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phungi
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Tape on of off?
#5750519 - 06/14/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Tomorrow, I will be inoculating 12 more jars, (I lost all 21 of the last bunch to some red contam.) My question is, after I inoculate them should I put the tape back over the holes or leave them off for air exchange? It seems like there are varying opinions on this subject. Also should I flame the needle in between every hole just to be safe? I thought that I was being careful last time (my first time), but every single jar that I stuck a needle in got contam, my two control jars didn't. But I do know that my brf and h2o ratios where all fouled up and my "cakes" were to wet and very dense.
Any reply is appreciated
phungi
-------------------- "Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"
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kilroy
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
#5750543 - 06/14/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I leave the tape on till I see growth then remove it, I do not flame myself, I saok a gauze pad with alcohol and wipe the needle after every jar, not every hole but I will also say this, do what you feel is the best method for you. There is nothing wrong with being to anal with your first time. If you are worried about contams(and you should be) then you do it the way you think is best. GL
-------------------- IS NOT THE JOURNEY OF THE TRIP JUST AS IMPORTANT AS REACHING THE DESTINATION.
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HoleSnype
I love me some me.


Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 4,315
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: kilroy]
#5750564 - 06/14/06 06:40 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Man, I would leave the tape off and loosen the lids. Especially if you prepare your jars a little on the wet side. On half of my latest batch I left the lids loose and they literally colonized twice as fast as the others. Plus, when they colonize that fast it cuts down on contam probability. Do you have a layer of dry verm?
-------------------- "I'm sofa king we todd did." ~ Rick James
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
#5750569 - 06/14/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
phungi said: It seems like there are varying opinions on this subject.
Yep and that won't change in this thread. 
If you are using a dry vermiculite layer on the top of your jars, you don't need to leave the tape. The vermiculite acts as a filter. The tape will block gas exchange and slow growth. It will work whether the tape is on or off, but not leaving it will make things happen faster. The debate is that some people are more paranoid about contams then others. If you are really paranoid, leave the tape. If not, take it off. Either way, this isn't a decision I would lose any sleep over.
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Quick WBS Prep
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MustardMan
Peace Frog


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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
#5750670 - 06/14/06 07:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Heres how I work, never had any contimnations.
First, get some Lysol spray, or Oust or something that will kill the bacteria in the air, and spray it everywhere...
Then, (I use a gas stove for this) I heat the needle red for every jar, not every whole, that seems a little obsessive.
I use bandaids instead of tape-100% sterile. I put bandaids on already when it was PC'ing, but I just poke the needle through these old ones, I dont bother taking them off.
After I inoculate them, I put new bandaids over the punctures ones, and then I store in shoeboxes.
Goodluck.
-------------------- Wild Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata
 Cultivated Cubensis

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phungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: MustardMan]
#5750726 - 06/14/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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thanx for the replies. Yes I am using a dry verm layer, and yes I am a little paranoid about contams after that last fiasco. Of course it was my first time and I did get mycelium to grow, I just made a few mistakes with the mix for sure, this mix that I made today seems much better,(dryer) and cleaner looking, not clumpy like the last ones. I think that I'll leave the tape on until I see mycelium,(and only myceluim) and then I'll remove it. thanx agian for the replies, any other tips are welcome.
phungi
-------------------- "Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"
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MustardMan
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
#5750750 - 06/14/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I bet if you had 21 jars, and all of them were contaminated, It wasn't an issue with inoculating, but probably PC'ing them.
And btw, I left my tape on my jars the whole time, (also keep in mind I don't even use an incubator) and the jars were fully colonized in only 11 days
-------------------- Wild Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata
 Cultivated Cubensis

