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InvisibleDaxMiddler
journeyman
Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 77
Loc: Cambodia
Casing Questions, Need some help
    #557473 - 02/20/02 02:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I am trying casing for the first time right now. I used standard PF spores and half pint jars. I put 1 inch of 50/50+ about 2 inches of cake and then another half inch layer of 50/50+. Does that sound right? For a 12x17 inch tray I ended up using 18 jars. Am I making my cake layer excessivly thick? I read a little while ago somone was saying that the 50/50+ mix had too much lime in it. Was that just a personal opinion, or should I modify my technique? My casings look ok, but only one has produced one shroom. It has taken a very long time (a month) after casing them and I still don't see great results. Next time I'm thinking I'll try with Equadors and Puerto Ricans. What do you suggest I do differently?

Dax
Lies, Lies, Lies, Big Liar.


--------------------
Dax

What I write is a lie. I read it somwhere else.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,262
Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: DaxMiddler]
    #557476 - 02/20/02 03:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Well I hate to tell you, but  the standard PF strain (Matias Romero) does NOT do well in casings. I have heard this, yet I have never actually experienced doing this.

18 cakes... Thats a lot. :frown: Unfortuently you probably could have gotten a lot more mushrooms out of just plain ol cakes. In a months time, you also should have seen at least 3 flushes, depending on the strain of course.
Its really sad to see all the time you've put into it, and only got a lousy shroom. I personally do not know if you could remedy this situation, and get more mushrooms.

Next time go for the B+. It fruits great, and is a beautiful strain. It's an average colonizer, and so easy... :smile: It does great on casings too. Im not sure about why the PF strain does not do well on casings.

Sorry to hear about that. Maybe someone more experienced could point you in the right direction on possibly saving your casing.

Are you sure everything is nice a moist, and your humidity is at 95% + ? 


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Registered: 11/17/01
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Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: DaxMiddler]
    #557492 - 02/20/02 03:31 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Yes the hydrated lime they tell you to add to the 50/50plus is a little too excesive. You only need a 3-5 teaspoons.

Did you use hydrated lime? The other kinds are totaly different.

Sorry to hear you used 18 jars in one casing, thats really putting all your eggs in one basket. Maybe try doing smaller 2 jar casings in meatloaf sized tins so you can experiment, if one casing doesnt work out then its only 2 jars, not 18. Thats what I do anyways, especialy since Im doing casing for the first time right now.
Good luck with everything, Im sure your learning alot like I am too!


--------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes
I'll know, I know
Just take my clothes and leave
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InvisibleDaxMiddler
journeyman
Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 77
Loc: Cambodia
Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: Northernsoul]
    #557497 - 02/20/02 03:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm sorry to hear I have done somthing sooo bad. The casing did colonize well though... I was expecting more from it. I don't really see how the cakes couldn't like where they are, moist and well protected. I did use hydrated lime though, so I'm glad I did that right. I'll try cutting my lime in half and see if I notice any difference.

Do you think that the Equador or Puerto Rican would be better next time? What else should I change? Did I make my cake layer too thick?

Dax
I'm a big FAT liar.


--------------------
Dax

What I write is a lie. I read it somwhere else.


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OfflineMaddoc
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Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: DaxMiddler]
    #557510 - 02/20/02 04:03 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, dont worry about all these people trying to put you off, your casing should do fine so long as you dont overwater it, overlay it or let it get contaminated.

Firstly, next time dont use a bottom layer of casing mix, many feel its useless, and just adds to contam. risk, and makes the mycelium use more engergy colonizing that, rather than fruiting. However, some say it helps prevent overwatering by absorbing excess.

Your choice really.

Eq or PR will do fine in casing. Also, when did you purchase your PF spores, you may have recieved the degnerated race, meaning you should write to PF, and he will send you a new syringe of "better" spores.


--------------------
"Your Gimmiky Restraunt - By J.R. Bennigans"


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InvisibleDaxMiddler
journeyman
Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 77
Loc: Cambodia
Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: Maddoc]
    #557521 - 02/20/02 04:11 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

It hasn't been overwatered, it barely had water beading down the sides and I have been giving it air every day. I won't use a bottom layer of casing next time. I did one with, and one without. One tray colonized noticably faster 7days! But my marking fell off of the tub and I don't know which is which. I'll do a little probing and find out later.

Neither tray is contaminated, and they look good with little sprouts of mycelium reaching upwards. Will those turn to pins? One tray has pins near one edge. I purchased those PF spores around christmas time, maybe a little before. I think I'm going to be purchasing from Lil'Shop from now on, they have a much better deal.

When you say degenerated race, what exactly do you mean? Like the origional shrooms aren't used anymore? They are all made from successive batches and its kind of like inbreeding? hehe. What kind do you case personally? What method do you use?

