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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271585 -

This is just fucking ridiculous. Sure, cut 'em off and make handbags out of 'em, let me rip your thumbnails off with pliers and we'll use them for clasps.

This is so shitty. I would shake the shit out of you in person.

Wake up!


--------------------
:orly:


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271598 -

Quote:
I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.


No matter how hard you try, you will not beabe to do this. You will always be a girl, each sex has its own "tell tell" signs with or without sexual organs.

Also another point I would like to bring up. Even though you are employed now what happens if you loose this job?? Most employers won't hire somebody that looks "weird". Im not saying that I agree with this but it is also something to factor in.

All in all if you are set on doing it and have thought long and hard about later down the road and come to the conclusion you still want to just do it!!


--------------------
yawn...
SG

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: DarkFluFFy]
    #5271621 -

I wish fetishes still turned me on. NOTHING turns me on. Meh. I think it is from the click click warez servers. The servers that send you on a link chase for the L/P. Always pretty wierd stuff. I don't think anything creeps me out anymore. There are things out there, dark things, things that make even goatse.cx tremble.


--------------------
Give your money or your life
Take 'em both for all I care
Dump your bullets right here

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271675 -

EllemyshShade said:
No one will get shot down in this thread. I really do appreciate every reply, even the unsupportive and brutally honest ones. They're valuable too, and I should hear them.


Ok against my better judgment I am going to make this post, because you asked for brutal honesty. I asked my friends to be brutally honest about how they viewed me a few years ago and it was very insightful.

Spend the surgery money on some therapy. Ever since you started posting at the shroomery I thought you were unbalanced and yes, "crazy". I realize "normal" is arbitrary and crazy isn't necessarily bad, but when your own actions and thoughts are having such detrimental effects on your quality of life then something is wrong and I believe you are "crazy" for continuing to subject yourself to it.

I can't and won't bother posting specifics because they aren't important but my general feeling is that you have some serious deep issues that need dealing with, and in general you are running away from them (either by smoking/drinking them away or by running into your fantasy book world for protection). Changing your body to fit the image of your book's character is just another attempt at running from your problems.

Quote:
For one thing, in societies mind, I am canceling out the most obvious thing that makes me female. It sickens me to think of how people fixate on breasts, like they're something so special, like the breast is what makes a woman.


Gross generalization. Society is a collection of individuals but instead you have decided to see them as one mass, with one train of thought. Perhaps you are projecting your own feelings/frustrations/insecurities onto "society" and then blaming "society" for creating these insecurities in the first place. That seems like a way to absolve any responsibility you might have for your own problems, transferring blame to the external. Perhaps that is why you are seeking to change to the external, hoping it will in turn affect the internal? Well that sounds like a cop-out to me since the problem seems to originate internally. It is time to stop playing the helpless victim and accept responsibility for your own actions and thoughts.


Quote:
It is just another example of me taking hold of the reins of my own reality.


You talk about having the control over your own reality to guide it through an infinite number of possibilities, so then why is adjustment of your own mind/thought process excluded from this control? Your reality is much more than just the physical component, and if you talk about truly having control over your reality, then control over your mind/thoughts is entirely within your reach.

Quote:
Because there are infinite realities for me to explore and experience, I shouldn't fear doing anything on my behalf during this one.


What do you fear about leaving your body the way it is? If you really have nothing to fear, then why even bother with this in the first place?

Good luck elle, I hope you didn't take any of this the wrong way and I hope you get everything sorted out in the future, I really do. But I seriously doubt lopping off some random blobs of flesh is going to help the situation.


--------------------
"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: TheDude]
    #5271740 -

Thanks, I will not take anything the wrong way.  In fact, you made a lot of sense. 



Microcosmatrix said:
This is just fucking ridiculous. Sure, cut 'em off and make handbags out of 'em



I was going to keep them in jars for my husband's sake.  :wink: :smirk:

:crazy2:

Since apparently it bears repeating:  I'm not cutting off my breasts tomorrow, or the next day, or month, or even year or ten.  It may never happen at all.

Edited by EllemyshShade (02/07/06 12:35 AM)

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271773 -

EllemyshShade said:
Since apparently it bears repeating:  I'm not cutting off my breasts tomorrow, or the next day, or month, or even year or ten.  It may never happen at all.


