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InvisiblethatiAM
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Registered: 06/14/06
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Freedom through freedom
    #5936407 - 08/06/06 08:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If you want to be 'free' then quit giving a damn about what stuff is. It doesn't matter if life sucks or if it is the best thing ever. Two people will tell you life is two different things. What is it REALLY? Well, it is life. This is the entire point.

Wallowing in your unenlightenedness or pridefully swinging your super enlightenedness around are both entirely divine, both are a part of the whole. All experience is divine experience. All is inseparable from God. So a rather unfulfilling and boring day is part of God too. By experiencing, it is our privelege to experience that. Simply because we are! YOU EXIST, you know? You are! Have we realized this? You are here, experiencing.

It means that all this and that and this and that is not a problem at all, this is divine experience as well. You already are what you are looking for. The fact that maybe you see it or maybe you don't is divine as well. So settle into your divinity. It is here and it can never go away, and it will never appear after sitting for 50 years in a monastery to slap you around and say, "Hey! NOW I'm here! It's a good thing you meditated for 50 years. Otherwise I wouldn't be here...Now you can relax. Life easymode turned on! Wooooo!"

Because it IS here! And if you have to go meditate for 50 years to see that it has already been here then that is fine and Godly too. But why wait? Why not just say fuck all that and realize it already? A bird pooping on you is Godly too.

Nothing is supposed to be anything. Thinking this life should be oh so divine or should be fun or should always be happy is the well of sorrows. So if you are sorrowful then FEEL it and experience it because that is what you are here to do. Then maybe it will go away, maybe it won't. But it won't matter because you are feeling it. You are! Am I making sense? YOU ALREADY ARE!!!

So you have the freedom to feel, even if you are feeling miserable. You are free! FREEEEEEEEEE. You don't have to censor your thoughts because they are the thoughts of an unenlightened person. You are free to think, too! Everything is so free!


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5936523 - 08/06/06 09:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

An excellant argument for being less aware?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5936614 - 08/06/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Just saying that what everyone is NOW is okay too. I'm not saying that people should just wallow in fear their entire lives. But if that's where they are now, that doesn't mean they can't be free right now while they are becoming more aware. Freedom is not 1,000 light years away, it is now. Increased awareness will come, but freedom will never come. Freedom already is.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5936668 - 08/06/06 11:19 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
An excellant argument for being less aware?




Maybe? There is some powerful truth in the origional post.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
    #5936704 - 08/06/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I see the truth in accepting that which is, and I see the posts value in that area. My comment, however, was a question to the poster about his intention in order to clarify my view of his meaning. I never said that I saw no truth. When a question mark ends a statement it indicates an effort to understand more fully.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5936739 - 08/06/06 11:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That's why I put ? in there also. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
    #5936758 - 08/06/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

O.K. You did have a "Maybe?" in there. I guess that qualifies as a question.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
    #5936791 - 08/06/06 12:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It was his ideas that were of interest. I don't know if he uses or abuses them. I came to a similar conclusion as he did a few years back. Just being is enough. If you can accept everything as being equal then you can be content. If you cannot accept human limitations then you are bound to suffer. Then we get into the question of how far do you "want" (not should) and are able to go on your path. As don Juan said, all the paths meet in the end.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
    #5936812 - 08/06/06 12:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Never said anyone should anything. Now, how far do I WANT to take it? As far as I can of course. I don't like half measures. I have found that really living "I don't like half measures" often requires a lot of nerve. If your going to be a bear...be a grizzly.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5936830 - 08/06/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

what makes me curious is who, exactly, you're arguing at? The post seems like more of a vent.


my reaction to your post is just "... Ok.. and?"


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5936856 - 08/06/06 12:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"I am all that I am and so be it..................I will not struggle with things I know I have no hope to 'get one over on'. I will give in to perfect talent and lesson the barriers of fear.."

This is freedom and I agree with much of what you say


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #5937814 - 08/06/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Nobody should be afraid to feel fear.  This is insanity.  Fear comes and goes but God never comes and goes.  It is impossible for God to come and go.  God loves us too much to come and go.  God is always here, loving.  Even in fear.  We are allowed to feel fear, you know.  We can grow from it, or not.  Either one is fine, whatever you want to do really.

But denying that it is here is insane.  Feel what is here.  Of course if you choose to be insane then that is up to you :smile:  And that's its own big well of divinity and ever-freedom.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5937895 - 08/06/06 06:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I kind of hate to ask this question, but it is a debate forum where one can be asked to provide some proofs of what they claim to know.

