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InvisibleMOTH
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Registered: 06/06/03
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Loc: In the jungle
Removing my breasts
    #5266617 - 02/05/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It's not that I want to be a guy. It's that I want to be neither. I have been considering surgury in the future to get my boobs removed from my body. I'm not worried about my husband's reaction. That's not an issue as we've already spoken about it.

This is about me feeling more comfortable in my own skin. This is about manifesting my 'idea' of mySelf into physical reality. I figure it's my life so I should do whatever I feel like doing while I have the time to do it.

I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.

My question is: Are there any "girls" here who have elected to remove their breasts in order to achieve balance in their life? How has not having breasts changed your life, for better or worse?


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
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Registered: 08/06/03
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Loc: British Columbia
Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266660 - 02/05/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Don't do it Ellemy. Mother Nature gave you your body. Why would you want to destroy it?

Quote:

I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.




Why? What would be the advantage to doing that?


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Offlinecookeman
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5266670 - 02/05/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
Don't do it Ellemy. Mother Nature gave you your body. Why would you want to destroy it?

Quote:

I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.




Why? What would be the advantage to doing that?




The only thing I can think of is not being stereotyped because of being a women.  :confused:


--------------------
“Let’s put it this way – to lump psychedelic mushrooms into the same group as methamphetamine is like lumping the Bible into the same group as Mein Kampf.
I mean shit; they’re both books, right?”

Joe Rogan


R.I.P. - "Bones" - One of the greatest people I've ever had the pleasure of getting to know and become friends with.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Posts: 23,431
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5266705 - 02/05/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
Don't do it Ellemy. Mother Nature gave you your body. Why would you want to destroy it?

Quote:

I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.




Why? What would be the advantage to doing that?




WEll, I do not consider breast removal "destroying my body." More like molding my body to fit my internal image of mySelf. I've been thinking about this recently. I don't feel it's that different then going on a diet to shed a hundred pounds. In both cases you are choosing actions and behaviors which will mold your body to appear more like you desire it to appear. In my case, I will be molding myself to be less female, and hopefully more neutral.

I can see many advantages to removing my breasts. For one thing, in societies mind, I am canceling out the most obvious thing that makes me female. It sickens me to think of how people fixate on breasts, like they're something so special, like the breast is what makes a woman.

Well guess what. I don't want to play that game anymore. That's honestly how I feel. I "quit" being a female, since it's obvious I will never measure up to the standards we impose on one another with gender.

I no longer want any part of the gender game. I elect to be neither. I feel there is nothing wrong with this. In fact, I crave this.

Another advantage is internal balance. Inside, where the sun don't shine, where I hide mySelf, is where I have an idea of me and as long as I am female I am denying the truth of who I really am.

The point is, I have never felt "right" being female. And now I am discovering I can do something about it.


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266714 - 02/05/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
It's not that I want to be a guy.  It's that I want to be neither.  I have been considering surgury in the future to get my boobs removed from my body.  I'm not worried about my husband's reaction.  That's not an issue as we've already spoken about it. 

This is about me feeling more comfortable in my own skin.  This is about manifesting my 'idea' of mySelf into physical reality.  I figure it's my life so I should do whatever I feel like doing while I have the time to do it. 

I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself.  I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl.  I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender.  I choose to remain in-between. 

My question is:  Are there any "girls" here who have elected to remove their breasts in order to achieve balance in their life?  How has not having breasts changed your life, for better or worse?




You will never escape your sex, it's in your chromosomes, mrs. xx.  It looks like you've made some important realizations regarding gender though, in that it's ambiguos and for that I applaud you.   

Your brain is in physical reality, no?  Manifesting your thoughts into feelings of being comfortable in your own skin seems much more practical than lobbing off your breasts, not to mention a hell of a lot more rational.

Developing a personality that goes beyond gender is what you should be working on.  You're showing a lot of attachment to how people perceive you.  Live for yourself, not for others. Why does it matter if someone sees you as a woman?  Are you tired of the suffering others cause you when they treat you differntly because of your sex? 




  Perhaps your identity as a woman is what you need to work on. Maybe it's time you start fully exploring what it means to be a woman. 



p.s

your breasts aren't the only way to identify your sex, reconstructing your hip strcture is going to be quite expensive :tongue2:


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Cherk]
    #5266724 - 02/05/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Well, that was a good post.  :tongue2:

Quote:

Smoker For Peace said:
You're showing a lot of attachment to how people perceive you.  Live for yourself, not for others. 




Exactly.  :smile:  Everyone doesn't want me to remove my breasts.  If I didn't go through with it, wouldn't I be listening to you guys, instead of mySelf?

There is a picture in my minds eye.  It's me, but I'm different then that picture.  I want to conform to the picture that I have created of myself, for myself. 

Thanks for the reply.  :heart:


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266728 - 02/05/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:

WEll, I do not consider breast removal "destroying my body." More like molding my body to fit my internal image of mySelf. I've been thinking about this recently. I don't feel it's that different then going on a diet to shed a hundred pounds. In both cases you are choosing actions and behaviors which will mold your body to appear more like you desire it to appear. In my case, I will be molding myself to be less female, and hopefully more neutral.

I can see many advantages to removing my breasts. For one thing, in societies mind, I am canceling out the most obvious thing that makes me female. It sickens me to think of how people fixate on breasts, like they're something so special, like the breast is what makes a woman.




Breasts are beautiful. Breast milk is what boosts a newborns immune system and sustains their life. To me it looks like you're more "sickended" at the pervading standard of what healthy sexuality is in American pop-culture.


Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
Well guess what. I don't want to play that game anymore. That's honestly how I feel. I "quit" being a female, since it's obvious I will never measure up to the standards we impose on one another with gender.





Then quit playing the game yourself. You cannot control how other people think, it aint gonna happen friend. You're showing a lot of refusal to let go and accept what is.

Also, please speak for yourself, I do not impose any standards on people based upon their gender.
Quote:

EllemyshShade said:

I no longer want any part of the gender game. I elect to be neither. I feel there is nothing wrong with this. In fact, I crave this.

Another advantage is internal balance. Inside, where the sun don't shine, where I hide mySelf, is where I have an idea of me and as long as I am female I am denying the truth of who I really am.

The point is, I have never felt "right" being female. And now I am discovering I can do something about it.





