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A problem i have always had with the resurrection
    #6166220 -

Ok, so as the story goes, jesus was killed to forgive man of sin, but then he was resurrected.
By the same "magic" or force that was created when jesus died to forgive man of his sins, then why wouldn't that same "magic"/force act as a reversal to this forgiveness?

i was thinking about forgiveness the other day, and I was doubtful about true forgiveness, not just masked forgiveness, like that of a wife whose husband cheated on them....
but then I thought about how forgiveness isn't just dependant on one person, but two or more people.
For example, if someone is on their death bed, and you forgive them, and then they die, even if you didn't truly forgive them, and were merely appeasing them so they can die happy... you did forgive them, because they died knowing you forgave them, and now that they are no longer in this world, there is no taking that back.... unless... they were resurrected......

editted for clarity

Edited by psilocyberin (10/13/06 05:18 PM)

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6166284 -

There is no reason to ever forgive any of what you have done.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: Droz]
    #6166325 -

I agree... this is merely mental masturbation.

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6166510 -

I perfer the Hobbit and Trilogy myself. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: Icelander]
    #6166544 -

i do hope someone seriously responds to this thread.....lol.

It is something that no theologist has ever been able to fully explain.

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6166616 -

It is something that no theologist has ever been able to fully explain.

:shocked: How can this be? Without knowing this you cannot make it into the heavenly gates. :frown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: Icelander]
    #6166679 -

I remember once someone mumbled something about the trinity in regards to this question... but I find that the absurdity of the trinity is in some way an explanation for everything else absurd.

why the platypus?
because of the trinity.

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6166701 -

You must watch Eddie Izzard. :wink:

Really though, You are intelligent IMO. Why do you care about a book and religion that you don't believe in? Are you trolling. :shocked: I must admit that there seems to be a preoccupation with the Christian Religion in this forum.  :frown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: Icelander]
    #6166740 -

I wanted to counter balance. i wanted some mental masturbation on this subject... and some part of it is due to me wanting to hear a "logical" explanation for this.

Maybe I over stated it in the title.... it doesn't really bother me. It is usually a question that I bring up in christian conversations... and it is usually dismissed with a laugh of absurdity... like "that makes no sense!".

They are asking me to believe that some force of forgiveness was born from the slaying of one man, while they find it absurd that I am asking them to believe the same thing... and it is even by their own rules of the magic of God.

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6166778 -

psilocyberin said:
I wanted to counter balance. i wanted some mental masturbation on this subject... and some part of it is due to me wanting to hear a "logical" explanation for this.

Maybe I over stated it in the title.... it doesn't really bother me. It is usually a question that I bring up in christian conversations... and it is usually dismissed with a laugh of absurdity... like "that makes no sense!".

They are asking me to believe that some force of forgiveness was born from the slaying of one man, while they find it absurd that I am asking them to believe the same thing... and it is even by their own rules of the magic of God.


You were expecting something else? :wink:

You need to hang around with a different crowd. I hardly ever run into a Christian (except here). They hardly exist anymore. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6166840 -

psilocyberin said:
Ok, so as the story goes, jesus was killed to forgive man of sin, but then he was resurrected.
By the same "magic" or force that was created when jesus died to forgive man of his sins, then why wouldn't that same "magic"/force act as a reversal to this forgiveness?


huh? its really hard to follow your post but as someone said above, assuming the law of karma, the karma you take on while in your physical body doesn't get "reversed" when you ascend. i meanm, why would it? that's like asking if you go to work for a week and then get your paycheck, why doesn't the work you did get "undone" when you cash the check?

Quote:
i was thinking about forgiveness the other day, and I was doubtful about true forgiveness, not just masked forgiveness, like that of a wife whose husband cheated on them....
but then I thought about how forgiveness isn't just dependant on one person, but two or more people.
For example, if someone is on their death bed, and you forgive them, and then they die, even if you didn't truly forgive them, and were merely appeasing them so they can die happy... you did forgive them, because they died knowing you forgave them, and now that they are no longer in this world, there is no taking that back.... unless... they were resurrected......

editted for clarity


once again, you don't make much sense. i mean what is exactly are you trying to say here?