How do you know what God is, and thinks, and even if God exists?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (08/06/06 06:18 PM)


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
    #5938106 - 08/06/06 07:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I don't have to know, God isn't something anybody knows. God is self evident when you focus your love upon it. It's not some thing with a billion opinions about gay marriage and this and that. That all is ridiculous. God is very simple. Love that there is love. Love that love exists. Why bother trying to know something that never asked to be known?

It's just there to be there, to be loved and most of all to give love always and unconditionally. To every last one of us, even hitler.

Agree to learn. Agree to love. Then you can see that God doesn't have to be known.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5938153 - 08/06/06 07:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

God is self evident when you focus your love upon it.

IMO you're spouting non-sense. It's so typical of religious folk to determine reality for the rest of us. :tongue: :thumbdown: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
    #5938156 - 08/06/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ha, ha :smile:


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5938209 - 08/06/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, but did you actually do anything? Or are you just deciding that because it's easier?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5938214 - 08/06/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I did something. I said...I quote "Ha ha", as something struck me as funny. Isn't laughter and humor permitted here?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
    #5938517 - 08/06/06 09:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Was talking to icelander.  :smile:  I don't mean to sound like a dick, sorry.  Maybe should have used the quote function!  Watch me use it from now on.  :ooo:

Quote:

Icelander said:
God is self evident when you focus your love upon it.

IMO you're spouting non-sense. It's so typical of religious folk to determine reality for the rest of us. :tongue: :thumbdown: :mushroom2:




This is good!  So determine your own reality then.  This is the point.  Nothing is how I say it is, it is how it is.  Go find out for yourself.  You asked about God so I gave you a way to find out for yourself.  Fall into love.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5938685 - 08/06/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

can you fall into love by being alone?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: leery11]
    #5938901 - 08/06/06 10:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Sure.  By fall into love I don't mean fall in love with another person, although that's nice too.  I just mean this:  Notice how love exists?  Not just a flavor of love like love of a woman or love of the weekend, but the stuff of love from which love originates.  Love love itself.  Love that there is love.  This can be done alone in a forest or in new york city.

Just actually take time to love that there is love and appreciate it.  This can be done anywhere, anytime.  Fall in love with love :smile:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5940751 - 08/07/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Love (which I believe exists) does not = God.

God is a limited human concept IMO. Especially for those who define God based on their human emotional needs.

I prefer Tao as a much cleaner concept for all that exists.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
    #5941246 - 08/07/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Love (which I believe exists) does not = God.




Okay, but I didn't say love is God.  Through love you will find God.

Quote:

Icelander said:
God is a limited human concept IMO. Especially for those who define God based on their human emotional needs.

I prefer Tao as a much cleaner concept for all that exists.




Okay, I agree that God can't be defined.  That's the point.  God is just a word, Tao is just a word.  Is either sufficient for what they actually are?  No.  My God is your Tao :smile:

Just because other people use God as an excuse for war and dogma doesn't mean that's what it really is.  To me, anyway.  Find it yourself, if it is God or Tao or whatever.  Just find it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5941472 - 08/07/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

thatiAM said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Love (which I believe exists) does not = God.




Okay, but I didn't say love is God.  Through love you will find God.

Quote:

Icelander said:
God is a limited human concept IMO. Especially for those who define God based on their human emotional needs.

I prefer Tao as a much cleaner concept for all that exists.




Okay, I agree that God can't be defined.  That's the point.  God is just a word, Tao is just a word.  Is either sufficient for what they actually are?  No.  My God is your Tao :smile:

Just because other people use God as an excuse for war and dogma doesn't mean that's what it really is.  To me, anyway.  Find it yourself, if it is God or Tao or whatever.  Just find it.




The trouble is that when you say God you are talking about a cultural idea that has too many definitions. So I can not agree that because I love I will find God. If I love I have found love and that is it and enough don't you think? That just keeps things a little cleaner for me.

I understand your concept of God may be much more encompassing than your average religious zealot, but how would I know that? The concept of God is much too abused and broad for me to be comfortable with it.And that is why I originally challenged your post.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
    #5941711 - 08/07/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:The trouble is that when you say God you are talking about a cultural idea that has too many definitions. So I can not agree that because I love I will find God. If I love I have found love and that is it and enough don't you think? That just keeps things a little cleaner for me.

I understand your concept of God may be much more encompassing than your average religious zealot, but how would I know that? The concept of God is much too abused and broad for me to be comfortable with it.And that is why I originally challenged your post.