The best of luck to you, no matter what you decide, love.  :heart:

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271836 -

EllemyshShade said:
How do you know a delusion is a delusion?


The person with the delusion can almost never tell. Because it integrates itself into their sense of reality. It can literally alter their entire sense of what is actually real. So, a very severe delusion over a period of time is capable of developing into full blown insanity. And of course most arguments presented against a delusional person will be shot down. Their first and often only response is to assume that the person telling them these things is an idiot or a fool. It's far easier to beleive that someone else is wrong than it is to beleive that your perception is wrong, the mind hates that, it does terrible, foolish things to protect itself from that.

What you describe rotated around a character in a book. As nice as fiction is, there is no bridge between that which we make up and that which exists. Fiction is forever and always nothing but a bunch of creative ideas that exist only in the mind. How do you think you can reincarnate into a character in a book you wrote? How does this character exist? They are nothing more than an idea conveyed by ink on paper or by pixels on a screen. There is no substance in such a character. There is no "reality" in fiction, the only way fiction can feel real in a meaningful sense is with use of a deep, complex delusion which can easily become addictive. Getting immersed in creativity is one thing, but the second a person begins to think that the fiction could be real is when they're not thinking sensibly anymore.

A real hint at delusion is when somebody begins to like their fantasy so much that they're willing to make sacrifices in the real world in their pursuit of something fictitious. So they decide that in pursuit of this fantasy they have, they should alter their body, or remove their breasts. It helps them immerse themselves in the fantasy so they can spend more time in their fictitious world, or so they find such a world easier to beleive in.

Of course you yourself do not think you're delusional. Perhaps one in 1,000 people are capable of identifying their own delusions. It really requires a concerned third party to actually see and recognize a delusion.

You would likely argue that what is real is subjective, but is it not possible that you argue that because it's easier to keep beleiving in your fantasy? Your own subconscious mind is capable of manipulating you more than any other person is, it can make you beleive things that aren't true, it can make you disagree with people because it's more comfortable with what it allready beleives, it can fabricate intricate delusions because it thinks the fantasy is more pleasant than reality.

Two questions:
1. Are you happy with your real life?
2. Is there anything going on in your real world (emotionally, spiritually, physically, or with relationships) that you might want to try and hide from or get away from?

Don't think about each briefly, and mutter a convenient no. Spend a day or two, look for evidence that those questions might have a "yes" or even a "maybe". And hell, just spend a little money to go have a few checkups with a therapist and see if they can be of benefit to you in some way. It cannot do any harm.

Edited by Konnrade (02/07/06 01:12 AM)

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Konnrade]
    #5271981 -

Quote:
How do you think you can reincarnate into a character in a book you wrote? How does this character exist?


Are you sure I should explain it?  It's kind of a long story, but I'll try to make it short...basically, when I understood that GOD is love and is everything seen and UNSEEN that I truly understood the awesome creative power that is GOD.  And then I started to understand my role in things, which I've been trying to grasp my entire life, and then over time and especially after reading Conversations with God and I realized that GOD is speaking to me all the time, through messages embedded in ordinary reality that I only have to be aware of to recieve. 

So if GOD is everything seen and unseen, pure CONSCIOUSNESS, then that means GOD is imagination too.  In fact, imagination is a great tool of GOD and happens to be the fuel of my being.  I cannot live without it, cannot.  It may seem silly, but when I do not have a story going, I am miserable and unhappy, like I "have no purpose," like I am adrift in life.  All my life I've known there was a book for me to write.  So finally...I started writing it a few years ago. 

As for how I can reincarnate into it...well, GOD being everything has a lot to do with that.  Since I am GOD too (we all are) I see no reason why I can't simply reincarnate into my book, created by imagination, part of GOD. 

And my character is just as "real" as I am, in "his" (for the sake of simplicity) reality.  He is just another facet of GOD, playing a different game. 

The game I'd like to play next (or have already played or am playing since all time happens at once), which is why I'm writing about it.  I intend on having fun with GOD, now that I know I can. 

So that's my reasoning. 