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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
#5751048 - 06/14/06 08:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
phungi said: thanx for the replies. Yes I am using a dry verm layer, and yes I am a little paranoid about contams after that last fiasco. Of course it was my first time and I did get mycelium to grow, I just made a few mistakes with the mix for sure, this mix that I made today seems much better,(dryer) and cleaner looking, not clumpy like the last ones. I think that I'll leave the tape on until I see mycelium,(and only myceluim) and then I'll remove it. thanx agian for the replies, any other tips are welcome.
phungi
There should be no mistakes with the mix if you use a 2:1:1 ratio verm:BRF:water. For 12 half pint jars, it would be 6 cups of verm, 3 cups of BRF and 3 cups of water. Mix it really good and put it in your jars loosely. I never PC'd PF jars more then an hour. www.fungifun.org has a really good writeup: PF Tek For Simple Minds.
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Quick WBS Prep
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
#5751114 - 06/14/06 08:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you lost 21 jars to the same contam and your two controls didn't contaminate. And you flamed the needle between them...
You should send that spore syringe back for sure. It's definitely contaminated. No doubt about that. Your PCing was fine if your controls were fine.
There is no other way to figure that. Send the syringe back! That really sucks to have your first grow ruined by a bad syringe, but it happens. Even the best vendors sometimes send out a bad syringe. There is no way to have 100% sterility with the volumes of syringes that go out. It's not even really the vendor's fault, it just happens now and again.
5 shrooms for you for having a control!!
-FF
-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: fastfred]
#5751157 - 06/14/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Shit, I should answer your questions...
As for the tape... I used to use tape, but it's a waste. There is no need for it. It serves no purpose. The foil is what keeps contams out. You don't even really need a lid if your sterile technique is good. It can slow down growth. If your jars colonize quick it's not a problem, but if they take too long they will stall if you use tape over the holes.
As for flaming between each hole... It shouldn't hurt, but I consider each jar as 1 unit, so it doesn't really make sense to flame after each hole. It probably would cause more contams since your tinfoil would be partly off for a longer period or removed and replaced more times if you are spending time flaming between holes. Just treat each jar like you would a test tube. Remove the cover inoc then cover again as fast as possible.
-FF
-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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gutmaggot
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Registered: 04/21/06
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: fastfred]
#5751242 - 06/14/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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try and look for agars open air method. i knocked up 35 jars and i think maybe one is contam on my first try. basicaly keep needle wrapped in a paper towel soaked in alcohol and keep it around the needle. insert, then removing keeping it wrapped. should be easy to find. if u cant get it, pm me and ill find it for u.
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kilroy
Hightimes



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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: gutmaggot]
#5751264 - 06/14/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- IS NOT THE JOURNEY OF THE TRIP JUST AS IMPORTANT AS REACHING THE DESTINATION.
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phungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: kilroy]
#5752406 - 06/15/06 05:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanx agian to all who posted, great advise!! Fastfred, I had definately thought that the syringes may have been contam, especially since the same red contam showed up in every single jar, I used two syringes from Hawks Eye, pf classic, and B+. I still have two more, Z-strain, and Puerto Rico, I plan to inoculate 10 pf style jars today with the Z-strain. I will keep two jars, from the twelve that I made yesterday, as a control group and inoculate the other 10. I will follow every sanitary tech that I know of. If that same red shit shows up in all of the jars that are inoculated, then I will know that the contam came from the vendor.
I threw the used syringes away, so if I determine that Hawk Eye did indeed send the contam in the syringes what should I do, just e-mail him?
Kilroy, thanx for the replies and the link, most helpful.
Phungi
-------------------- "Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"
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hyphae
born to grow


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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
#5752479 - 06/15/06 06:19 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooManShroom said:
Quote:
phungi said: It seems like there are varying opinions on this subject.
Yep and that won't change in this thread. 
If you are using a dry vermiculite layer on the top of your jars, you don't need to leave the tape. The vermiculite acts as a filter. The tape will block gas exchange and slow growth. It will work whether the tape is on or off, but not leaving it will make things happen faster. The debate is that some people are more paranoid about contams then others. If you are really paranoid, leave the tape. If not, take it off. Either way, this isn't a decision I would lose any sleep over.
Leaving the tape on often stalls jars so it will not work both ways FYI.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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phungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
#5752498 - 06/15/06 06:42 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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It won't work both ways, meaning???
dont' put the tape back on the holes at all after inoculation?
I'm ok with that if its going to speed things along and most importantly insure success.
Thanx for the reply, I built an incubator and it looks like the temp in there is 81 deg far and 70 deg in the rest of the house, I can adjust it up or down. Whats the best temp since the mycelium will generate some heat?
Phungi
-------------------- "Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"
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phungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
#5752507 - 06/15/06 06:46 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh yea and "think about it" poses a good question, of course if you are leaving the tape off then your not putting the foil back on, or are you? God I'm a Newbie.!!!!
-------------------- "Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"
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hyphae
born to grow


