, especially "caolite". Please try to understand that I am new around here and I'm trying to get familiar with the community.
Here's what I meant:
Let's say you encountered a chinese speaking person and you needed to ask that person a very important question and you cannot speak chinese. What do you do to get a point across to that person? Really not much other than sign language. If, on the other hand, you knew how to speak chinese it would be very easy. Music is basically a "language" where other musicians can "talk" to each other. If you don't know the language of music, it would be very hard to communicate an idea to another musician. Sorta' like the chinese guy I just mentioned.
Yeah, I know it's alot of fun making cool sounds on a computer (or whatever) but when you want to get other people involved in having fun with you, they cannot play along with you cause you are not speaking a "language" they understand. So as musicians, we committed ourselves to learning a universal language so we can all speak to each other and share the fun. If I wanna get a point across to another musician about what changes are going to take place in the song I let them know through the language of music. It makes it much easier.
I've met people who under the influence, played alot of cool stuff but they could'nt relate it to me in terms that I could understand. So it was just a one sided "jam". I'm trying to avoid that situation. I am sure that all of you musicians out there are doing great stuff. I just want to collaborate with people that if I say "this song is in the key of E, will automatically know that the 4th is an A (simple example). I am not a trouble maker who wants to fight anybody and I will choose my words more clearly next time.
So with that having been said, anybody wanna collaborate?
AND ONCE AGAIN, EVERYBODY THAT I OFFENDED, I AM TRUELY SORRY.
bbb


--------------------
Check out my tunes. You will be better off for it.
www.myspace.com/beatlebangboy


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Offlinecaolite
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: beatlebangboy]
    #2099899 - 11/13/03 03:10 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Oh dude, I am the only who should apologize. Appy polly loggies ;D. My words came out harsh and blunt, I do fuly admit I could have said everything I did in a much more pleasant way, and I am sorry.

I did see you apologizd, and I didn't mean to really direct that post at you, just in general. I gave you a 5 rating after I made the post, if you wanted to check it out from your home section, which sums up my feelings more.

I was hoping you would of seen that before reading my post. :tongue:

Anyways, I also am a victim of using the wrong words, heh, because really when I meant knowledge of musical composition means nothing, I didn't mean to be so extreme, but in a way I must admit I still do think that it has very little importance, for the very reason stated above. When people go into making stuff, at first they won't be too great, but they will eventually learn from trial and error and even stumble upon stuff. And as a result they may very well find what works best for them rather than attempt to use a standard "from the book" method, and this can fuel great leaps and bounds in the music world. I mean think about how IDM could easily have been considered random noise by people even 10 or 15 years ago. Even today I guess even too, but yea, my point was kind of in sync with the others.

I do gget what you mean about communication though, I had not thought about that specifically because when arrangeing a track, people can kind of tell you what they lik and don't like about it when they listen anyways, and a lot of the time people can look at what measure or whatever it is in their programs if they don't know offhand. I myself don't really know scales or keys persay, I mean I might, but I probably don't know it if I do anyways, which can indeed hinder my communication. But I am learning, with synths there is so much to deal with, like knowing technical terms for programming patches and flters, and then learning also "how to play the piano". I admit I have had my synth for quite a while and my lack of piano playing ability might be kind of embaressing, but I jugle so many things as a Gemini it is hard to focus on any one thing.

Anyways, I am totally sorry it came out sounding like an ass, it seemed earlier today I made a bunch of posts with this aura of being kind of crass, I don't know why the hell I posted like that LOL, but I blame me and my ole mental/personality disorders hehe.


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: beatlebangboy]
    #2099918 - 11/13/03 03:18 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Hey I really think we could take this as far as the Photoshop collaborations on this board. That is, if those involved want to. It might be cool to see everyone's aural interpretation of something, but then again there's something to be said about working with a select person(s).

beatle, what kind of music are you interested in creating? what sort of inspiratations do you have/what music do you like?


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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Offlinebeatlebangboy
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: Blastrid]
    #2100971 - 11/13/03 11:20 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Well, to start off with, I don't write electronic music. The only reason for that is that I personally like to "sing along" to a song. I like to use lyrics as road maps to where the song is. Now I do have one instrumental, but that has a guitar solo through it. I am into LYRICS!!!! I write em' I love em' I write dark, dark lyrics. People want to know if i'm depressed or what. I'm not, I just write dark lyrics. Here is an example:
"I live in a city that kills it's prophits
And leaves filth in it's wake
Nobody here has an ounce of pride
And everyone's on the take

The streets are cold and lifeless
Am I the only one left with compassion?
Now that's a funny thought
That emotion is no longer in fashion

chorus
The world is spira;ing out of control
Sinking deeper and deeper into hates black hole

This whole town just dosn't give a shit
And niggers come in all different colors
A person's word is completely worthless
And you turn your back on your brothers