Ever since I was a little kid, I have always "known" that characters didn't just fall off the page after the book is over.  I have always had the feeling that they didn't just "end."  Chalk it up to a human reluctance to let go, but I can't help it, I've always felt very strongly towards fictional people. 

Perhaps I once was/am/will be one.  :heart:

Quote:
Two questions:
1. Are you happy with your real life?
2. Is there anything going on in your real world (emotionally, spiritually, physically, or with relationships) that you might want to try and hide from or get away from?


1. I have a wonderful husband, in-laws who pay for practically everything (duplex, car, etc), two lovely kitties and a pretty cool dog and I'm just getting started on my grooming career...so life is pretty good, I'd say.  I've noticed it keeps on getting better and better.  And my book gets longer and longer.  :smile: I know the impression is that I'm just some weird, disturbed chick who sits around fantasizing all the time.  Okay, that's not altogether untrue, but I have put a lot of effort into my "real life" and I'm proud of what I've accomplished so far. 

So yeah, I think I'm as happy as I could be right this very instant.  If I could spend all of my time writing, I'd be even happier.  But working keeps me socialized and well-fed. 

2. I'm not sure how to answer this one.  I GUESS there might be things I want to try and hide from...like life itself.  :wink:  I've never had a real strong 'will to live,' my body has always felt disposable to me. 

All this breast talk has worn me down.  Goodnight.

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5272007 -

Hmmm

You shouldn't mutilate yourself. that is just plain nutty. You don't want to be a wackjob, do you? Cuz if you "get your breasts removed", you will basically be "completely insane"


Don't do it

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Boom]
    #5272020 -

"I was going to keep them in jars for my husband's sake."

I'm curious but did you get that from the same story I read? About a guy whose boyfriend umm altered him.


--------------------
Give your money or your life
Take 'em both for all I care
Dump your bullets right here

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5272154 -

EllemyshShade said:
Quote:
How do you think you can reincarnate into a character in a book you wrote? How does this character exist?


Are you sure I should explain it?  It's kind of a long story, but I'll try to make it short...basically, when I understood that GOD is love and is everything seen and UNSEEN that I truly understood the awesome creative power that is GOD.  And then I started to understand my role in things, which I've been trying to grasp my entire life, and then over time and especially after reading Conversations with God and I realized that GOD is speaking to me all the time, through messages embedded in ordinary reality that I only have to be aware of to recieve. 

So if GOD is everything seen and unseen, pure CONSCIOUSNESS, then that means GOD is imagination too.  In fact, imagination is a great tool of GOD and happens to be the fuel of my being.  I cannot live without it, cannot.  It may seem silly, but when I do not have a story going, I am miserable and unhappy, like I "have no purpose," like I am adrift in life.  All my life I've known there was a book for me to write.  So finally...I started writing it a few years ago. 

As for how I can reincarnate into it...well, GOD being everything has a lot to do with that.  Since I am GOD too (we all are) I see no reason why I can't simply reincarnate into my book, created by imagination, part of GOD. 

And my character is just as "real" as I am, in "his" (for the sake of simplicity) reality.  He is just another facet of GOD, playing a different game. 

The game I'd like to play next (or have already played or am playing since all time happens at once), which is why I'm writing about it.  I intend on having fun with GOD, now that I know I can. 

So that's my reasoning. 

Ever since I was a little kid, I have always "known" that characters didn't just fall off the page after the book is over.  I have always had the feeling that they didn't just "end."  Chalk it up to a human reluctance to let go, but I can't help it, I've always felt very strongly towards fictional people. 

Perhaps I once was/am/will be one.  :heart:

-------

2. I'm not sure how to answer this one.  I GUESS there might be things I want to try and hide from...like life itself.  :wink:  I've never had a real strong 'will to live,' my body has always felt disposable to me. 



maybe its jsut me but this doesnt sound good at all. you idolize your fantasy world too much. we all have our fantasy world, but we all have to know the limits of fanstasy and reality, and know that they cannot cross over. you seem to be letting them cross over (especially when you talk about GOD). i highly recomend you see a therapist incase there is something. you might be hiding a deep problem from yourself. maybe its many problems. maybe instead of tacling any problems which come your way, you run away in fear, or walk away in laziness, and let them boil inside you to the point where you no longer find any joy in your real life and thus spend your life in a fantasy world. you cant run away, you need to face them head on. listen to the people here on the board, many have suggested therapy.