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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
#5752512 - 06/15/06 06:50 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
phungi said: It won't work both ways, meaning???
dont' put the tape back on the holes at all after inoculation?
I'm ok with that if its going to speed things along and most importantly insure success.
Thanx for the reply, I built an incubator and it looks like the temp in there is 81 deg far and 70 deg in the rest of the house, I can adjust it up or down. Whats the best temp since the mycelium will generate some heat?
Phungi
Putting the tape back on is unnecessary and redundant, of course it won't hurt to leave it on until myc growth first occurs when gases are first starting to be created it is best to leave it off when you had the chance it just makes life a bit easier thats all. Your fine at that temp but you can take better advantage of the temp drop trigger for pinning if you incubate a bit higher in temp 84-86F (optimal).
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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phungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
#5752561 - 06/15/06 07:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Cool, I can raise the temps easy enough, I got two of the adjustable aquarium heaters set up in the double dry box tech. Can you dig?
Thanx agian, I'll sterilize the shit out of the incubator and just leave the tape off.
Phungi
-------------------- "Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
#5752779 - 06/15/06 08:44 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said: Leaving the tape on often stalls jars so it will not work both ways FYI.
I respectfully disagree. Remember, we're talking about the PF Tek, correct? I've left the tape on many times and it worked fine. The original PF Tek had no mention of taking the tape off of the holes. The reason was that the tek called for you to put the lids on upside down and leave the bands fairly loose, which provided enough gas exchange. So, it will work both ways FYI.
--------------------
Quick WBS Prep
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phungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
#5753508 - 06/15/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I will inoculate in 20 min. Should I loosen the lids immediately or wait till I see mycelium?
-------------------- "Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
#5753554 - 06/15/06 01:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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When doing the PF tek...
I inoculate the jars and put the tape back on...
til I get colonization started in the jars...
when I get mycelium growth the size of a quarter...
I pull the tape off completely!~
my jars are done in 8 to 14 days depending on the strain.
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
#5753582 - 06/15/06 01:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
phungi said: I will inoculate in 20 min. Should I loosen the lids immediately or wait till I see mycelium?
Quote:
FooManShroom said: Either way, this isn't a decision I would lose any sleep over.
--------------------
Quick WBS Prep
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phungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
#5753977 - 06/15/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Done deal!! 11 jars total, 1 control only. Tape off!! Very sterile worksite and incubator, temps in incubator alittle high right this minute, 87 deg far. is that too hot?
If theres contams this time I really think its from the vendor.
phungi
-------------------- "Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
#5754339 - 06/15/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooManShroom said:
Quote:
hyphae said: Leaving the tape on often stalls jars so it will not work both ways FYI.
I respectfully disagree. Remember, we're talking about the PF Tek, correct? I've left the tape on many times and it worked fine. The original PF Tek had no mention of taking the tape off of the holes. The reason was that the tek called for you to put the lids on upside down and leave the bands fairly loose, which provided enough gas exchange. So, it will work both ways FYI.
The original PFTek made no mention of loosening the lids that of course would have solved the stalling problem that has been so prevalent over the years. BTW FooMan I've seen this problem so many times it's not funny and we have solved this by allowing gas exchange, you can disagree all you want but apparently you haven't seen the problems people have been having over the years, seal up or down doesn't matter they both can seal bro and many don't know enough to loosen the lids that is something I've been pushing for years. It will not work sealed period! Lets get the story straight here ok?
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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phungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
#5756277 - 06/16/06 04:46 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yea get the damned story strait . Especially since I'm such a newbie and I hang on every word that you people say .
I really got the feeling that on that last run moisture levels where way to high. Heres what I did, I used the PF tech for simple minds, and mixed the subsitrate for 12 jars at once instead of individually like the original tek calls for. My mix seemed clumpy and dry to me so I foolishly added just a little more water...oops (I,m too used to gardening). I realize now that that was a mistake. Then after loading the jars, they looked "wrong" to me,, not like in the pics, they looked "clumpy" and soggy. I should have stopped right there and gotten on this board!! But I was anxious to use my new PC. So 15 psi for 45 min. Now you know the rest of the story, I inoculated and contams ate me alive .
Nice to know that I'm on the learning curve now though, the jars that I just made seem just right to me and look just like the ones in the pics, I mixed and loaded them one at a time this time. 1/2 cup Verm, 1/8 cup BRF, 42cc's of h2o, I stayed on the dry side alittle.
Now I pray to the mushroom gods.....Give Me Success!!!
I am ordering a new batch of syringes, I don't want to order from Hawks Eye agian, since the contam may have come from him, who would you all recommend??
I know, anyone who advertised here right? But who are you guys using and getting really good success with??
All replies are appreciated. 
Phungi.
-------------------- "Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"
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kilroy
Hightimes