I suggest you do some reading into transgender issues, you'll find a lot of pertinent information there.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Cherk]
    #5266739 - 02/05/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks, I found 'Lessons from the Intersexed' to be very illuminating...good book. Also I've made some transgender friends here and there. They are being very candid with me.


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OfflineMoxemerald
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266740 - 02/05/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

All I can say is wow, someone is a little too far down the rabbit hole. Why change things? Things are perfect the way they are. Theres nothing that I can really argue because I know the defense you will have, but all I can say is that you better know what you're doing because you might regret it bigtime.


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266746 - 02/05/06 04:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
Well, that was a good post.  :tongue2:

Quote:

Smoker For Peace said:
You're showing a lot of attachment to how people perceive you.  Live for yourself, not for others. 




Exactly.  :smile:  Everyone doesn't want me to remove my breasts.  If I didn't go through with it, wouldn't I be listening to you guys, instead of mySelf?

There is a picture in my minds eye.  It's me, but I'm different then that picture.  I want to conform to the picture that I have created of myself, for myself. 

Thanks for the reply.  :heart:




Realize that this version of "yourself" you claim to be listening to has been influenced by society and culture since the day you were born.  Then you'll see that the search for ones self's true identity isn't about changing yourself to create  this ideal self that you've created out of defense mechanisms.  It's about re-discovering your real self, which is eternal and never-changing.  This path is about healing.  The warriors path  :cool:

p.s

If you aren't down with the be here now philisophy, then please disregard everything I've just said  :tongue2:

p.s.s

I've been through some struggles with gender issues myself, PM me sometime if you wanna shoot the shit about it.


edit, I'd also like to add that I find your willigness to give up all standards of 'normal' to be praiseworthy :heart:


Edited by Smoker For Peace (02/05/06 04:24 PM)


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Offlinemushiemountain
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Moxemerald]
    #5266755 - 02/05/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

boobs are fuckin awsome.


--------------------
I Ain't No Fool. Mama Didn't Raise No Fool.
----------primussucks


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Moxemerald]
    #5266764 - 02/05/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I appreciate all feedback, and yah, I'm going to try and not make any regretable decisions.

I just got a response from a friend from another message board who is trans. I had asked hir (her? him?) a few questions. Here was the reply:

Quote:

1) What's it like to not have breasts?

It fucking rocks! seriously I absoluetly LOVE my chest! I like to touch it,looks at it, even just know my breasts are gone forever. Nothing to get in the way, no awkward lumps of flesh.

2) How long did the surgery take and how long was recovery?

The surgery itself was a few hours, I'm not sure exactly how long since I was under anesthesia and then totally out of it on pain meds. As for recovery it probably took about a month to get pretty much back to normal and a few months before there wasn't any tightness when I reached straight up. But recovery time really varies from person to person. Also, though you didn't ask, the pain wasn't all that bad after the second day (which was hell) but after that it really wasn't bad. I had drains, whcih where annoying and a little painful, but not a big deal.

What's it like to be seen as neither male or female?

Well, it's hard to get people to see you that way in the first place, but once they do it's an incredible feeling of freedom! I don't have to pretend to be something I'm not anymore, I can just be myself.

How does this affect your relationship with others?

On general it hasn't had much of an effect. Most of the people I hang out with just see me as a person, and the fact that I'm genderless doesn't matter to them. Unfortunately there are exceptions, for instance today I go told I was scary by someone I was chatting with on MSN. In the dating realm it's a little different. *sigh* lol I think it does get in the way a little, but I'm cofindent it won't be a huge problem.

Do people still try to polarize you into one or the other?

Some people do, mostly people I haven't fully come out to as genderqueer just trans, so they think I identify as male. But again most people I hang out with don't seem to have a problem with it. They do use male pronouns, but then I haven't asked them not to, it's seems like it wouldbe confusing for them to try and use genderqueer pronouns. Society in general definetlky tries to polarize everybody! Gender binary bathrooms, asking for gender on forms, stuff like that.

Is there a special pronoun used for people who are neither male or female?

Yes, two actually, and a few variations. Instead of he or she you can use xe (pronounced zee) and instead of him or her you can use hir (pronounced here). And there are several variations on those.

I know exactly how you feel about wanting to cut off your breasts, I had so many fantasies of doing that before I finally got top surgery. Actually I identify greatly with pretty much ALL of the things you said! You are definetly not alone in those feelings. I also went back and forth on whether I was gay or not, now I identify as "pansexual" which basically means, just like you said, that gender doesn't matter when selecting a mate. And I had to deal with people overlooking my trans issues and just trying to get me in control as I am also bipolar on top of everything else and everyone thought it was just another weird symptom. And you're right, although your husband matters, this is something you need to decide for yourself. There where a of people around me who didn't want me to go as far in trasistion as I have, but it was something I needed to do inorder to survive my own life.

If you have anymore questions, or just want to chat, please feel free, I'm happy to do anything I can to help. I know how hard this can be.





I don't know. I'm so used to doing permanant things to my body that the thought of having no breasts for the rest of my life doesn't faze me that much. I will still be my Self. That's all that matters, that I'm true to my Self.

No, I don't have to get surgury to be closer to my Self. But I guess my train of thought is, "Why not?"


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Cherk]
    #5266793 - 02/05/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Smoker For Peace said:

Realize that this version of "yourself" you claim to be listening to has been influenced by society and culture since the day you were born.  Then you'll see that the search for ones self's true identity isn't about changing yourself to create  this ideal self that you've created out of defense mechanisms.  It's about re-discovering your real self, which is eternal and never-changing.  This path is about healing.  The warriors path  :cool:

p.s

If you aren't down with the be here now philisophy, then please disregard everything I've just said  :tongue2:




I'm all over 'Be Here Now.'  :smile:  It's the book where you can open any page and learn something valuable and applicable about existence. 

I wish I could crack open my head and let you see where I'm coming from.  Chances are I'd just bleed everywhere, though. 
:tongue2: The Self I am listening to is the Self which I rediscovered some time ago.  It's when I learned that all of existence spins forth from me (us) and that I (we) could create anything I (we) want out of the material I've (we've) been given. 

So you see, I see nothing serious about altering my body this way.  It is just another example of me taking hold of the reins of my own reality.  Because there are infinite realities for me to explore and experience, I shouldn't fear doing anything on my behalf during this one. 

If this reality is mine to create, then why not create it the way I choose?  That is how I am seeing things now.