Thanks,
Dax

Insane in my membrane.


--------------------
Dax

What I write is a lie. I read it somwhere else.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,262
Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: DaxMiddler]
    #557560 - 02/20/02 05:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Once again dax, PF strain does not do well in casings.

However, you can still just keep trying to produce hyphal knots. First of all, make sure you dont have any overlay. This is when the top layer of the casing has been completely colonized by the mycelium. This dries out the layer, and makes it impermiable for water absorbtion into the casing.

If you do have this, try scratching it, and re-applying a thin layer of casing again.

If this is not the case, then make sure your humidity is at a steady 95%, fanning is good, but dont overfan. Keep your casings moist, by misting them 1-2 times a day, depending on humidity. Keep them moist and keep the air moist until you see signs of knots. once you see this, you can expect to see pinheads form within 2-3 days. Pinheads come, then you lower your rH to ~85%.

The object is to keep the casing at its optimum, maximum moisture content, BUT not by making it wet. Just keep it moist, thats all. Pinheads need this in the first stages of development. Dont fan too much either, it will lower the humidity.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: angryshroom]
    #558125 - 02/21/02 03:17 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>make sure you dont have any overlay. This is when the top layer of the casing has been completely colonized by the mycelium.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< But dont you want that?? I have alot of mycelium comming thrugh, I thought that was a good sighn so Im leaving it


--------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes
I'll know, I know
Just take my clothes and leave
And I'll be gone




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InvisibleDaxMiddler
journeyman
Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 77
Loc: Cambodia
Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: Northernsoul]
    #558986 - 02/21/02 10:47 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

There are a few patches of overlay... I'll scratch those tonight and give it a light misting. What should I do to induce more pinning? They have been given light for about 12 a day for 2 weeks now and only a few shrooms near the edges. My house varies from 64-72 degrees or so over the course of the day. Any good ideas for me. Thanks.

Dax.
Bada bing, Bada bullshit.


--------------------
Dax

What I write is a lie. I read it somwhere else.


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InvisibleWakingUpLate
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Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 559
Loc: Born on a mountain, Raise...
Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: DaxMiddler]
    #559192 - 02/22/02 02:19 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The PF that I've seen loved the casings. They were received
from PF about Dec. 18 th and have flushed once as cakes and
twice since as casings. They did work better as two cake casings
than four for some reason. I think I'd try straight verm next
time. :peace:
 


--------------------
The rest of those, who have gone before us,
cannot settle the unrest of those who follow.
(Finding Forrester)


Edited by WakingUpLate (02/22/02 02:22 AM)


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: DaxMiddler]
    #559327 - 02/22/02 05:23 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Overlay is when the ENTIRE casing layer is colonized, and has begun to take on a matted appearence. If there are small blotches of colonized casing, this is normal. You just dont want mycelium completely colonizing the casing layer due to the fact it will not be a casing. The mycelium drinks up out all of the water, and defeats the purpose of having a casing.

If your shrooms are coming out from the sides, this is an indictaion your casing is TOO dry and they are looking for the moist sides of the tray to fruit on. Also, if you've already gotten fruits, then you probably dont want to scratch it until they are done fruitng!


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InvisibleDaxMiddler
journeyman
Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 77
Loc: Cambodia
Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: angryshroom]
    #560225 - 02/22/02 11:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Jeeze.... I think I went about this all wrong. I'm pressure cooking some casing tonight, and tomorrow I'm going to make some new ones with Puerto and Equadors. I am going to make much smaller casings, 2-4 cakes each. I am using a modified 50/50+ mix, I cut down to 1/3 the amount specified.

Maybe I don't understand the time line/process for casing? Last time I left them in the dark for almost 3 weeks until I saw a majority of mycelium on the top and then I exposed them to light. How should I do it this time? What do I look for to know when to give light, etc? Do you reccomend misting? Scratching? What kind of bottom layer? I've read lots of teks, but many of them seem to conflict. Could somone tell me what I should do EXACTLY before I try anything new on my own? Thanks for all the help!

Dax.
I am a big fat pinochio liar.


--------------------
Dax

What I write is a lie. I read it somwhere else.


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Anonymous

Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: DaxMiddler]
    #560274 - 02/23/02 12:44 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Just don't incubate your casing so long. 24-48 hours max. When you see the mycelium in 1 or 2 places, place it in the fruiting chamber.

P.Ricans need a thicker casing layer, and you can always initiate after 24 hours of incubation.

GO with the Equadors!!!! They are prolific FRUITERS, not just prolific PINNERS, and with early initiation they won't overlay.

