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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
    #5753554 - 06/15/06 01:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

When doing the PF tek...

I inoculate the jars and put the tape back on...

til I get colonization started in the jars...

when I get mycelium growth the size of a quarter...

I pull the tape off completely!~


my jars are done in 8 to 14 days depending on the strain.


tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


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PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
    #5753582 - 06/15/06 01:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

phungi said:
I will inoculate in 20 min. Should I loosen the lids immediately or wait till I see mycelium?




Quote:

FooManShroom said:
Either way, this isn't a decision I would lose any sleep over. :smirk:




--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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Offlinephungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
    #5753977 - 06/15/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Done deal!! 11 jars total, 1 control only. Tape off!! Very sterile worksite and incubator, temps in incubator alittle high right this minute, 87 deg far. is that too hot?

If theres contams this time I really think its from the vendor.

phungi


--------------------
"Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
    #5754339 - 06/15/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FooManShroom said:
Quote:

hyphae said:
Leaving the tape on often stalls jars so it will not work both ways FYI.




I respectfully disagree. Remember, we're talking about the PF Tek, correct? I've left the tape on many times and it worked fine. The original PF Tek had no mention of taking the tape off of the holes. The reason was that the tek called for you to put the lids on upside down and leave the bands fairly loose, which provided enough gas exchange. So, it will work both ways FYI.




The original PFTek made no mention of loosening the lids that of course would have solved the stalling problem that has been so prevalent over the years. BTW FooMan I've seen this problem so many times it's not funny and we have solved this by allowing gas exchange, you can disagree all you want but apparently you haven't seen the problems people have been having over the years, seal up or down doesn't matter they both can seal bro and many don't know enough to loosen the lids that is something I've been pushing for years. It will not work sealed period! Lets get the story straight here ok?


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Offlinephungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
    #5756277 - 06/16/06 04:46 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yea get the damned story strait :mad:. Especially since I'm such a newbie and I hang on every word that you people say :grin: :grin:.

I really got the feeling that on that last run moisture levels where way to high. Heres what I did, I used the PF tech for simple minds, and mixed the subsitrate for 12 jars at once instead of individually like the original tek calls for. My mix seemed clumpy and dry to me so I foolishly added just a little more water...oops (I,m too used to gardening). I realize now that that was a mistake. Then after loading the jars, they looked "wrong" to me,, not like in the pics, they looked "clumpy" and soggy. I should have stopped right there and gotten on this board!! But I was anxious to use my new PC. So 15 psi for 45 min. Now you know the rest of the story, I inoculated and contams ate me alive :eek:.

Nice to know that I'm on the learning curve now though, the jars that I just made seem just right to me and look just like the ones in the pics, I mixed and loaded them one at a time this time. 1/2 cup Verm, 1/8 cup BRF, 42cc's of h2o, I stayed on the dry side alittle.

Now I pray to the mushroom gods.....Give Me Success!!!

I am ordering a new batch of syringes, I don't want to order from Hawks Eye agian, since the contam may have come from him, who would you all recommend??

I know, anyone who advertised here right? But who are you guys using and getting really good success with??

All replies are appreciated. :cool: :cool:

Phungi.


--------------------
"Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"


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Offlinekilroy
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
    #5756465 - 06/16/06 07:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I have had nothing but great results from Ralphstersspores.com and would not use anyone else. I would also liketo state for the record that no one is perfect all the time, so if your sryinge was contam, it could happen from any of the venders. If you contact THE(The Hawks Eye) I am sure they would replace it for you just to keep you happy just like all of the other shroomery sponsers. I like Ralphs alot of recommend him to all, but you should give hawk a chance to make it right, if not then use Ralphstersspores. GL


--------------------
IS NOT THE JOURNEY OF THE TRIP JUST AS IMPORTANT AS REACHING THE DESTINATION.





Edited by kilroy (06/16/06 07:49 AM)


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Offlinephungi
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: kilroy]
    #5756799 - 06/16/06 10:22 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I realize that "shit happens", I'm not pissed, and maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the vendor by name. The contam could have just as easily come from me and my inexperience, my reason for "passing the buck" is the fact that all the jars had the same contam, you would think that at least the ones that were inoculated right after flaming would have escaped the "red death", unless it was in the spore solution..... oh well, like I said, I'll wait and see if that same shit shows up this time, different strain but from the same order. If it does, I'll see if its in them all and not my control. If all that happens then I will contact the vendor. Thanx for the advise, I've already printed out the order form for Ralphster Spores!!