Fair enough.  Yes, love in itself is wonderful.  But you can take it farther than that if you want.  If I said I found dragons at the top of a mountain and you stop looking at the foothills then that is fine.  But it doesn't mean I'm crazy and dragons don't exist.  You just didn't check the top of the mountains yet :smile:  If checking the foothills is enough for you then certainly I can't make you climb that mountain.

I agree that people have silly-ly used God, and you are allowed to disagree with me of course.  But for me it is something beautiful that is completely obvious.  Please do use your own concept if God doesn't work for you.  Whatever it is, it is the same no matter what you call it.  Self, spirit, oneness, everything, nothing.

If everyone thinks the world is flat, that doesn't make it flat.  If everyone thinks God is vengeful, that doesn't make God vengeful.  God or Tao or whatever is what it is, and it's up to you to find out only as much about it as you want.  No more, no less.  If love is enough then stop there.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5944172 - 08/08/06 01:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If love is enough then stop there.

Who knows the depths of Love? If I ever get there I will have no other needs, is my guess. :wink: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5945364 - 08/08/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"I agree that people have silly-ly used God, and you are allowed to disagree with me of course. But for me it is something beautiful that is completely obvious. Please do use your own concept if God doesn't work for you. Whatever it is, it is the same no matter what you call"

I am sorry, but this is meaningless. You are purposefully softening your views with each post to make your softcore, non-threatening, Christianity more attractive. This either a tactic to force agreement in the eyes of the poster...yourself, or an insidious attempt to force agreement in others by appearing non-threatening and new age. State your views plain and quit candy coating them with meaningless, deceptive descriptve terms.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (08/08/06 07:34 PM)


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5945911 - 08/08/06 10:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"I agree that people have silly-ly used God, and you are allowed to disagree with me of course. But for me it is something beautiful that is completely obvious. Please do use your own concept if God doesn't work for you. Whatever it is, it is the same no matter what you call"

I am sorry, but this is meaningless. You are purposefully softening your views with each post to make your softcore, non-threatening, Christianity more attractive. This either a tactic to force agreement in the eyes of the poster...yourself, or an insidious attempt to force agreement in others by appearing non-threatening and new age. State your views plain and quit candy coating them with meaningless, deceptive descriptve terms.




I'm not christian and have not read the bible so I'll have to take your word for it that my views are christian.  If your idea of softcore non-threatening Christianity (what I am preaching, apparently) is unappealing to you, you certainly don't have to acknowledge it.  I didn't realize I was being that deceptive...Here are my main points:

-I don't give a damn how "aware" you are.  I give a damn that you are awake.

-Pretending that fear/uneasy feelings do(es)n't exist is insane.  It is here for us to grow and learn from.  If it weren't supposed to exist, it wouldn't.

-Freedom/awakeness will never come, it is.  Realize this.  No need to wait for anything (especially heightened awareness/states of bliss/any other million things that you think makes someone "enlightened") to wake up.  You already are awake.

-Start existing from this awakeness.  Be willing to learn what life has to offer and teach you, and accept all of it.  It means giving up struggling to maintain life, life takes care of itself.

-God is the everything that we are inseparable and no different from.  God is here when you stub your toe, God is here when you are bored, and God is here when you are full of peace.  God is awakeness.

Huehuecoyotl, I hope you aren't thinking I'm a dick for making a thread titled similarly to yours.  That was not my intention to undermine you or anything.  I saw your thread title and thought that this would make a good one too :smile:  Nobody has to do anything to be free, we already are all free.  Just realize it and act from that space of freedom.  That's all that's needed.  If this is non-threatening and you think it should be (or the other way around) then I don't know what to tell you.  This is simply what I'm saying.


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OfflineAmethyst
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5946548 - 08/09/06 04:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

We are free in our infinite potential but not free in our direct experience, thats what makes life interesting, if we were ALWAYS free, it would be meaningless. Sense of freedom is being in balance & harmony with oneself, tho one must be out of balance to define what balance is..... So freedom is very relative, it must be defined in order for it to exist.


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Amethyst]
    #5946703 - 08/09/06 07:01 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I disagree. A big part of freedom to me is not caring about definitions. There is no need to know what it is, you are it. You are awareness. Awareness doesn't have to be defined to be it, and any definition utterly fails. If we were always anything, life would still be valuable. Life would be valuable if you were in jail for your entire life or in a paradise, too. It is not lack of freedom that makes life meaningless, nothing can. Life is always meaningful simply because it is life.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
    #5947939 - 08/09/06 04:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"I hope you aren't thinking I'm a dick for making a thread titled similarly to yours."

