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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Tape on of off?
    #5750519 -

Tomorrow, I will be inoculating 12 more jars, (I lost all 21 of the last bunch to some red contam.) My question is, after I inoculate them should I put the tape back over the holes or leave them off for air exchange? It seems like there are varying opinions on this subject. Also should I flame the needle in between every hole just to be safe? I thought that I was being careful last time (my first time), but every single jar that I stuck a needle in got contam, my two control jars didn't. But I do know that my brf and h2o ratios where all fouled up and my "cakes" were to wet and very dense.

Any reply is appreciated

phungi :cool: :mushroom2:


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"Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
    #5750543 -

I leave the tape on till I see growth then remove it, I do not flame myself, I saok a gauze pad with alcohol and wipe the needle after every jar, not every hole but I will also say this, do what you feel is the best method for you. There is nothing wrong with being to anal with your first time. If you are worried about contams(and you should be) then you do it the way you think is best. GL


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IS NOT THE JOURNEY OF THE TRIP JUST AS IMPORTANT AS REACHING THE DESTINATION.




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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: kilroy]
    #5750564 -

Man, I would leave the tape off and loosen the lids. Especially if you prepare your jars a little on the wet side. On half of my latest batch I left the lids loose and they literally colonized twice as fast as the others. Plus, when they colonize that fast it cuts down on contam probability. Do you have a layer of dry verm?


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"I'm sofa king we todd did." ~ Rick James

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
    #5750569 -

phungi said:
It seems like there are varying opinions on this subject.


Yep and that won't change in this thread. :wink:

If you are using a dry vermiculite layer on the top of your jars, you don't need to leave the tape. The vermiculite acts as a filter. The tape will block gas exchange and slow growth. It will work whether the tape is on or off, but not leaving it will make things happen faster. The debate is that some people are more paranoid about contams then others. If you are really paranoid, leave the tape. If not, take it off. Either way, this isn't a decision I would lose any sleep over. :smirk:


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Quick WBS Prep

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
    #5750670 -

Heres how I work, never had any contimnations.

First, get some Lysol spray, or Oust or something that will kill the bacteria in the air, and spray it everywhere...

Then, (I use a gas stove for this) I heat the needle red for every jar, not every whole, that seems a little obsessive.

I use bandaids instead of tape-100% sterile. I put bandaids on already when it was PC'ing, but I just poke the needle through these old ones, I dont bother taking them off.

After I inoculate them, I put new bandaids over the punctures ones, and then I store in shoeboxes.

Goodluck.


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Wild Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata

Cultivated Cubensis

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: MustardMan]
    #5750726 -

thanx for the replies. Yes I am using a dry verm layer, and yes I am a little paranoid about contams after that last fiasco. Of course it was my first time and I did get mycelium to grow, I just made a few mistakes with the mix for sure, this mix that I made today seems much better,(dryer) and cleaner looking, not clumpy like the last ones. I think that I'll leave the tape on until I see mycelium,(and only myceluim) and then I'll remove it. thanx agian for the replies, any other tips are welcome.

phungi


--------------------
"Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
    #5750750 -

I bet if you had 21 jars, and all of them were contaminated, It wasn't an issue with inoculating, but probably PC'ing them.

And btw, I left my tape on my jars the whole time, (also keep in mind I don't even use an incubator) and the jars were fully colonized in only 11 days :smile:


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Wild Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata

Cultivated Cubensis

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
    #5751048 -

phungi said:
thanx for the replies. Yes I am using a dry verm layer, and yes I am a little paranoid about contams after that last fiasco. Of course it was my first time and I did get mycelium to grow, I just made a few mistakes with the mix for sure, this mix that I made today seems much better,(dryer) and cleaner looking, not clumpy like the last ones. I think that I'll leave the tape on until I see mycelium,(and only myceluim) and then I'll remove it. thanx agian for the replies, any other tips are welcome.

phungi


There should be no mistakes with the mix if you use a 2:1:1 ratio verm:BRF:water. For 12 half pint jars, it would be 6 cups of verm, 3 cups of BRF and 3 cups of water. Mix it really good and put it in your jars loosely. I never PC'd PF jars more then an hour. www.fungifun.org has a really good writeup: PF Tek For Simple Minds.


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Quick WBS Prep

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
    #5751114 -

If you lost 21 jars to the same contam and your two controls didn't contaminate. And you flamed the needle between them...

You should send that spore syringe back for sure. It's definitely contaminated. No doubt about that. Your PCing was fine if your controls were fine.

There is no other way to figure that. Send the syringe back! That really sucks to have your first grow ruined by a bad syringe, but it happens. Even the best vendors sometimes send out a bad syringe. There is no way to have 100% sterility with the volumes of syringes that go out. It's not even really the vendor's fault, it just happens now and again.

5 shrooms for you for having a control!!