Phungi

Phungi


--------------------
"Don't Steal. The government hates competition!!"


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InvisibleMagash
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: phungi]
    #5756840 - 06/16/06 10:41 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I may as well throw in my two cents. Copy of a old post.

I know this belongs in the growlog forum but it seems more would see it here that can use it. That and I?m sure most have seen it already but maby somebody can use this to help them out.

Grow Log
Tek : PF
Strain : South American [SA]
Spores : Came from homemade prints. 36 total jars to be injected.
Substrate :Brown Rice Flour [BRF] and Vermiculite [Verm]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10:15 PM 3/4/03 : Project is started. Jar prep is just putting small holes in the lids for the spore syringe and then taping them closed until inoculation. Tape used is the standard black electrical tape. First batch of jars is mixed. The mix used is 2 parts verm, 1 part water, and 1 part brf. [ This mix is the max fruiting formula by PF.] Mix is put into 1/2 pint canning jars lightly, not packed in, and left it airy. Put substrate in until it reaches the threads of the jar, then add dry verm the rest of the way.
Jars are PCd at 10psi or 240f for a period of 45 minutes. Then jars were left to sit overnight to cool.

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/23611-pic_1.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

8:39 PM 3/5/2003 : First batch of jars injected. (24 jars)

10:04 AM 3/6/2003 : Incubator is running to low 77F. Going to turn it up today.

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/69842-Pic_2_.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

5:45 PM 3/6/2003 : Second batch of jars is in the PC will be injected tomorrow. Turned up incubator runs at 83F. 86F is the best and if the incubator is 83F and myc growing in the jars is suppose to create a little heat I figure this should work out well.

1:11 PM 3/7/2003 : Second batch of jars is done. (12 jars)

12:10 PM 3/9/2003 : Jars are doing good, no signs of contams

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/74102-Pic_3_.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

2:54 AM 3/19/2003 : Tape removed from the holes today and coffee filters put over the top of the jars for added protection. Holes were opened so the CO2 in the jars could escape. I gave 12 jars to a friend who kept fucking up. 24 jar?s about 75%done.

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/89166-Pic_4.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

12:13 PM 3/22/2003 : Well it?s Saturday and the jars will probably be done by the 25th. So it was 36 jars. 12 were given to a friend, 24 done by Tuesday.

10:26 PM 3/23/2003 : 15 jars were done enough to put into dunk. I dunk and cold shock before birthing and after every flush. The other 9 jars have a spot the size of a pea that has to be covered so I?ll do those on the 25th.

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/81008-pic_5.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

7:17 PM 3/24/2003 : 15 jars put into the pod. Put in and put a layer of moist verm on top. With geolite I just put the cakes on it. With some other chambers I put the cake on a lid filled with verm. This is done to give the shrooms on the bottom and the top of the cake some added moisture.
The other 9 jars just finished so I?m going to give them a couple more days to make sure the middle of the cake is done.

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/68648-Pic_6.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

4:57 PM 3/27/2003 : 5 More cakes birthed today, 4 left going to do them tomorrow or 3/29/2003

3:58 PM 3/29/2003 : Well I lost another cake. My wife?s little 1 cake pod made from a 2 liter and a small fish pump and a little geolite used up her last cake so I gave her a SA to grow. The last 3 are in the cold shock dunk.
So the total is 36 jars done all colonized with no contams. 12 given to a friend, 1 to the wife, 23 mine

12:08 PM 3/30/2003 : Last of jars put in

12:02 PM 3/31/2003 : The first 15 cakes are pinning nicely and some have shrooms coming from the bottom.

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/38858-Pic_7.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

11:01 AM 4/3/2003 : Things look to be going well.

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/55988-Pic_8_.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

1:02 AM 4/4/2003 : Took the first flush from four of the cakes. More will be done later today.

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/040103-23/36336-Pic_9.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

5/8/2003 : Total 23 cakes 164 grams dried.


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
    #5760573 - 06/17/06 12:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
The original PFTek made no mention of loosening the lids that of course would have solved the stalling problem that has been so prevalent over the years.