Anyway, I'm not going to rush out and get my breasts removed tomorrow.  I don't have the money.  :smile:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266852 - 02/05/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Changing your body is NOT going to bring you balance. That has to come from within. Plus, I imagine Kevin won't be too thrilled without those babies to hang on to.


--------------------


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Silversoul]
    #5266879 - 02/05/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I know.  :frown:  That's something I have to consider.  He says he just wants me to be happy, but I know when he married me, he married a woman.  He expected a certain few things when we tied the knot.  Maybe it wouldn't be fair of me to get all freaky on him without breasts now.  :tongue:

I am having a hard time understanding what's so wrong with wanting my mind and body to match, though.


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266883 - 02/05/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

If you don't like people seeing you as a woman then I think you're gonna be in for a surprise if you got this surgery done.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but people will probably see you as a freak and being fucked in the head. It's just how society is. And I don't think changing your physical appearance would be worth all the other stuff that would change.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266914 - 02/05/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

if you dont want people to see you have breasts, you dont have to cut them off, just wear those really tight bands that some girls wear. and yes, it would be an extreme betrayal to your husband, in my opinion. youre inner image will always be different than how you look physically. but if you want to be above that, you dont have to remove certain aspects of your physical appearance, jsut how you portray and react to them.
above you said that "I will still be my Self. That's all that matters, that I'm true to my Self.
No, I don't have to get surgury to be closer to my Self. But I guess my train of thought is, "Why not?""

surgery is expensive, an unbelievable hassle, and leaving you with some scars.

have you planned on having kids? how do you breast feed? (btw, kids who are not breast fed, who getthat milk in a bottle shit, tend to have twice the chance to become allergic to stuff along with a few other minor yet annoying problems).
and what would it be like to have a mom who doesnt have boobs? not because she has small boobs too small to see, but because she actually cut them off!

this is a major step, and you dont seem to realize it. this could change the way everyone sees you. your friends, your family, and even your husband.


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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OfflineCherk
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266916 - 02/05/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Do you also plan on sewing your vagina up? Why or why not?


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Cherk]
    #5266919 - 02/05/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I won't even tell you what I had in mind for THAT.  :evil:


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266934 - 02/05/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You wouldn't miss sexual pleasure?


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


Edited by Smoker For Peace (02/05/06 05:48 PM)


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InvisibleMOTH
Wild Woman
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Cherk]
    #5266942 - 02/05/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I have unusual sex fetishes that cause me mucho obsession and grief (i.e. cannot get aroused unless the fetishes are involved).

I'd like to get rid of them, so if I never had sex again, I think I could cope. I doubt hubby could though.


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Invisibleomglolwtf
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Posts: 19
Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266945 - 02/05/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

describe said fetishes.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: omglolwtf]
    #5266952 - 02/05/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I would, except this thread isn't about fetishes.  And mine should be kept private, at any rate.  :sun:


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Invisibleomglolwtf
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5266958 - 02/05/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

PM me if you want to share. I'm a freak myself...


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: omglolwtf]
    #5266997 - 02/05/06 06:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Wow Ellemy. If you really beleive that you aren't anything, then you should accept that you're an animal and realize that you were born a certain way. Do you ever see a rabbit saying 'hey I don't like my fluffy tail time to bite it off'. It makes 0 sense. You really can't justify it.

Just be who you are.

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
I am having a hard time understanding what's so wrong with wanting my mind and body to match, though.



They already do. Your gender is just a detail. It's not what you are.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5267031 - 02/05/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You can get rid of the attachment you have for these fetishes. The path is about a return of innocence. This is the most difficult, slow moving process of the path in my limited experience.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5267168 - 02/05/06 07:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater...?


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InvisibleDmonikal
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5267419 - 02/05/06 08:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You are just asking for some VERY disturbing fetishes if you do that.
Some guys have fetishes for people who have had that procedure.
What you are looking for is removal of the organs that cause the desire (forget what the word is for that procedure). Before you even consider these procedures I would try one of those chemical impotence drugs. Never heard a girl ever consider this before. I understand your problem I have seen THAT feeling more then a few times. Removing the parts that make you a woman is not going to help you feel better. Have you tried just totally ignoring your fetishes? With time and willpower they may fade. It is just an impulse, it does not control you. I know that you feel that these fetishes dehumanize you. I think that they are caused by something in your past. You are looking to give up sexual pleasure why not try giving up sex? It is not sex that is the problem, it is how you feel about sex. Perhaps you have not considered the impact that that is going to have on your emotions. It will be like going through menopause and I don't hear too many women praising the experience. The way you act and the way you think will change drastically. It might be very, very unpleasant. Is it that you do not think yourself human that you want to mark yourself this way?


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Give your money or your life
Take 'em both for all I care
Dump your bullets right here


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5267630 - 02/05/06 09:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Dont be uncomfortable in your own skin. Whats the logic in changing yourself to be yourself?


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5268075 - 02/05/06 11:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I hate to be so scathing, but between the way you and everyone else of your gender are born, and the idea you've spontaneously come up with in your head, which has more credibility as the right way to go?

And really, what is the benefit of removing your breasts? What good can come of that, honestly?

The best thing that might happen is that men wouldn't ogle you, but it would be because they find you much less attractive.

What good can come of this? Honestly, I can think of nothing useful... nothing at all :shrug:

Mammaries have their rightful place in nature, and I was under the impression that you respected nature. Why do something so drastic because you've assumed that nature was wrong and that you, a mere human, were right?


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Konnrade]
    #5268161 - 02/06/06 12:16 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

But I am part of nature.  I guess that means I can never be wrong.  :cool:

My husband and I had a talk about this topic tonight.  I brought it up again, and he got upset, but not about what I expected.  He said, "Do you have any idea how much that would cost?!" and expressed that there are better things we as a couple could spend our money on.  I asked if he would divorce me if I got rid of my breasts and he said no, just as he wouldn't if I lost both my arms.  So that was reassuring. 

As for what useful thing could come out of this...I wouldn't have breasts, for one. (or two, depending) I wouldn't feel as shameful of my body.  I wouldn't feel weird looking at myself naked in the mirror.  And other reasons which are probably too senseless to warrant an explanation. 

I just don't like them.