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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
#5756465 - 06/16/06 07:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have had nothing but great results from Ralphstersspores.com and would not use anyone else. I would also liketo state for the record that no one is perfect all the time, so if your sryinge was contam, it could happen from any of the venders. If you contact THE(The Hawks Eye) I am sure they would replace it for you just to keep you happy just like all of the other shroomery sponsers. I like Ralphs alot of recommend him to all, but you should give hawk a chance to make it right, if not then use Ralphstersspores. GL
-------------------- IS NOT THE JOURNEY OF THE TRIP JUST AS IMPORTANT AS REACHING THE DESTINATION.
Edited by kilroy (06/16/06 07:49 AM)
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phungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: kilroy]
#5756799 - 06/16/06 10:22 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I realize that "shit happens", I'm not pissed, and maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the vendor by name. The contam could have just as easily come from me and my inexperience, my reason for "passing the buck" is the fact that all the jars had the same contam, you would think that at least the ones that were inoculated right after flaming would have escaped the "red death", unless it was in the spore solution..... oh well, like I said, I'll wait and see if that same shit shows up this time, different strain but from the same order. If it does, I'll see if its in them all and not my control. If all that happens then I will contact the vendor. Thanx for the advise, I've already printed out the order form for Ralphster Spores!!
Phungi
Phungi
-------------------- "Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"
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Magash
Da Bud Guru