Edited by porcupine (10/13/06 06:37 PM)

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: porcupine]
    #6166988 -

well... it is a 2 part discussion.

The first would be theorizing about the isolation of that "power" or affect that was born through jesus dying. By that same logic, there would have to be some power or effect that would be born.... and since the two actions were inverse of each other, sit would make sense (i guess) that the effects would be inverse as well.

The secnd part is about forgiveness. i was talking about how the act is not exactly dependant upon the forgiver, and moreso on the forgivee... and how, if that forgivee died minutes after the forgiver forgave them, even if it was a false forgiveness (in the forgiver's mind), it was real (in the forgivee's mind) and therefor would "stick".... unless that was resurrected, then it would be possible to take that forgiveness back.....

Mostly it is just silly notions, but I am in some way serious about the first part...

also, I wasn't aware of the laws of Karma. Please enlighten me about these laws.
Also, where does Karma tie in with christianity?
I was hoping for a christian response, but I guess any explanation of this would be appreciated.

I dont really agree with the concept of karma, so, maybe i am not as hip to as why karma has anything to do with man being forgiven of his sins.

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6166998 -

psilocyberin said:
Ok, so as the story goes, jesus was killed to forgive man of sin, but then he was resurrected.
By the same "magic" or force that was created when jesus died to forgive man of his sins, then why wouldn't that same "magic"/force act as a reversal to this forgiveness?

i was thinking about forgiveness the other day, and I was doubtful about true forgiveness, not just masked forgiveness, like that of a wife whose husband cheated on them....
but then I thought about how forgiveness isn't just dependant on one person, but two or more people.
For example, if someone is on their death bed, and you forgive them, and then they die, even if you didn't truly forgive them, and were merely appeasing them so they can die happy... you did forgive them, because they died knowing you forgave them, and now that they are no longer in this world, there is no taking that back.... unless... they were resurrected......



i'll be thrilled to discuss this with you.
i'd like it if you could rephrase the question, or ask questions one at a time.

the reason why forgiveness is important is because holding grudges and being angry, or feeling like you're a victim, those are lies usually connected to the ego-mind.

for example, a very common example, a person who was victimized as a child by their parents or stranger. They live with great animosity and turmoil inside them, they feel they've had their whole lives destroyed.
yet, they'll always notice there are times of happiness and peace, when the wrongs that have been done to them aren't central to the mind, they can forget about them.
and during these moments of peace they can forgive the wrongs that have been done to them. usually something bad happens again which reminds them of the pain, so they never really truly forgave the person.

in death, you will be one with all you love and cherish, and all that is good and right. and everything that distracted you from peace disappears, your mind doesn't have time to look at it, because it's busy being happy.
and this is what forgiveness does.
it allows you to forget about being a victim, and to rejoice in the gift of the present moment, to look at the gifts in your life rather than the victimization.

people do have the power to absolve sins, in themselves and each other, it just takes honest introspection, and respect for what is important- like peace and good feelings (love).

when you hate, you don't have forgiveness. hate is a poison, it's toxic to your system. so try to forgive and put off hate, and focus on the good things- and this is a sort of magic power that will slowly improve your life by altering your everyday thought patterns.

imagine if everyone on earth died at the same moment, right now.
all of us remember the good, and forget the bad.
those who were victimizers, who did bad, they are forgotten, they aren't remembered by anyone- and that is hell.
in heaven your mind only remembers what you love most, and you are everyone you loved, and you are one with everything you loved.
(god is love)


now let's talk about the ressurection.
the ressurection happened for many reasons.
it happened to prove a miracle to the people, to prove the existence of God dwelling among us.

all along jesus knew he would be crucified at the hands of the liar (the world lie-cycle, his opponent)
he did not tell his disciples that he would ressurect, not directly.
he left them cryptic messages, which they would only come to understand after his death.
and what is most important to this ressurection story is how christ was bound to Mary Magdalene (Womanhood)

people focus all their attention on christ as the redeemer, and they tend to exclude his female counterpart.
Mary Magdalene was the One only one who witnessed his death and ressurection.
And when she said he was living, and she went to tell the other disciples that she had seen him, they called her a Liar.

so this miracle was only for Mary, if it hadn't been for her, this miracle could not have taken place. by the power of her love.

i'm not sure what to say next but i enjoy questions.
it should be known that anyone who understands Christ, and loves the understanding of christ, it is the same as being him.
you are everything you love.
Christ died for our sins so that we wouldn't have to be put through what he went through. (of course we are put through what he went through, only in subtler forms, because of what he did)

would you allow yourself to be crucified if you knew it would give your family abundant Life? (or eternity)
because one day your body you're living in right now will in fact die.