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OfflineStandsAlone
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5268191 - 02/06/06 12:26 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

MY GOD WOMAN!!!! Are you out of your mind!? your body is just a vessel, the image you should change is yourself, your soul.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5268355 - 02/06/06 01:31 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Perhaps this is just a personal crisis that you need to learn to cope with?

Sure, it seems like the solution is to cut the breasts off (well, to you it does), but I bet the more reasonable solution is to learn to appreciate them as a part of your body. I'm not always too fond of my pinky toes, they tend to get in the way sometimes, but I don't think I would want them removed. In all honesty that would just show that I was too lazy/foolish/stubborn/etc to learn to appreciate them, as might be the case with your boobs.

And your husband is right, surgery to have your breasts removed would cost a very large amount of money, and it would be an utter frivolatry to be spending it on. Unless you're very blessed with a significant income you'll be squandering that money that could probably be far more useful to both of you if you spent it elsewhere.

Significant surgeries should not just be suddenly decided upon, especially if it's not a surgery for something necessary. Not only are they expensive but they require you to spend time preparing for them and recovering from them, they weaken your body as it heals, and... they're expensive!  :frown:

I can't stand to think that you might do this and then somewhere down the road realize it was a mistake. Because by then you can't get your boobs back, and you certainly couldn't get a refund.

If I may ask, how are your retirement savings? Think: would you be better off if, rather than giving that money to surgeons, you instead saved that money for your future... or for something practical?

From the sounds of things what you propose would be similar to me going out and buying a $30,000 DeLorean while I was still in college. Sure, on the surface I know that I would enjoy having done it very much, and would feel great satisfaction from it but down the road I'd wind up suffering greatly as a result and would think it was a mistake.

I mean no offense in any of the above statements, by the way... I'm just concerned  :crazy:


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Konnrade]
    #5268386 - 02/06/06 02:05 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I agree 100% with Konnrade.

Ellemy, this is a bad idea. You know I respect you, but I highly suggest not doing this.


--------------------

funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: lukeboots]
    #5268446 - 02/06/06 03:23 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

you deserve to feel comfortable in your own skin, so the real question is if this  is something you've truly longed for, rather than an impulsive flight of fancy.  body modifications have existed in all cultures and all periods of time with ranged reactions from taboo ostricism to tribal soliditary, i could totally see removing your breasts as a very personal affirmation/rebirth in fully coming into yourself and may very well be a part of a greater cosmic lineage/tradition - i mean, it may be informative to study up on what kind of anthropological significance it holds.
even when getting a tattoo, it's wise to be ready to study up on the tattoo artist and be ready to shell out real $$$ for the service, if you were sincere about what you want and not impulsive about it, i'd really hope you found a respected surgeon w/ a well cataloged portfolio.  often in this world you get what you pay for.... i felt that was worth mentioning....
as for sexuality, your fetishes are intimately yours and deserve to be fully expressed.  masking your true sexual profile and pretending to be normal just isn't worth it. contrary to popular opinion, this world sexuality is very, very diverse and though it may not seem like it there's undoubtably hiding in the woodworks a sizable audience/and or community that would find you and your whole package, fetishes and breasts-or-not and all, sexually appetizing.  i know you're married, so that creates its own karma and duty and what not.  then again, there's a whole world of marital arrangements that go beyond traditional ideas of monogamous relationships.  everybody has to find out what works for them.  it requires a lot of honesty and open communication with yourself and your partner.

always remember, there's a whole world of people out there who will love and support you for who you want to be

including me :smile:

blessings,

CJ


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5268453 - 02/06/06 03:26 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

my last post was intended to be directed to you, Ellemysh.  :smile:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Offlinethepoetryman
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #5268498 - 02/06/06 04:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I tend to agree with cosmicjoke on this one. This is your life, your body and ultimately your decision. You need to be comfortable in your own skin. Most of the other posters here tend to be "straight" men, that just can't fathom a woman cutting off her breasts. Fuck what she is feeling. Who are you to judge what this woman is to do?


--------------------
will have to think about this one.......................still thinking about his


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: thepoetryman]
    #5268512 - 02/06/06 04:31 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

hey buddy boy, welcome to the boards. though i've met a handful of shroomerites, you'd be the first person i've ever turned onto the boards. most people i've directed to this neck of the woods think i'm f'n nuts, lol. this will be interesting.

big bear hugz

CJ


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineVeter
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #5268576 - 02/06/06 06:00 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hmm, this kind of goes against all of my philosophies. I feel that people need to accept that they are in a society. You should not necessarily confrom, but make yourself of some use to your species. We have the unique abilities as humans to be 'futants'. Meaning we can consciously dedicate our lives to furthering our own evolution. We have sexes for a reason and although much of society is ridiculous about the idea of sex, there are enough intelligent minds out there that are not, and they are worth living normally for.

Another consideration might be to just get a breast reduction. If you don't like the idea of people looking at your breasts as being something special, make them less appealing. Don't get rid of them. Being considered a freak is much worse than being considered female (I, know, barely, but still). To deny your sex is somewhat a slap in the face to mother nature, and a complete disregard of society.

Your other options are to conform your personality to your true self. Dont act feminine or male, just act what you are. Be intelligent and be prominent.
There are plenty of otherways to lose the biases due to your sex, and none of them involve changing your appearance.

Just my two cents. Ive never heard of a woman wanting to be transgender...so, I apologize if I'm coming off as narrow-minded.


--------------------
Let the Demons have their place, if so, it's angels you'll create.


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5268578 - 02/06/06 06:01 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Do you have really big boobs?

They do have breast reduction surgery that I hear is pretty routine and safe.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5268611 - 02/06/06 06:35 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

now, this is just an assumption/possibility, or actually just a thought (and I'm afraid of getting shot down for even suggesting this) but,

is there anything, deep down inside you that has been bothering you? maybe some deep childhood experiences? when you were a child was there something about how people perceived you or your friends or family by how they looked? and it possibly might have scarred you?

in the past you have made comments about how angry it makes you when images are imposed on individuals by society, especially the sexual images.

i have the feeling that there is something this is related to, probably from childhood. i think you need to look deep inside yourself and be honest with yourself. look at how you view the world, and the things about the world which might scare you.

please don't get angry or anything, but be honest with us! or at least be honest with yourself.

BTW, a good exercise you might want to try is to sit down somewhere quiet and peaceful, and write or type all the things about the world and society you don't like. all the things you disagree with. and all the things that make you angry. write as much as you can, take all the time you need and all the time you want.
then look over it, read everything you wrote.
what does it say?