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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
#5756840 - 06/16/06 10:41 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I may as well throw in my two cents. Copy of a old post.
I know this belongs in the growlog forum but it seems more would see it here that can use it. That and I?m sure most have seen it already but maby somebody can use this to help them out.
Grow Log Tek : PF Strain : South American [SA] Spores : Came from homemade prints. 36 total jars to be injected. Substrate :Brown Rice Flour [BRF] and Vermiculite [Verm] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10:15 PM 3/4/03 : Project is started. Jar prep is just putting small holes in the lids for the spore syringe and then taping them closed until inoculation. Tape used is the standard black electrical tape. First batch of jars is mixed. The mix used is 2 parts verm, 1 part water, and 1 part brf. [ This mix is the max fruiting formula by PF.] Mix is put into 1/2 pint canning jars lightly, not packed in, and left it airy. Put substrate in until it reaches the threads of the jar, then add dry verm the rest of the way. Jars are PCd at 10psi or 240f for a period of 45 minutes. Then jars were left to sit overnight to cool.
<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/23611-pic_1.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>
8:39 PM 3/5/2003 : First batch of jars injected. (24 jars)
10:04 AM 3/6/2003 : Incubator is running to low 77F. Going to turn it up today.
<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/69842-Pic_2_.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>
5:45 PM 3/6/2003 : Second batch of jars is in the PC will be injected tomorrow. Turned up incubator runs at 83F. 86F is the best and if the incubator is 83F and myc growing in the jars is suppose to create a little heat I figure this should work out well.
1:11 PM 3/7/2003 : Second batch of jars is done. (12 jars)
12:10 PM 3/9/2003 : Jars are doing good, no signs of contams
<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/74102-Pic_3_.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>
2:54 AM 3/19/2003 : Tape removed from the holes today and coffee filters put over the top of the jars for added protection. Holes were opened so the CO2 in the jars could escape. I gave 12 jars to a friend who kept fucking up. 24 jar?s about 75%done.
<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/89166-Pic_4.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>
12:13 PM 3/22/2003 : Well it?s Saturday and the jars will probably be done by the 25th. So it was 36 jars. 12 were given to a friend, 24 done by Tuesday.
10:26 PM 3/23/2003 : 15 jars were done enough to put into dunk. I dunk and cold shock before birthing and after every flush. The other 9 jars have a spot the size of a pea that has to be covered so I?ll do those on the 25th.
<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/81008-pic_5.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>
7:17 PM 3/24/2003 : 15 jars put into the pod. Put in and put a layer of moist verm on top. With geolite I just put the cakes on it. With some other chambers I put the cake on a lid filled with verm. This is done to give the shrooms on the bottom and the top of the cake some added moisture. The other 9 jars just finished so I?m going to give them a couple more days to make sure the middle of the cake is done.
<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/68648-Pic_6.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>
4:57 PM 3/27/2003 : 5 More cakes birthed today, 4 left going to do them tomorrow or 3/29/2003
3:58 PM 3/29/2003 : Well I lost another cake. My wife?s little 1 cake pod made from a 2 liter and a small fish pump and a little geolite used up her last cake so I gave her a SA to grow. The last 3 are in the cold shock dunk. So the total is 36 jars done all colonized with no contams. 12 given to a friend, 1 to the wife, 23 mine
12:08 PM 3/30/2003 : Last of jars put in
12:02 PM 3/31/2003 : The first 15 cakes are pinning nicely and some have shrooms coming from the bottom.
<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/38858-Pic_7.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>
11:01 AM 4/3/2003 : Things look to be going well.
<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/55988-Pic_8_.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>
1:02 AM 4/4/2003 : Took the first flush from four of the cakes. More will be done later today. <a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/36336-Pic_9.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>
5/8/2003 : Total 23 cakes 164 grams dried.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
#5760573 - 06/17/06 12:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said: The original PFTek made no mention of loosening the lids that of course would have solved the stalling problem that has been so prevalent over the years.
Directly copied and pasted from the original PF Tek, which can be found at www.fungifun.org:
Quote:
PF Said: THE CANNING JAR LID (loose or tight)
There are two choices with the lids during incubation - tight or loose. With a very high moisture content (good for fruiting), a tight lid can cause water to collect in the bottom of the jar. This is to be avoided. If it happens, the lid should be kept on loose during incubation. Tape the canning jar lid to the band to make the lid act as a one piece lid for raising and lowering. If the substrate is on the dry side, a tight lid will preserve the moisture content. It is all a matter of the balance between the water needs of the mycelium, the size of the jar, the available air space in the jar and the type of vermiculite used. Only by simple experimenting and comparison can the right balance be found for a given set of conditions. Take notes and go with what fruits the best.
Quote:
hyphae said:BTW FooMan I've seen this problem so many times it's not funny and we have solved this by allowing gas exchange, you can disagree all you want but apparently you haven't seen the problems people have been having over the years, seal up or down doesn't matter they both can seal bro and many don't know enough to loosen the lids that is something I've been pushing for years. It will not work sealed period! Lets get the story straight here ok?
Read the tek again Hyphae. The rings are left loose so that the lids don't seal and steam can easily enter the jar during PC'ing. Yes, PF says to tighten the lids after PC'ing, but also says to experiment and take notes to see what works best. By simple observations, anyone could figure out that loosening the lid a little helps speed growth.
You seem to think that I'm disagreeing with you on the gas exchange, I'm not. What I'm saying is that when you follow the directions of the original PF tek by turning the lids upside down and adjusting the tightness according to what worked best, YOU CAN LEAVE THE TAPE ON!
I've got the story straight, you just don't like how I tell it.
To the confused newbie: The bottom line is that you should have some way to provide gas exchange, whether by taking the tape off, loosening the lid or using some kind of filter in your lid.
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Quick WBS Prep
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
#5761721 - 06/17/06 08:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was referring to the PFTek instructions that comes with the original syringes, there have been some modifications to the original tek BTW. We were talk sealed jars stalling BTW, I agree and have always preached loose lids and no tape. If you point out to our new growers that with leaving the tape on you will need to loosen the lids to allow for gas exchange thats a story I can live with bro, you and me we are on the same page
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
#5763679 - 06/18/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't think anyone answered his question on the foil...
Leave the foil on at all times (pull it partly off for inoculation). Leave it on until you are ready to birth. I think people have removed the foil for a lot of their pics, which could be confusing for a noob. The foil is there to prevent contams from falling down your holes. Contams fall downward so there's no way that a contam could float an inch or two up the side of the jar then a few cm sideways and then down you hole. You can do jars with no lids and only foil protecting them from contams.
As for the dirty syringe... You owe it to Hawk to give him a chance to make it right. It really can happen to anyone. A single fly or tiny little gnat can get into the fruiting chamber and walk all over the mushies contaminating them with bacteria, so it happens even to the best. I would bet that the other syringes will be fine. So don't give him a bad rep for something that is almost impossible to prevent. I know you'll both be happier if you just swap it for another one.
I'm not sure if most vendors want the syringe back or not, but you should save them. You'll be wishing you did when you get into more advanced teks and start using liquid inoculate, making your own syringes, etc.. You can sterilize them by sucking up boiling water, and most of them will survive at least a few rounds in the PC.
As for tape on or off and the looseness of the lids... Leaving the tape on can work. If the myc colonizes fast from 4 different inoc sites then it will usually colonize fine, especially if you omit the verm layer and don't completely replace it with additional substrate. Or if you use LC it will often work. However, it's not reliable and jars will sometimes stall out. So I don't think it's a good way to go. Way back when I grew, I tried to keep the entire process as sealed as possible and would tape the holes before PCing. This would result in a vacuum and suck down a syringe quickly when punctured. The vacuum would suck in a bunch of dirty air so it was a lot worse than just leaving them open. I also tried taping all but one and would leave a piece of tape next to the hole to cover it once the jars cooled. But in the end, it didn't work very well as sometimes jars would do fine other times they would stall at 75% or even 50%. Usually they all worked or all stalled, so I can see how some people who had good results a few times would advocate this method. However, it's not reliable and doesn't provide as much of a benefit as you would expect as to sterility.
-FF
-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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