-FF


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It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: fastfred]
    #5751157 -

Shit, I should answer your questions...

As for the tape... I used to use tape, but it's a waste. There is no need for it. It serves no purpose. The foil is what keeps contams out. You don't even really need a lid if your sterile technique is good. It can slow down growth. If your jars colonize quick it's not a problem, but if they take too long they will stall if you use tape over the holes.

As for flaming between each hole... It shouldn't hurt, but I consider each jar as 1 unit, so it doesn't really make sense to flame after each hole. It probably would cause more contams since your tinfoil would be partly off for a longer period or removed and replaced more times if you are spending time flaming between holes. Just treat each jar like you would a test tube. Remove the cover inoc then cover again as fast as possible.


-FF


--------------------
It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: fastfred]
    #5751242 -

try and look for agars open air method. i knocked up 35 jars and i think maybe one is contam on my first try. basicaly keep needle wrapped in a paper towel soaked in alcohol and keep it around the needle. insert, then removing keeping it wrapped. should be easy to find. if u cant get it, pm me and ill find it for u.

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: gutmaggot]
    #5751264 -

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5296250#Post5296250
This is the open air inoc


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IS NOT THE JOURNEY OF THE TRIP JUST AS IMPORTANT AS REACHING THE DESTINATION.




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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: kilroy]
    #5752406 -

Thanx agian to all who posted, great advise!! Fastfred, I had definately thought that the syringes may have been contam, especially since the same red contam showed up in every single jar, I used two syringes from Hawks Eye, pf classic, and B+. I still have two more, Z-strain, and Puerto Rico, I plan to inoculate 10 pf style jars today with the Z-strain. I will keep two jars, from the twelve that I made yesterday, as a control group and inoculate the other 10. I will follow every sanitary tech that I know of. If that same red shit shows up in all of the jars that are inoculated, then I will know that the contam came from the vendor.

I threw the used syringes away, so if I determine that Hawk Eye did indeed send the contam in the syringes what should I do, just e-mail him?

Kilroy, thanx for the replies and the link, most helpful.

Phungi


--------------------
"Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
    #5752479 -

FooManShroom said:
phungi said:
It seems like there are varying opinions on this subject.


Yep and that won't change in this thread. :wink:

If you are using a dry vermiculite layer on the top of your jars, you don't need to leave the tape. The vermiculite acts as a filter. The tape will block gas exchange and slow growth. It will work whether the tape is on or off, but not leaving it will make things happen faster. The debate is that some people are more paranoid about contams then others. If you are really paranoid, leave the tape. If not, take it off. Either way, this isn't a decision I would lose any sleep over. :smirk:


Leaving the tape on often stalls jars so it will not work both ways FYI.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
    #5752498 -

It won't work both ways, meaning???

dont' put the tape back on the holes at all after inoculation?

I'm ok with that if its going to speed things along and most importantly insure success.

Thanx for the reply, I built an incubator and it looks like the temp in there is 81 deg far and 70 deg in the rest of the house, I can adjust it up or down. Whats the best temp since the mycelium will generate some heat?

Phungi


--------------------
"Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
    #5752507 -

Oh yea and "think about it" poses a good question, of course if you are leaving the tape off then your not putting the foil back on, or are you? God I'm a Newbie.!!!!


--------------------
"Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
    #5752512 -

phungi said:
It won't work both ways, meaning???

dont' put the tape back on the holes at all after inoculation?

I'm ok with that if its going to speed things along and most importantly insure success.

Thanx for the reply, I built an incubator and it looks like the temp in there is 81 deg far and 70 deg in the rest of the house, I can adjust it up or down. Whats the best temp since the mycelium will generate some heat?

Phungi


Putting the tape back on is unnecessary and redundant, of course it won't hurt to leave it on until myc growth first occurs when gases are first starting to be created it is best to leave it off when you had the chance it just makes life a bit easier thats all. Your fine at that temp but you can take better advantage of the temp drop trigger for pinning if you incubate a bit higher in temp 84-86F (optimal).


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
    #5752561 -

Cool, I can raise the temps easy enough, I got two of the adjustable aquarium heaters set up in the double dry box tech. Can you dig?

Thanx agian, I'll sterilize the shit out of the incubator and just leave the tape off.

Phungi


--------------------
"Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
    #5752779 -

hyphae said:
Leaving the tape on often stalls jars so it will not work both ways FYI.


I respectfully disagree. Remember, we're talking about the PF Tek, correct? I've left the tape on many times and it worked fine. The original PF Tek had no mention of taking the tape off of the holes. The reason was that the tek called for you to put the lids on upside down and leave the bands fairly loose, which provided enough gas exchange. So, it will work both ways FYI.


--------------------
Quick WBS Prep

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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
    #5753508 -

I will inoculate in 20 min. Should I loosen the lids immediately or wait till I see mycelium?


--------------------
"Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"

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