I'm not cynical, believe me
But I'm not an optimistic fool
I don't wear rose tinted glasses
In my politically corrected view

It's not a passion, if you're not passionate (keep repeating)"
c.2002 beatlebangboy music
Squeeky Cheeks Studio

Now those are the kind of lyrics I write. That song in particuliar has "Goth Rap" music written for it and it always is a TOP 10 song on Broadjam. www.broadjam.com is a cool place for musicians to post songs for free (well only 3 for free) and get reviews from other musicians. I have or should I say had at least 5 TOP 10 songs there.

bbb


--------------------
Check out my tunes. You will be better off for it.
www.myspace.com/beatlebangboy


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: beatlebangboy]
    #2107752 - 11/14/03 11:11 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I HAVE DONE BOTH!!!!!!

electronic music is EASIER by a long shot!!!!!!!!!!!

Its funny you guys would even debate the idea, sheesh, I like some elctronic music but its easy to make, why pretend its not????

Guitar is WAY harder, speaking of which my fingers hurt :smile:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2107830 - 11/14/03 11:41 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Electronic music is easy to make in that you don't really have to master an instrument to make good music. However, if you're any good at it, you have to be creative. I play both kinds of music too, some of my electronic creations have been more original and creative than my guitar compositions.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinebeatlebangboy
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2107846 - 11/14/03 11:47 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I do have to admit, sometimes I get stoned and put on the headphones and fuck around with an Electribe ES1 and it is the shit. My only problem is that I can't repeat what I've done at a later time and sometimes when I'm straight I don't even want to. I guess that's why it's better to do both, when one gets boring you can go to the other.


--------------------
Check out my tunes. You will be better off for it.
www.myspace.com/beatlebangboy


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Offlinecaolite
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2111958 - 11/16/03 05:31 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psilocybeingzz said:
I HAVE DONE BOTH!!!!!!

electronic music is EASIER by a long shot!!!!!!!!!!!

Its funny you guys would even debate the idea, sheesh, I like some elctronic music but its easy to make, why pretend its not????

Guitar is WAY harder, speaking of which my fingers hurt :smile: 





^^^ This is the exact kind of thing I am talking about, who gives a shit is a guitar is harder to play... why is it that you feel that because an instrument is harder to learn or play (not that I feel it is) that the music is somehow more superior...

The focus of electronic music is in an entirely different direction...

it is like compairing apples and oranges... chances are that if someone sits down for 5 minutes and is able to put an electronic song together, that song won't be very good. Just like if someone is shown powerchords on a guitar and throws a few together.

You can't look at one aspect of how a kind of music is made to determine anything about it worth arguing over, its the whole picture mang!!  :grin:


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2115568 - 11/17/03 10:26 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

right on doctor. I sweaqr mixing is hella hard to do CORRECTLY! to make t=it like one continuous song almost, or at least those cd's where you don't know the name of the song, but know what it when you hear it. all good albums in all genres are this way.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlinebeatlebangboy
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: kaiowas]
    #2115663 - 11/17/03 11:20 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Once again I think you guys are misunderstanding me. My point from the very begining is this, I want to find some people who want to collaborate (compose) music with me. If you cannot understand the "language" of music, How can I tell you that this song is in 7/8 and use the pentatonic scale except for the chorus which is in E flat major. Even if 2 or 3 or more electronic musicians got together, how can they all play the same tune if they don't know the basic language of music.
I LOVE to fool around with weird fun stuff too, however, the TRICK, if you want to collaborate (once again, to collaborate is to compose with other people) everybody needs to be on the same page so to speak. As a "SOLOIST" that is irrelevent. But if you ever play live, your fans are gonna want to hear all their favorite tunes from your CD, and you had better know how to reproduce them the same way as you played them on your CD, or they will be disappointed. Maybe even start a riot. I don't see the reason for people arguing this point. I ABSOLUTELY know where you are coming from. I didn't start this post to fight anyone, really. I chose the wrong words in the title for sure. Once again, my original point is that I want to find people to collaborate with. Please don't be angry or take this the wrong way.

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"Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, cause you're gonna meet the same people on the way down.........It happens to me every day in the sewer.
Ed Norton


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Check out my tunes. You will be better off for it.
www.myspace.com/beatlebangboy


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Registered: 11/05/03
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Re: Real, Not Electric, Music..... [Re: beatlebangboy]
    #2121186 - 11/18/03 11:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm 37. I play guitar, bass, keyboards, ... and compose and record my own original tunes all on my PC, just for fun. The music is the bottom line. As long as the music inspires or pleases you, it doesn't matter how it got made.

Even if you go all acoustic in your performance ... if you want to record the music, you'll be turning knobs and tweeking machines and gadgets anyways ... its part of the creative process. Use any and all the tools you want to get the sounds you want ... why not?




Anyways ... Im game for internet collaborations, I've done several over the last few years ... fun stuff.


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