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InvisibleOlgualion
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Pan trop Question (pic)
    #560681 - 02/23/02 03:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I know this isn't exactly advanced, but it has more chance of getting answered here, so:

Dude had a big Pan trop straw block (12x10x6). He cased it and started getting losts of mold, was about to trash it, but noticed one tiny mushroom beginning. He figured he would try to get the one to mature for a print and clone. Here it is, now on peroxidated MYA:


**Note: the perspective is off, because the plates are 150x15 instead of the regular 100x15.

There is only one third of the original stem there and yes that IS the cap. The other two thirds of the stem were placed on their own plates.

First, what do you think chances of survival are?

and,
Second, Why the hell are they so small???? They were grown using the same fruiting params as cubies, except there was only a thin casing.

Thanks,


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InvisibleNighted

Registered: 11/10/01
Posts: 564
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: Olgualion]
    #561264 - 02/24/02 05:23 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I haven't done Pans yet but I have a Pan. Trop. print and plan on it as soon as I can find some @#$%ing shit. It's hard to find here before the spring gardening centers start up full swing again and for some reason those sons of bitches at Zoodoo won't answer their phone or emails. ANYWAY, are you using straw alone? I'm under the impression from the research done leading up to the aquisition of my Pan. print that this species grows *much* better with the addition of manure to the substrate. Also I don't think Pans grow nearly as large as cubensis.


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Edited by Nighted (02/24/02 05:26 AM)


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: Nighted]
    #561364 - 02/24/02 09:42 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I have also heard that the trops do better and also contam less on a substrate containing some manure. Dude had already spawned the straw by the time I realised this. I know they grow small, but this is ridiculous! Maybe 5 inches tall and les than 1/8th in diameter (cap maybe 3/16 th inch).


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OfflineAzure
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Registered: 01/01/99
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Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: Olgualion]
    #561540 - 02/24/02 02:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

blue means damaged or oxidized tissue. That mushroom in the picture looks completely blue.
The mushrooms are very small because the competitor molds are not giving the pan mycelium a chance to utilize the substrate. It is also very energy taxing to fight contams, and more energy goes to this than fruiting.


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Anonymous

Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: Olgualion]
    #561682 - 02/24/02 05:55 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Pan. tropicalis is a small mushrrom. It grows very tall, but cap size is small.
The stems range in size up to 120 mm tall, and the caps are typically less then 25 mm in diameter.

When thinking Pan. tropicalis, cyanescens, or cambodginiensis, think small. Don't even try to compare sizes with cubensis. They never get that big.

When cloning shrooms, you want to take a piece of the shroom, not the whole thing. It is best with the fragile small Pan.'s to cut into the thin stem and take only a portion of cut stem interior, or cut a small section of the stem, if you have trouble getting inside. The new growth will occur at the cut ends in the latter scenario, or from the entire exposed inner tissue. Inner tissue is always better, then outer tissue. It's morphology is suited towards growth, more so then the exterior tissue. It's also cleaner.

The stem cuttings, you don't have pictured will probably work better then the rest of the shroom you have pictured. When cloning, you never want to have the entire cap present. Spores could be present, and then you don't have a clone.

Your shroom does look very blue, as stated. When the mushrooms surface becomes saturated with water, this always happens to some degree. It happens less, if you can get a nice healthy piece of mycelium from internal tissue.



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OfflineB.I.O.
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Registered: 05/27/99
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Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: ]
    #561690 - 02/24/02 06:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i cant say that pan trops. are really tiny....depends on substrate...i used past. cowdung spawned with grainspawn...



the biggest caps were 4 cm in diameter...

BiO.



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Anonymous

Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: ]
    #561696 - 02/24/02 06:11 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

P.S. A nice mixture of 4 parts manure: 1 part ryeseed: 1 part perlite works excellent for pans. Just pre soak the manure over night to leach a bit, drain for 24 hours, mix in the dry perlite, and then pre soaked and drained rye seed. Load one and a half cups into quart jars. Pressure cook for 1 hour plus at 15 psi, cool over night, and innoculate directly from agar. Lay out as many as needed to fill your tray, leaving enough room for the very thin casing layer.

