Icelander said:

Love (which I believe exists) does not = God.

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Icelander said:

God is a limited human concept IMO. Especially for those who define God based on their human emotional needs.

I prefer Tao as a much cleaner concept for all that exists.

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Okay, I agree that God can't be defined.  That's the point.  God is just a word, Tao is just a word.  Is either sufficient for what they actually are?  No.  My God is your Tao

Just because other people use God as an excuse for war and dogma doesn't mean that's what it really is.  To me, anyway.  Find it yourself, if it is God or Tao or whatever.  Just find it.

thatiAM said:

Icelander said:

Love (which I believe exists) does not = God.

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Okay, but I didn't say love is God.  Through love you will find God.

Icelander said:

God is a limited human concept IMO. Especially for those who define God based on their human emotional needs.

I prefer Tao as a much cleaner concept for all that exists.

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Okay, I agree that God can't be defined.  That's the point.  God is just a word, Tao is just a word.  Is either sufficient for what they actually are?  No.  My God is your Tao

Just because other people use God as an excuse for war and dogma doesn't mean that's what it really is.  To me, anyway.  Find it yourself, if it is God or Tao or whatever.  Just find it.

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Quote:

Icelander said:The trouble is that when you say God you are talking about a cultural idea that has too many definitions. So I can not agree that because I love I will find God. If I love I have found love and that is it and enough don't you think? That just keeps things a little cleaner for me.

I understand your concept of God may be much more encompassing than your average religious zealot, but how would I know that? The concept of God is much too abused and broad for me to be comfortable with it.And that is why I originally challenged your post.

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Fair enough.  Yes, love in itself is wonderful.  But you can take it farther than that if you want.  If I said I found dragons at the top of a mountain and you stop looking at the foothills then that is fine.  But it doesn't mean I'm crazy and dragons don't exist.  You just didn't check the top of the mountains yet   If checking the foothills is enough for you then certainly I can't make you climb that mountain.

I agree that people have silly-ly used God, and you are allowed to disagree with me of course.  But for me it is something beautiful that is completely obvious.  Please do use your own concept if God doesn't work for you.  Whatever it is, it is the same no matter what you call it.  Self, spirit, oneness, everything, nothing.

If everyone thinks the world is flat, that doesn't make it flat.  If everyone thinks God is vengeful, that doesn't make God vengeful.  God or Tao or whatever is what it is, and it's up to you to find out only as much about it as you want.  No more, no less.  If love is enough then stop there.

Huehuecoyotl said:

"I agree that people have silly-ly used God, and you are allowed to disagree with me of course. But for me it is something beautiful that is completely obvious. Please do use your own concept if God doesn't work for you. Whatever it is, it is the same no matter what you call"

I am sorry, but this is meaningless. You are purposefully softening your views with each post to make your softcore, non-threatening, Christianity more attractive. This either a tactic to force agreement in the eyes of the poster...yourself, or an insidious attempt to force agreement in others by appearing non-threatening and new age. State your views plain and quit candy coating them with meaningless, deceptive descriptve terms.

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I'm not christian and have not read the bible so I'll have to take your word for it that my views are christian.  If your idea of softcore non-threatening Christianity (what I am preaching, apparently) is unappealing to you, you certainly don't have to acknowledge it.  I didn't realize I was being that deceptive...Here are my main points:

-I don't give a damn how "aware" you are.  I give a damn that you are awake.

-Pretending that fear/uneasy feelings do(es)n't exist is insane.  It is here for us to grow and learn from.  If it weren't supposed to exist, it wouldn't.

-Freedom/awakeness will never come, it is.  Realize this.  No need to wait for anything (especially heightened awareness/states of bliss/any other million things that you think makes someone "enlightened") to wake up.  You already are awake.

-Start existing from this awakeness.  Be willing to learn what life has to offer and teach you, and accept all of it.  It means giving up struggling to maintain life, life takes care of itself.

-God is the everything that we are inseparable and no different from.  God is here when you stub your toe, God is here when you are bored, and God is here when you are full of peace.  God is awakeness.

Huehuecoyotl, I hope you aren't thinking I'm a dick for making a thread titled similarly to yours.  That was not my intention to undermine you or anything.  I saw your thread title and thought that this would make a good one too   Nobody has to do anything to be free, we already are all free.  Just realize it and act from that space of freedom.  That's all that's needed.  If this is non-threatening and you think it should be (or the other way around) then I don't know what to tell you.  This is simply what I'm saying.