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: eligal]
    #5268689 - 02/06/06 07:42 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I'm going to draw upon what eligal has said and state that what is generally a good idea before deciding on a course of action like this is to possibly consult a therapist, just to make sure that your desire to do such a thing isn't merely a response to a subconscious problem that is bothering your psyche. Because if that were the case, then once you were to overcome such a problem you'd probably regret the loss of your breasts and they would serve only as both a physical and emotional scar left over from the problem.

Assuming that there isn't an emotional problem... perhaps it is wise to consult an elder, someone you respect for their wisdom, and whom you trust. Ask them what they think about the whole thing. They'll probably give you some useful feedback. Perhaps, given said feedback, you may have a change of heart.

Whatever you do, don't rush into this... you can't get your boobs back once it's been done. The closest available option then would be bags of saline.

Coming from a man, I'll warn you that a flat chest looks horrible on any human no matter what gender. A woman whose breasts have been removed will look equally as ugly as a man with no pectoral muscle mass (which I assume is what you would resemble after a total removal of your breasts, except you would also have a scar there too).


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5268781 - 02/06/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

would you still go, on the ladies room?
WC?

:smile:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5268881 - 02/06/06 09:37 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hi Ellemysh.

I don't think ANY form of unnecessary surgery is a good idea, period.

This statement has nothing to do with what I think of you or your ideas. It has to do with common sense.

Common sense and my life experience tell ME that our bodies are too fragile to fuck with. I will never let anyone cut me with a surgical knife without a rationally sound reason that I can logically understand or deduce. (is that a word?)

There are PLENTY of possible bad outcomes to just about ANY surgery.

--

I see you're really on a roll with this idea... and I think that's all the more reason you REALLY need to stop and check yourself again.

The more enthusiastic we are about a concept, the less likely we are to HONESTLY rethink it.

I have no reason to WANT to persuade you any which way besides towards what will serve you and your well-being. This isn't about "what I think of you"... there's a big difference between someone forming an opinion of you and people reaching out their arms to try and help you understand that what you're suggesting may not be in YOUR best interest.

We love you just the way you are... why can't you? :confused:

If you've truly realized your "true self" to be our collective consciousness, don't you also see that the collective consciousness, completely void of thought, does not harbor any opinion at all of how you are "supposed to be"?

I think you're slipping back into an ego trap... the "you" that wants this is still your ego. You seem to think it is the eternal consciousness that you've identified with in the past, but I don't think it is.

Please, just consider what I've said...  :heart:


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OfflineShdwstr
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5268896 - 02/06/06 09:52 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl.
For one thing, in societies mind, I am canceling out the most obvious thing that makes me female. It sickens me to think of how people fixate on breasts, like they're something so special, like the breast is what makes a woman.
I don't want to play that game anymore. I "quit" being a female, since it's obvious I will never measure up to the standards we impose on one another with gender.





Sounds like your letting the opinions of society infuence your desision more than you might think. You might want to try to seperate what everyone else percieves and thinks from your own inner feelings before making such a life changing desision, and believe me... every aspect of your life will change. That kind of seperation is not an easy task.
We are who we are... surgery may change your appearance of gender, but you are still You!
No surgery can change that.

Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck!


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5268945 - 02/06/06 10:24 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I'll save you about ten paragraphs and just say:

You know you should not do that shit, that is just fucking nuts, and I'm quite sure you would regret it if you do..

No mutilation!

You are! :gd_icon:

(Or: Even society is right about a few things. One of them is that breasts are great!!! :smile:)

Keep yours!  :heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
:orly:



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InvisibleDmonikal
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5268985 - 02/06/06 10:50 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Listen to the song "The fragile". May it give you strength.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Dmonikal]
    #5269797 - 02/06/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I often times find myself wishing that I were a woman and that I had my foreskin.

So I can kind of relate with feeling that your body isn't right with who you really are. I feel extremely incomplete being circumcised and it can get me feeling really down and almost "raped" sometimes....

For me though I have a rampant and burning desire for sexual fulfillment..... and I feel like women have the better end all things considered, the way they function, the sensitivity they have, and the complete antithesis of sensitivity I have from being cut.

So yeah.... that's about all I can really say.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #5270258 - 02/06/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hey Jacques :heart:

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:

I think you're slipping back into an ego trap... the "you" that wants this is still your ego. You seem to think it is the eternal consciousness that you've identified with in the past, but I don't think it is.

Please, just consider what I've said...  :heart:




It might be my ego talking.  It's just that...okay, recently (within the past six-eight months) I've had a realization.  I was going to keep it private but many people seem to think I am doing this for other people, so I'm trying to help you understand my motivations.  Well...part of my realization is that I'd be reborn as anything or anyone of my choosing, anything I want to experience.  So you see, I'm writing this book of mine so that I can reincarnate into it, I think that's important.  But I've become impatient.  As crazy as this sounds, I have a desire to become one of my characters, actually, not just a desire, I AM one of them, (in a way).  And I've been wondering what makes this particular character so appealing, and I've realized it's because we're one another, so I identify with it.  IT, yes, it doesn't have a gender.  So maybe you can see where this is going.  I'd like to remove my breasts so that I can be more like this particular character in my head...THAT is the image of Self I was talking about, but maybe it is more of an aspect of Self, not the Self itself if there is ego involved...and there could be.  This particular character isn't the most humble. 

I don't know what gives me this compulsion, but I know that more and more I am seeing things about myself and reality, that are important to me.  So you see, I feel in a sense I am playing a game, and that breasts or no breasts doesn't really matter in the larger scheme of things. I feel like I should just have fun, and it's fun for me to "be" someone else (multiple someone's) in the parallel reality that I write about. 

So I've probably just made myself sound even more like a freak, but whatever, I don't care about that anymore.  All I know is that since I've been listening to my SELF (or whatever IT IS I've been communicating with) I've been a lot happier and at peace inside.  I know it sounds ABSURD to some of you to be considering this.  To a small portion of me it sounds crazy too.  But I've learned not to listen to that judgemental side anymore.  I should just do what I feel led to do. 

And that's what I'm figuring out, if in fact I'm being led to do this.  The fact that I'm even considering it makes me wonder if I've been led to this spot, right now, to make that decision.