Of course I do not. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery they say. I just made my comment because everytime Icelander posted a rebuttal you softened your point of view. This seems like an evangelical tactic...not the plain expression of ideas. This was just my take and my take alone.

"Pretending that fear/uneasy feelings do(es)n't exist is insane. It is here for us to grow and learn from. If it weren't supposed to exist, it wouldn't."

When did I ever state this that you should make a direct rebuttal of this idea. Fear is real and it does exist in my view, but irrational fear is ...well...irrational.

"No need to wait for anything (especially heightened awareness/states of bliss/any other million things that you think makes someone "enlightened") to wake up. You already are awake."

No one has to wait for an enlightened state. I did not discuss enlightenment as I do not believe that it can be attained. It is a journey not a destination. Awareness is not an unreachable state...and no one has to wait for it...one should just BE aware...no waiting. Action is power. I do not advocate waiting...go back and read my thread. I encouraged pure and uninhibited action.

Your posts here seem more like a rant than an imparting of life experience. As a matter of fact I saw no imparting of any experience which was all (my personal experience) that I discussed in my freedom thread. I don't have to defend practical personal experience as it is based in reality unlike most religions and philosophies based in occult or metaphysical concepts that cannot be proven. I just thought a few others might be interested enough to comment...and you did. Thanks.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisiblethatiAM
Stranger

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5948198 - 08/09/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"irrational fear is ...well...irrational"

Fear is seldom rational :smile:

"No one has to wait for an enlightened state. I did not discuss enlightenment as I do not believe that it can be attained."

Couldn't agree more.  Because we already are this enlightenment.  How can one attain awareness, or the state of being?  It is silly to even ponder, everyone already is!  There is nothing to attain there.  You are.  We are all already what we seek.

"Awareness is not an unreachable state...and no one has to wait for it...one should just BE aware...no waiting. Action is power. I do not advocate waiting...go back and read my thread. I encouraged pure and uninhibited action."

I guess it is just my opinion that awareness comes with time based on what I see this thing we call 'awareness'.  Wisdom and understanding cannot be attained by the experiences of others, it requires direct personal experience (well, at least in my experience it does...:lol)  I don't know what pure uninhibited action means.  If it means acting from the heart instead of the mind, acting out of compassion rather than selfishness...then I agree.  I already am, why not ease the existence of others?  God has taken care of me.  I only want to help and love God.  This is my viewpoint, and you are of course free to debase the existence of God or disagree with me all you want.  But if it is my way of acting in this way you promote, what problem is there?  I simply choose to call it God and I believe in that firmly.

"Your posts here seem more like a rant than an imparting of life experience. As a matter of fact I saw no imparting of any experience which was all (my personal experience) that I discussed in my freedom thread."

Hmm, probably! :lol  I tend to do that, I guess.  My hope is that through a rant people may understand that they exist!  That they are alive and free.  If I can do this with a rant or by any other means then it was worth it.  Why bother telling other people my personal experiences that proves this for me?  It would be pointless, personal experiences are personal.  Experience is earned on a person by person basis, personal experience is what gives us understanding.  If I can help foster this experience of realization then I will.  But explaining my process of realization would only seem to confound and stereotype what a completely unique and personal thing must be.

If I say I am free because I experienced xxxxx, people may look at xxxxx instead of looking in their heart for their own personal experiences.  No person is the same, why should experience be the same?  The unique spontaneous experience of experiencing unravels by itself and exactly how it wants, not how it did for me.

" I don't have to defend practical personal experience as it is based in reality unlike most religions and philosophies based in occult or metaphysical concepts that cannot be proven."

Many things cannot be proven.  If you are a skeptic, then you don't need to believe them.  Can I prove that reality is all just the dream of a butterfly?  No, but can I prove that it isn't?  No.  A rational skeptic would conclude that reality probably isn't all just the dream of a butterfly, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.  I believe what works for me.  It is already proven for me.  If something has yet to be proven to you then seek your own personal validation.  If it does not interest you then don't.  There is nothing that I can say that will prove any of this because it is all based on personal experiential knowledge.  There is no point in trying to prove it.  If it makes sense to the reader, then it makes sense.  If not, then that's okay too.

I just thought a few others might be interested enough to comment...and you did. Thanks."

Glad to! :smile:


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