Manure is much better then straw. When using Field composted cow patties, contamination is negligible, unless it is introduced with the casing layer. Store bought composted manure works also in this mix, but it does have a tendency to contaminate by the end of the second, or third flush. Have gotten up to six flushes off of 3 cup substrate casings, when using the field composted cow pies.(The dried up cow pies, not freshies).

Pans are great, but expect yields to be much less then any cubensis. Potency however is drastically increased. Total quantity of trips produced is still in favor of cubensis, even with the increased potency of the Pan.'s, but quality of trip is in favor of the Pan.'s for sure, IMO.

Good luck with the clones, the stem pieces, should work fine. That's how I got mine. Getting inside was difficult. Just small, cut at both ends, pieces of stem in the 2-4 mm range worked great.

I recommend transfering any visibly clean material to non peroxidated plates before transferring to substrate, just to make sure they are clean!!! Better to find out on a petri, then in a bunch of casings!!!


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Anonymous

Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: B.I.O.]
    #561698 - 02/24/02 06:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Four cm, you sure they are Pan. trops? Got any prints for trade. That is huge BIO!!! Where did the spores originate from, Geographically? I know cyanescens gets that big, so tropicalis probably does to. Just never saw one in cultivation get that big.



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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: ]
    #561999 - 02/25/02 12:26 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

Teonan,

Much thanks for the in depth reply.  Tried to slice the stem, but it was so small that I don't think tissue could have been retrieved from the inside.  The two other plates not pictured seem to be doing well.  The stem was sliced in half lengthwise, so 50% of the surface area of it should be inner stem.  The original print that was used was so light, it only made one syringe (didn't have plates when it was used).  So I actually wouldn't mind if some spores did drop and begin colonizing the pictured plate :smile:  Assuming the mycelium takes to at least one of the plates, I really hope that the donor mushroom is not all this culture can do(size wise).  Hopefully Azure is correct when he said the small size is possibly due to the mycelium fighting off the contams.  I really should have taken a picture.  It was funny seeing one tiny shroom among a forest of green(in a huge tray).

Thanks again guys!

Oh and what do you think about the probability that this strain can produce at least average size Pan trops?  Or too many factors to even guess? 


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Offlinedendro
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Registered: 03/05/99
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Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: Olgualion]
    #564986 - 02/27/02 07:09 PM (15 years, 28 days ago)

I once picked some trops from horse manure in the So Pacific that had 2" caps...


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Anonymous

Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: dendro]
    #565225 - 02/27/02 11:22 PM (15 years, 27 days ago)

That seems to be the high end of fruit diameter.


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Offlinethem_26
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Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: ]
    #566771 - 03/01/02 12:47 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Isn't it a good idea to wipe the outside of the stem w/ alcohol(damp ppr towel) before cutting to remove the tissue? I believe I read that somewhere awhile back


Edited by them_26 (03/01/02 12:53 PM)


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Invisiblenot2sure
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Registered: 02/02/02
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Loc: west coast
Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: them_26]
    #567237 - 03/01/02 10:10 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

a friends cyans have been growing exceptionally well, for a firsttimer anyway. she skipped the incubation period all together and put the casing in the fruiting chamber right away and a week or two later you start seeing pins. shes still honing her technique on how to get an even pin set, but shes had a few 3cm caps already which produced the darkest prints shes ever seen. these two 3cm caps blackened the casing in the day they matured. very fast stuff. she fruited them at 74-76f



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Offlinehermes3
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Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: ]
    #571638 - 03/06/02 04:22 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

What is the difference between pan trops and pan cyans? I have had luck with pan cyans (pes I think). What about Ralph's Pan trop Florida?


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Anonymous

Re: Pan trop Question (pic) [Re: them_26]
    #571924 - 03/06/02 11:08 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

If you are going inside the stem, it isn't absolutely necessary. Alcohol might be a bit extreme. I have used iodine on wild mushrooms, as a surface sterilizer. I haven't found it to be necessary with indoor grown mushies. The key to success with cloning is to do DUPLICATES. If you see some contamination, transfer away from it immediately.

Try and clone tissue that is internal!!!

Pan. cyanescens has larger spores then Pan. tropicalis. The tropicalis also has internally granulated spores. Tropicalis is also 2 spored, versus 4 spored!!!! I believe it has Homothallic breeding strategies. Every spore is binucleate, or if uninucleate will mate with any other spore. Some matings will be better then others, but the majority are fertile, if not all are!!!


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