If I do go through with it, I won't have the money for several more months anyway. 

:tongue:I'm just trying to make myself understood, not sure if it worked this time though.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: eligal]
    #5270407 - 02/06/06 05:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:
now, this is just an assumption/possibility, or actually just a thought (and I'm afraid of getting shot down for even suggesting this) but,




No one will get shot down in this thread. I really do appreciate every reply, even the unsupportive and brutally honest ones. They're valuable too, and I should hear them.

Quote:



in the past you have made comments about how angry it makes you when images are imposed on individuals by society, especially the sexual images.

i have the feeling that there is something this is related to, probably from childhood.




Thought-provoking...I can't think of anything in particular... It's just that in my parent's house growing up...women and men are given strictly defined roles, through religion. For example, I once told my dad I wanted to be a paster, and he told me I could never do that because "God doesn't choose women to lead." And I wasn't allowed to have male friends because "I was a lady."

Even as a little kid, that sounded fishy. And time and time again, as I grew up, I realized I wasn't the type of girl my parents wanted. But I also wasn't allowed to do the things my brothers did (I have 4 brothers). I also had a hard time choosing friends. I was too rowdy and messy to play with the girls and too demure and aloof to kick it with the guys.

So I've always just been "in-between" and that's how I've come to see myself, someone who is always "in-between."

I guess I'd like to make it physically apparant.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5270859 - 02/06/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You should probably talk to a psychologist first, see if you have any issues. You don't want to resolve the issues after the fact, as by then your breasts will already be gone, and it would be a shame if you cut off your breasts because of a temporary neurosis. After all, better to be cautious with an irreversible and unnecessary (physically, anyway) surgery than to jump into it and be a miserable 30 or 40 years down the line because of your rash youth.

But hell, if that's what you really want, go ahead. I'm pretty much apathetic to most things people do, but I never could get my mind around the transgender attitude.

Have you thought about what would happen if you broke up with your husband? How you would get a new mate if you have all these radical surgeries?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Ravus]
    #5271008 - 02/06/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

After all, better to be cautious with an irreversible and unnecessary (physically, anyway) surgery than to jump into it and be a miserable 30 or 40 years down the line because of your rash youth.




Thanks for the reminder...there is a chance I could just be obsessing right now, but I don't know, I've felt this way for an awfully long time. Honestly, I think I'd rather be a 90 yr old with no breasts then a 90 yr old with breasts. I suspect a lot of people would agree.

Quote:

Have you thought about what would happen if you broke up with your husband? How you would get a new mate if you have all these radical surgeries?




I highly doubt there will be another person in my life if things go that sour with my hubby. But to answer your question...I probably wouldn't be looking for one.


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271181 - 02/06/06 08:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Elle, you might find people to talk to, and relate with in the archives of the BME and could definately talk to many people who have modified their bodies in very extreme ways on their community page IAM (however, it requires a somewhat exclusive membership)

There are many people who experience extreme feelings of discontent being as they are born. Encyclopedia - Marylin manson brought the idea of Androgeny to the front lines of the media, and Genesis P.Orridge (who is transforming himself to look alike his wife) amongst others, feels that abolishment of sex is one step closer to god.

Perhaps im way out of step here, but i just wanted to let you know that i understand and have talked with alot of people who have done drastic things in order to acheive their desired body. I havent read the whole thread, but i do somewhat understand and accept what your going through - if you ever need to talk.


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.


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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271251 - 02/06/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I think you would deeply regret making this decision.

Do you ever intend on having children?  You would be unable to breastfeed, and that's a huge deal.  Also, there are the risks involved as with any surgery, and something could go terribly wrong. 

I think that you're one of the most loving, sweet people I know, but to be completely blunt, you sound like you've gone off the deep end a bit...though I'm sure that's not the case...I just want you to stop and think about 10 years from now or so. 

As a fellow girl, my tits bother me from time to time.  They're big, they make my back hurt sometimes, and I don't like bras.  But I would never cut them off. 

Just my 2 cents.  :heart:


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.




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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Liz]
    #5271338 - 02/06/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Dont get rid of your breast.. just dont..


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271431 - 02/06/06 09:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
Hey Jacques :heart:

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:

I think you're slipping back into an ego trap... the "you" that wants this is still your ego. You seem to think it is the eternal consciousness that you've identified with in the past, but I don't think it is.

Please, just consider what I've said...  :heart:




It might be my ego talking.  It's just that...okay, recently (within the past six-eight months) I've had a realization.  I was going to keep it private but many people seem to think I am doing this for other people, so I'm trying to help you understand my motivations.  Well...part of my realization is that I'd be reborn as anything or anyone of my choosing, anything I want to experience.  So you see, I'm writing this book of mine so that I can reincarnate into it, I think that's important.  But I've become impatient.  As crazy as this sounds, I have a desire to become one of my characters, actually, not just a desire, I AM one of them, (in a way).  And I've been wondering what makes this particular character so appealing, and I've realized it's because we're one another, so I identify with it.  IT, yes, it doesn't have a gender.  So maybe you can see where this is going.  I'd like to remove my breasts so that I can be more like this particular character in my head...THAT is the image of Self I was talking about, but maybe it is more of an aspect of Self, not the Self itself if there is ego involved...and there could be.  This particular character isn't the most humble. 

I don't know what gives me this compulsion, but I know that more and more I am seeing things about myself and reality, that are important to me.  So you see, I feel in a sense I am playing a game, and that breasts or no breasts doesn't really matter in the larger scheme of things. I feel like I should just have fun, and it's fun for me to "be" someone else (multiple someone's) in the parallel reality that I write about. 

So I've probably just made myself sound even more like a freak, but whatever, I don't care about that anymore.  All I know is that since I've been listening to my SELF (or whatever IT IS I've been communicating with) I've been a lot happier and at peace inside.  I know it sounds ABSURD to some of you to be considering this.  To a small portion of me it sounds crazy too.  But I've learned not to listen to that judgemental side anymore.  I should just do what I feel led to do. 

And that's what I'm figuring out, if in fact I'm being led to do this.  The fact that I'm even considering it makes me wonder if I've been led to this spot, right now, to make that decision.

If I do go through with it, I won't have the money for several more months anyway. 

:tongue:I'm just trying to make myself understood, not sure if it worked this time though.