INITIATE EARLIER. 3 weeks of casing colonization is beyond EXCESSIVE.


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Anonymous

Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: angryshroom]
    #560278 - 02/23/02 12:58 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Cubensis are very easy to FRUIT. That is why there are so many TEKS and why there are differences between them. They fruit in a broad range of parameters.
On many different substrates.
Just keep within this Range, keep contamination out, and Initiate your casings earlier.
You got a fruit, so you were within this range!!!




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Offlinedi11rod
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Registered: 12/04/01
Posts: 179
Last seen: 7 years, 6 days
what tek are you referring to, teonan [Re: ]
    #560376 - 02/23/02 04:08 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

When you say "place it in the fruiting chamber", what tek are you referring to? I have yet to find a detailed tek that describes casing in terms of a colonization chambers and fruiting chambers. Is the fruiting chamber different in humidity only (lower rH), or is it also warmer / colder?

Appreciatively,

di11rod


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InvisibleDaxMiddler
journeyman
Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 77
Loc: Cambodia
Re: what tek are you referring to, teonan [Re: di11rod]
    #560674 - 02/23/02 03:27 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I'm gaining slight confidence in my next attempt. I appreciate all of your help. What should I use for the bottom layer? Last time I did one tray with straight vermeculite and one tray with casing. The casing tray is doing much better. What are some of your personal experiences with this? I will be making 2 Puerto and 2 Equador trays later today. Thanks for all of the help.

Dax.
Somone poked my brain with a needle once. I haven't been quite the same since.


--------------------
Dax

What I write is a lie. I read it somwhere else.


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OfflineBeppoMarx
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Registered: 09/01/01
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Re: what tek are you referring to, teonan [Re: DaxMiddler]
    #560733 - 02/23/02 04:51 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

dax i hope you read this in time :smile:
use moist; microwaved perlite or vermiculite on the bottom layer; 1/4 to 1/2 inch will do; all it does is collect waste and excess water; which isnt really even a problem anyway.
take some ziplock bags and get your colonized jars. dump the cakes from the jars into the bags. squeeze teh air from teh bags and seal them up. now crumble them w/ your hads into small pieces. you will have die to quarter sized chunks left in there but most should be crushed fine like gravel. lay it in your casing tray 1.5 inches if its a small casing (like 4"x4") up to 2 or 3 inches if its larger. keep it nice and flat and pat it down a bit after you put it in; it will be a solid brick of mycellium soon anyway; and teh more compact is good just you dont want to crush the vermiculite particles.
the casing should not have too much lime in it. think of it this way: it works fine without lime; adding it just brings it closer to optimal. use it sparingly; i use 1 stick of crayola chalkboard chalk in a casing for a larger 12x8 casing. also use a THICKER casing on the PR's. whatever you use on the eq's use a good 25% more on PR's. they will rip thru it.
cover it and keep it incubated like teonan said for about 48 hours. actually the PR's i would do  less than that; maybe 12 or 18 hours or even not at all. the 'ricans are very difficult your first time but the ecuadors will do you very well.
after that just keep them humid and air 1-2x a day.


--------------------
Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!


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InvisibleDaxMiddler
journeyman
Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 77
Loc: Cambodia
Re: what tek are you referring to, teonan [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #560930 - 02/23/02 09:03 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You did catch me in time. Thanks a lot. I'm thinking I'll bake my perlite right now (microwave sux) for about 15-30 minutes and use that in the bottom. Perlite seems much more sanitary than vermeculite to me. Its it your feeling that the PR are much stronger that the EQ? That is what I have been reading, so I'm hoping that I'll have good success with those. How do they compare to PFs in strength? I'll keep you guys posted and put some pics up when I see some results.

Dax
We are the lieing knights that say Ni! Ni! Ni!


--------------------
Dax

What I write is a lie. I read it somwhere else.


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InvisibleDaxMiddler
journeyman
Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 77
Loc: Cambodia
Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #564479 - 02/27/02 03:36 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I made 6, 5 cake casings, 3 puerto, 3 equador. And then 2 days later I made one more puerto and one PESA. After giving them light, what is my next step? I have been giving them fresh air 6 times a day via pump, and I know the humidity is around 85%. How long until fruiting? Do I just wait. Thanks for all of your help.

Dax.
I am but a pawn.


--------------------
Dax

What I write is a lie. I read it somwhere else.


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InvisibleWakingUpLate
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Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 559
Loc: Born on a mountain, Raise...
Re: Casing Questions, Need some help [Re: DaxMiddler]
    #564501 - 02/27/02 04:18 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You need higher humidity (95%) until they pin.:peace:
 


--------------------
The rest of those, who have gone before us,
cannot settle the unrest of those who follow.
(Finding Forrester)


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