Directly copied and pasted from the original PF Tek, which can be found at www.fungifun.org:

Quote:

PF Said: THE CANNING JAR LID (loose or tight)

There are two choices with the lids during incubation - tight or loose. With a very high moisture content (good for fruiting), a tight lid can cause water to collect in the bottom of the jar. This is to be avoided. If it happens, the lid should be kept on loose during incubation. Tape the canning jar lid to the band to make the lid act as a one piece lid for raising and lowering. If the substrate is on the dry side, a tight lid will preserve the moisture content. It is all a matter of the balance between the water needs of the mycelium, the size of the jar, the available air space in the jar and the type of vermiculite used. Only by simple experimenting and comparison can the right balance be found for a given set of conditions. Take notes and go with what fruits the best.




Quote:

hyphae said:BTW FooMan I've seen this problem so many times it's not funny and we have solved this by allowing gas exchange, you can disagree all you want but apparently you haven't seen the problems people have been having over the years, seal up or down doesn't matter they both can seal bro and many don't know enough to loosen the lids that is something I've been pushing for years. It will not work sealed period! Lets get the story straight here ok?




Read the tek again Hyphae. The rings are left loose so that the lids don't seal and steam can easily enter the jar during PC'ing. Yes, PF says to tighten the lids after PC'ing, but also says to experiment and take notes to see what works best. By simple observations, anyone could figure out that loosening the lid a little helps speed growth.

You seem to think that I'm disagreeing with you on the gas exchange, I'm not. What I'm saying is that when you follow the directions of the original PF tek by turning the lids upside down and adjusting the tightness according to what worked best, YOU CAN LEAVE THE TAPE ON!

I've got the story straight, you just don't like how I tell it. :wink:

To the confused newbie: The bottom line is that you should have some way to provide gas exchange, whether by taking the tape off, loosening the lid or using some kind of filter in your lid.


--------------------

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: FooMan]
    #5761721 - 06/17/06 08:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I was referring to the PFTek instructions that comes with the original syringes, there have been some modifications to the original tek BTW. We were talk sealed jars stalling BTW, I agree and have always preached loose lids and no tape. If you point out to our new growers that with leaving the tape on you will need to loosen the lids to allow for gas exchange thats a story I can live with bro, you and me we are on the same page  :thumbup:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Tape on of off? [Re: hyphae]
    #5763679 - 06/18/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think anyone answered his question on the foil...

Leave the foil on at all times (pull it partly off for inoculation). Leave it on until you are ready to birth. I think people have removed the foil for a lot of their pics, which could be confusing for a noob. The foil is there to prevent contams from falling down your holes. Contams fall downward so there's no way that a contam could float an inch or two up the side of the jar then a few cm sideways and then down you hole. You can do jars with no lids and only foil protecting them from contams.

As for the dirty syringe... You owe it to Hawk to give him a chance to make it right. It really can happen to anyone. A single fly or tiny little gnat can get into the fruiting chamber and walk all over the mushies contaminating them with bacteria, so it happens even to the best. I would bet that the other syringes will be fine. So don't give him a bad rep for something that is almost impossible to prevent. I know you'll both be happier if you just swap it for another one.

I'm not sure if most vendors want the syringe back or not, but you should save them. You'll be wishing you did when you get into more advanced teks and start using liquid inoculate, making your own syringes, etc.. You can sterilize them by sucking up boiling water, and most of them will survive at least a few rounds in the PC.

As for tape on or off and the looseness of the lids... Leaving the tape on can work. If the myc colonizes fast from 4 different inoc sites then it will usually colonize fine, especially if you omit the verm layer and don't completely replace it with additional substrate. Or if you use LC it will often work. However, it's not reliable and jars will sometimes stall out. So I don't think it's a good way to go. Way back when I grew, I tried to keep the entire process as sealed as possible and would tape the holes before PCing. This would result in a vacuum and suck down a syringe quickly when punctured. The vacuum would suck in a bunch of dirty air so it was a lot worse than just leaving them open. I also tried taping all but one and would leave a piece of tape next to the hole to cover it once the jars cooled. But in the end, it didn't work very well as sometimes jars would do fine other times they would stall at 75% or even 50%. Usually they all worked or all stalled, so I can see how some people who had good results a few times would advocate this method. However, it's not reliable and doesn't provide as much of a benefit as you would expect as to sterility.


-FF


--------------------
It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

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I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid


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