I'm sorry to say this to you, but that appears to be a delusional fantasy. One that could stand to do you harm. Delusions aren't healthy. There's no "except"  or "but" or "maybe" about that rule, either. Delusions are unhealthy and they cannot be made healthy. At best they do a little bit of harm and don't get worse. At worse they lead to a detachment from reality, an obsession with the delusion, and all sorts of nasty stuff.

If a delusion has become so important to you that you are contemplating getting surgery to feed it, then you need to talk to a professional about this. This is a serious concern.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you're going to want to spend that money on a psychological professional instead of a surgical one.

Also, just as a disclaimer, don't think that since you're not crazy you don't need a psychologist. All people could benefit greatly from the help of a psychologist from time to time. Right now may very well be one of those times for you.

Please don't think me wrong and choose not to consult a psychologist, this may be important.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Liz]
    #5271451 - 02/06/06 09:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks Ifallapart for your reply...I value your opinion. You bring up a good point (and several others have also) about childbearing. It's not that big of a priority for me, but Kevin desires offspring. I don't think pregnancy or rearing a child will be a joyful event and I don't think I'd make a good parent but I know Kevin will. If he is adament about having his father experience and won't adopt, I'll have to wait to get boob surgury after the child, because I agree that breastfeeding is healthiest.

The other night my father-in-law made a crack about how if Kevin "wants to keep me busy" he could see about making a Kevin Jr. I know he was kidding but that offended me...like because I am married and I'm almost to my mid-twenties (just turned 23) I'm EXPECTED to have children soon. That bothers me.

Anyway, I'm pretty tired of thinking about this now, so I'm just going to forget I have breasts until I have the money to remove them, in which case I will re-evaluate the situation. I don't want to end up regretting the removal of my breasts but I also am curious about what life would be like without them, how it would effect how I feel about myself, and if that would make being in my earthly body less stressful for my soul.

Based on that last sentence, I suspect they will go eventually. Maybe I'll spend half my life with breasts and then half my life without them.


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Konnrade]
    #5271454 - 02/06/06 09:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

How do you know a delusion is a delusion?


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271475 - 02/06/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Just from meeting you once, I know that you would make an excellent mother.  You love radiates around a room.  So do your breasts  :wink:  Seriously, think long and hard about not doing it...I really do think you would regret it to some degree, at least at some point. 

Feel free to PM me ANYTIME if you want to talk further  :heart:


--------------------
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The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.




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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271529 - 02/06/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I'd like to point out to you that your willingness to take drastic action in order to physically manifest a mental picture of yourself bears a lot of resemblance to certain eating disorders.

we all have complexes. But when you do something that is outside the boundaries of what people in your situation normally do, you are stepping over the line from 'complex' to 'disorder'. Easy there.

my advice is to eat a lot of painkillers or ecstacy and really come to terms with the way you were made. Love yourself for who you are. Sure, we can make little adjustments, but you have to draw lines somewhere. There is a big difference between, for instance, a new haircut and a major unnecessary surgery.

What you decide is none of my business and doesn't really have any effect on me one way or the other. Which is exactly why you should realize that I and everyone else here is speaking from a desire to look out for you. This isnt a political debate where people get attached to their opinions. These people are trying to convince you not to do this because they care about you and don't want you to do something you could regret later on. You haven't even lived a quarter of your life yet. Are you sure you want an irreversible treatment? You could be a completely different person in 5 or 10 years. Your age really isn't the time to be making decisions that will effect the rest of your life.

anyway, I say you should definitely wait a couple years and if you still feel the same way then maybe take the idea more seriously. I hate to say it, but members of your sex tend to be impulsive and sensational. At your age, the brain still isn't fully developed and hormones are still a huge factor in your behavior. Don't be a victim to your biology in this way. Sorry to be frank.


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271585 - 02/06/06 10:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

This is just fucking ridiculous. Sure, cut 'em off and make handbags out of 'em, let me rip your thumbnails off with pliers and we'll use them for clasps.

This is so shitty. I would shake the shit out of you in person.

Wake up!


--------------------
:orly:



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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271598 - 02/06/06 10:06 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.




No matter how hard you try, you will not beabe to do this. You will always be a girl, each sex has its own "tell tell" signs with or without sexual organs.

Also another point I would like to bring up. Even though you are employed now what happens if you loose this job?? Most employers won't hire somebody that looks "weird". Im not saying that I agree with this but it is also something to factor in.

All in all if you are set on doing it and have thought long and hard about later down the road and come to the conclusion you still want to just do it!!


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: DarkFluFFy]
    #5271621 - 02/06/06 10:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I wish fetishes still turned me on. NOTHING turns me on. Meh. I think it is from the click click warez servers. The servers that send you on a link chase for the L/P. Always pretty wierd stuff. I don't think anything creeps me out anymore. There are things out there, dark things, things that make even goatse.cx tremble.


--------------------
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271675 - 02/06/06 10:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
No one will get shot down in this thread. I really do appreciate every reply, even the unsupportive and brutally honest ones. They're valuable too, and I should hear them.




Ok against my better judgment I am going to make this post, because you asked for brutal honesty. I asked my friends to be brutally honest about how they viewed me a few years ago and it was very insightful.

Spend the surgery money on some therapy. Ever since you started posting at the shroomery I thought you were unbalanced and yes, "crazy". I realize "normal" is arbitrary and crazy isn't necessarily bad, but when your own actions and thoughts are having such detrimental effects on your quality of life then something is wrong and I believe you are "crazy" for continuing to subject yourself to it.

I can't and won't bother posting specifics because they aren't important but my general feeling is that you have some serious deep issues that need dealing with, and in general you are running away from them (either by smoking/drinking them away or by running into your fantasy book world for protection). Changing your body to fit the image of your book's character is just another attempt at running from your problems.

Quote:

For one thing, in societies mind, I am canceling out the most obvious thing that makes me female. It sickens me to think of how people fixate on breasts, like they're something so special, like the breast is what makes a woman.




Gross generalization. Society is a collection of individuals but instead you have decided to see them as one mass, with one train of thought. Perhaps you are projecting your own feelings/frustrations/insecurities onto "society" and then blaming "society" for creating these insecurities in the first place. That seems like a way to absolve any responsibility you might have for your own problems, transferring blame to the external. Perhaps that is why you are seeking to change to the external, hoping it will in turn affect the internal? Well that sounds like a cop-out to me since the problem seems to originate internally. It is time to stop playing the helpless victim and accept responsibility for your own actions and thoughts.