Christ's ressurection was just one miracle, but a very powerful one.
Christ proved he was the son of god before this too, when he raised a dead man back to life- his name was lazarus, the brother of another Mary. there are 3 mary's in the gospel.
Mary is just a name for womanhood, as Jesus is just a name for manhood.

i hope this helped, and i'll be glad to clarify if you need.


--------------------

Law of Love

Edited by Telepylus (10/13/06 07:53 PM)

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6167066 -

psilocyberin said:
well... it is a 2 part discussion.

The first would be theorizing about the isolation of that "power" or affect that was born through jesus dying. By that same logic, there would have to be some power or effect that would be born.... and since the two actions were inverse of each other, sit would make sense (i guess) that the effects would be inverse as well.


but that's not neccessarily true. that's why i used the example of cashing your check doesn't undo the work you did, even though the money you earned can be seen as the inverse of the work you did.

Quote:
The secnd part is about forgiveness. i was talking about how the act is not exactly dependant upon the forgiver, and moreso on the forgivee... and how, if that forgivee died minutes after the forgiver forgave them, even if it was a false forgiveness (in the forgiver's mind), it was real (in the forgivee's mind) and therefor would "stick".... unless that was resurrected, then it would be possible to take that forgiveness back.....


that depends on how you define forgiveness, i can forgive someone in my mind and hold no more anger toward them, without their knowledge of it. for example, i can forgive a bully who made fun of me in middle school even if i never see him again, he just won't know it.

Quote:
Mostly it is just silly notions, but I am in some way serious about the first part...

also, I wasn't aware of the laws of Karma. Please enlighten me about these laws.
Also, where does Karma tie in with christianity?
I was hoping for a christian response, but I guess any explanation of this would be appreciated.

I dont really agree with the concept of karma, so, maybe i am not as hip to as why karma has anything to do with man being forgiven of his sins.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: porcupine]
    #6167139 -

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter in the universe is energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness sharing in and of itself subjectively, that there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves"


--------------------
"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
:mrt: I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car.      -mo0nlite_sonata
Psythos

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: TheGus]
    #6167189 -

Quote:
but that's not neccessarily true. that's why i used the example of cashing your check doesn't undo the work you did, even though the money you earned can be seen as the inverse of the work you did.



how is that in any way the inverse? a better analogy would be that if you work for a week and then spend all of your earned money on vacation, therefor nullifying your work and money earned.

Also, I understand the basics of karma, and since I am at work I dont really have time to read the entire wiki entry on it, so maybe you could explain how karma has anything to do with the resurrection of jesus?

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6167207 -

The resurrection is meant to reveal one of the great mysteries to us: That death is not real, nor is the world. The only reality is spirit.


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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: Silversoul]
    #6167219 -

so then sin would be illusory as well. thus bypassing this whole shitstorm.

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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6167224 -

The "original sin" is ignorance of our true nature, so in a sense, you are correct. But sin is in fact related to the identification with this world, and specifically with the ego. Jesus helps liberate us from this sin not through his death and resurrection, but through his teachings.


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Re: A problem i have always had with the resurrection [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6167937 -

psilocyberin said:
Quote:
but that's not neccessarily true. that's why i used the example of cashing your check doesn't undo the work you did, even though the money you earned can be seen as the inverse of the work you did.



how is that in any way the inverse? a better analogy would be that if you work for a week and then spend all of your earned money on vacation, therefor nullifying your work and money earned.


no, but if you work as a builder let's say and you build a house, even if you waste all the money you earned the house remains built. it doesn't fall down.

Quote:
Also, I understand the basics of karma, and since I am at work I dont really have time to read the entire wiki entry on it, so maybe you could explain how karma has anything to do with the resurrection of jesus?


one of the things jesus did by sacrificing himself was take on some world karma.

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