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5272203 -

Elle, it sounds like you should be focusing on your spirituality right now.

You've got a lot of strong beleifs that you've spoken about, but I don't sense much confidence in your words. Perhaps this attitude is something you've newly discovered? If that is the case, then drastic option is not a good idea right now. When a person is dealing with understanding their spirituality they may be prone to have less-than-wise ideas. Foolish or rash ideas which arise from enthusiasm but may merely have no possible good end.

The way you speak kind of reminds me of how a lot of people sound when they've just learned something or had a revelation and it's given them enthusiasm, but they lack direction in what to do with it.

In a nutshell, don't do anything sudden right now. It might wind up being foolish. Procrastination is probably a very good idea as far as it applies to your impulses in this area.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5272279 -

You're an adult and you can do whatever you want.

BUT....this is crazy-talk. Don't mutilate your body like that. You're a woman. Your husband may be supportive, but I can guarantee you that he DOES NOT want you to do this. He married a woman and he probably wants you to stay that way.

Wait a while and see if your attitude changes.

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5273492 -

Elle, we are all from day one on a quest to simply be who we are and continue to become one with our own nature. Don't ask me why it's so damn hard! I guess God just wanted to make life an interesting challenge.

I find your particular manifestation of this fundamental riddle of life fascinating, poetic and vexing. I don't have any advice on what you should or shouldn't do... listen to "society", or follow this desire you have to change your body? Go into yourself? Go outside of yourself? I can't tell you. I can only advise you to keep close to the positive and wish you the best of luck. And ask you to keep us posted, if you're willing, as this unfolds.

a quote springs to mind, that I think can be interpreted as both an argument for this surgery and against it...
"things which are alike in nature tend to grow to look like one another"


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5273500 -

One more thing...don't rush into having kids if you don't really want any!!!!!!


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5274588 -

This is probably the worse idea I've ever heard in my whole entire life.

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5274608 -

There are people who are trying to get doctors to amputee one of their legs etc since they don't feel that it "fits" on their body. And yes those people suffer from a mental disorder and chances are so do you.

They rationalized it much the same way you do. You don't need a surgeon, you need a psychiatrist.


--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: spud]
    #5275354 -

Here is going to be my final response on the matter.

spud said:
This is probably the worse idea I've ever heard in my whole entire life.


Okay, now that I'm "out of the cloud" and going back and reading all my posts over the past few days, I can understand why everyone's reaction was so adamently opposed to the surgury.  Despite the fact that I've embarressed myself, I am SOO happy I got feedback on all of this. 

The thought that came into my head as I was re-reading, was: "What were you thinking?"  I got a sick feeling too.  I still feel sick that I wrote all this.  It doesn't seem like "I" wrote it. 

Honestly...I don't know.  I was trying to make it seem like I had spiritual motivations (because that would justify it  :rolleyes: ) but I think my motives were actually 100% self-destructive.  Sometimes I slip into a not-so-happy state of mind where great acts of destruction seem almost NOBLE to me, and I feel very compelled towards them.  In states like these I fantasize about disfiguring my body and it seems necessary.  If I could stop this impulse I would in a second, it just seems woven into me, unfortunately.  :frown:  It seems "logical."  In this case...yeah, I guess it was a little weird to want to make myself look like a character. 

In fact, I got the message it would be wrong to do so.  I'd be making myself look like someone else (instead of me, but of course then I wonder if someone else is who I am, but that is a whole different topic), and that isn't right.  We both have our own lives to live, and if I DO reincarnate into my story (still a valid possiblity in my mind - sorry) I'll have enough chance to be that way at the time. 

I'm sorry for being disturbing.  I was going to get therapy two months ago when I first realized things felt a bit askew, but I found out Petsmart doesn't offer therapy with the insurance I am currently under.  That was a blow to learn that, when I know that I would benefit greatly from ranting someone's ear off once or twice a week.  So I just kinda try to deal with things.  As long as I get up and go to work everyday, write a little when I come home and spend time with my husband, that's all I care about.  I've been living it day to day and things have been good.  I just had a momentary lapse in judgement when I made this thread. 

So in closing, I'm sorry for freaking everyone out.  I really am.  :frown: But I appreciate all the feedback I received about this apparently very sensitive issue.  Yeah, it was a dumb idea, but now that I've thought about it, I can say that it probably isn't an idea for me.  My breasts are here to stay.  I'd rather have breasts then a humongous scar where they used to be.  Plus I do honor, respect and cherish my husband and I do feel it would be a betrayal of him, no matter how much he says otherwise. 

So anyway, I guess that's that.  I feel the urge to keep compulsively apologizing though.  "SORRY for bothering anyone." 

Thanks again.  :heart:

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5275563 -

No offense but removing your breasts would not make you genderless. You were born a woman and you will forever be a woman. There is not one thing you can do about that.

Get rid of your breasts. You will still be a woman without breasts. You will be a woman with the chest of a man... but still a woman.

In all reality, all bullshit aside, you will NEVER be genderless. That's nature Elle, get used to it. :sun:


(edit: Didn't see your last post when I wrote this, I'm happy you have rethought your stance on this.)


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.

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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5276199 -

EllemyshShade said:
Here is going to be my final response on the matter.

spud said:
This is probably the worse idea I've ever heard in my whole entire life.


Okay, now that I'm "out of the cloud" and going back and reading all my posts over the past few days, I can understand why everyone's reaction was so adamently opposed to the surgury.  Despite the fact that I've embarressed myself, I am SOO happy I got feedback on all of this. 

The thought that came into my head as I was re-reading, was: "What were you thinking?"  I got a sick feeling too.  I still feel sick that I wrote all this.  It doesn't seem like "I" wrote it. 

Honestly...I don't know.  I was trying to make it seem like I had spiritual motivations (because that would justify it  :rolleyes: ) but I think my motives were actually 100% self-destructive.  Sometimes I slip into a not-so-happy state of mind where great acts of destruction seem almost NOBLE to me, and I feel very compelled towards them.  In states like these I fantasize about disfiguring my body and it seems necessary.  If I could stop this impulse I would in a second, it just seems woven into me, unfortunately.  :frown:  It seems "logical."  In this case...yeah, I guess it was a little weird to want to make myself look like a character. 

In fact, I got the message it would be wrong to do so.  I'd be making myself look like someone else (instead of me, but of course then I wonder if someone else is who I am, but that is a whole different topic), and that isn't right.  We both have our own lives to live, and if I DO reincarnate into my story (still a valid possiblity in my mind - sorry) I'll have enough chance to be that way at the time. 

I'm sorry for being disturbing.  I was going to get therapy two months ago when I first realized things felt a bit askew, but I found out Petsmart doesn't offer therapy with the insurance I am currently under.  That was a blow to learn that, when I know that I would benefit greatly from ranting someone's ear off once or twice a week.  So I just kinda try to deal with things.  As long as I get up and go to work everyday, write a little when I come home and spend time with my husband, that's all I care about.  I've been living it day to day and things have been good.  I just had a momentary lapse in judgement when I made this thread. 

So in closing, I'm sorry for freaking everyone out.  I really am.  :frown: But I appreciate all the feedback I received about this apparently very sensitive issue.  Yeah, it was a dumb idea, but now that I've thought about it, I can say that it probably isn't an idea for me.  My breasts are here to stay.  I'd rather have breasts then a humongous scar where they used to be.  Plus I do honor, respect and cherish my husband and I do feel it would be a betrayal of him, no matter how much he says otherwise. 

So anyway, I guess that's that.  I feel the urge to keep compulsively apologizing though.  "SORRY for bothering anyone." 

Thanks again.  :heart:


Good to know that 1. you reconsidered this and 2. you're aware of why you wanted to.

Sorry to hear that you're not insured for use of a therapist, but you might want to see if you can fit it into your budget anyways. What you describe of your symptoms makes it sound like it's worth the cost, depending on the charge of the therapist in question.

And feel free to chat with us shroomerites about it in the meantime. Plenty of us would be happy to be a listener when you want to talk about things.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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