Quote:

It is just another example of me taking hold of the reins of my own reality.




You talk about having the control over your own reality to guide it through an infinite number of possibilities, so then why is adjustment of your own mind/thought process excluded from this control? Your reality is much more than just the physical component, and if you talk about truly having control over your reality, then control over your mind/thoughts is entirely within your reach.

Quote:

Because there are infinite realities for me to explore and experience, I shouldn't fear doing anything on my behalf during this one.




What do you fear about leaving your body the way it is? If you really have nothing to fear, then why even bother with this in the first place?

Good luck elle, I hope you didn't take any of this the wrong way and I hope you get everything sorted out in the future, I really do. But I seriously doubt lopping off some random blobs of flesh is going to help the situation.


--------------------
"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: TheDude]
    #5271740 - 02/06/06 10:33 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks, I will not take anything the wrong way.  In fact, you made a lot of sense. 



Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
This is just fucking ridiculous. Sure, cut 'em off and make handbags out of 'em





I was going to keep them in jars for my husband's sake.  :wink: :smirk:

:crazy2:

Since apparently it bears repeating:  I'm not cutting off my breasts tomorrow, or the next day, or month, or even year or ten.  It may never happen at all.


Edited by EllemyshShade (02/06/06 10:35 PM)


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271773 - 02/06/06 10:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
Since apparently it bears repeating:  I'm not cutting off my breasts tomorrow, or the next day, or month, or even year or ten.  It may never happen at all.




The best of luck to you, no matter what you decide, love.  :heart:


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5271836 - 02/06/06 11:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
How do you know a delusion is a delusion?




The person with the delusion can almost never tell. Because it integrates itself into their sense of reality. It can literally alter their entire sense of what is actually real. So, a very severe delusion over a period of time is capable of developing into full blown insanity. And of course most arguments presented against a delusional person will be shot down. Their first and often only response is to assume that the person telling them these things is an idiot or a fool. It's far easier to beleive that someone else is wrong than it is to beleive that your perception is wrong, the mind hates that, it does terrible, foolish things to protect itself from that.

What you describe rotated around a character in a book. As nice as fiction is, there is no bridge between that which we make up and that which exists. Fiction is forever and always nothing but a bunch of creative ideas that exist only in the mind. How do you think you can reincarnate into a character in a book you wrote? How does this character exist? They are nothing more than an idea conveyed by ink on paper or by pixels on a screen. There is no substance in such a character. There is no "reality" in fiction, the only way fiction can feel real in a meaningful sense is with use of a deep, complex delusion which can easily become addictive. Getting immersed in creativity is one thing, but the second a person begins to think that the fiction could be real is when they're not thinking sensibly anymore.

A real hint at delusion is when somebody begins to like their fantasy so much that they're willing to make sacrifices in the real world in their pursuit of something fictitious. So they decide that in pursuit of this fantasy they have, they should alter their body, or remove their breasts. It helps them immerse themselves in the fantasy so they can spend more time in their fictitious world, or so they find such a world easier to beleive in.

Of course you yourself do not think you're delusional. Perhaps one in 1,000 people are capable of identifying their own delusions. It really requires a concerned third party to actually see and recognize a delusion.

You would likely argue that what is real is subjective, but is it not possible that you argue that because it's easier to keep beleiving in your fantasy? Your own subconscious mind is capable of manipulating you more than any other person is, it can make you beleive things that aren't true, it can make you disagree with people because it's more comfortable with what it allready beleives, it can fabricate intricate delusions because it thinks the fantasy is more pleasant than reality.

Two questions:
1. Are you happy with your real life?
2. Is there anything going on in your real world (emotionally, spiritually, physically, or with relationships) that you might want to try and hide from or get away from?

Don't think about each briefly, and mutter a convenient no. Spend a day or two, look for evidence that those questions might have a "yes" or even a "maybe". And hell, just spend a little money to go have a few checkups with a therapist and see if they can be of benefit to you in some way. It cannot do any harm.


Edited by Konnrade (02/06/06 11:12 PM)


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Konnrade]
    #5271981 - 02/06/06 11:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

How do you think you can reincarnate into a character in a book you wrote? How does this character exist?




Are you sure I should explain it?  It's kind of a long story, but I'll try to make it short...basically, when I understood that GOD is love and is everything seen and UNSEEN that I truly understood the awesome creative power that is GOD.  And then I started to understand my role in things, which I've been trying to grasp my entire life, and then over time and especially after reading Conversations with God and I realized that GOD is speaking to me all the time, through messages embedded in ordinary reality that I only have to be aware of to recieve. 

So if GOD is everything seen and unseen, pure CONSCIOUSNESS, then that means GOD is imagination too.  In fact, imagination is a great tool of GOD and happens to be the fuel of my being.  I cannot live without it, cannot.  It may seem silly, but when I do not have a story going, I am miserable and unhappy, like I "have no purpose," like I am adrift in life.  All my life I've known there was a book for me to write.  So finally...I started writing it a few years ago. 

As for how I can reincarnate into it...well, GOD being everything has a lot to do with that.  Since I am GOD too (we all are) I see no reason why I can't simply reincarnate into my book, created by imagination, part of GOD. 

And my character is just as "real" as I am, in "his" (for the sake of simplicity) reality.  He is just another facet of GOD, playing a different game. 

The game I'd like to play next (or have already played or am playing since all time happens at once), which is why I'm writing about it.  I intend on having fun with GOD, now that I know I can. 

So that's my reasoning. 

Ever since I was a little kid, I have always "known" that characters didn't just fall off the page after the book is over.  I have always had the feeling that they didn't just "end."  Chalk it up to a human reluctance to let go, but I can't help it, I've always felt very strongly towards fictional people. 

Perhaps I once was/am/will be one.  :heart:

Quote:

Two questions:
1. Are you happy with your real life?
2. Is there anything going on in your real world (emotionally, spiritually, physically, or with relationships) that you might want to try and hide from or get away from?




1. I have a wonderful husband, in-laws who pay for practically everything (duplex, car, etc), two lovely kitties and a pretty cool dog and I'm just getting started on my grooming career...so life is pretty good, I'd say.  I've noticed it keeps on getting better and better.  And my book gets longer and longer.  :smile: I know the impression is that I'm just some weird, disturbed chick who sits around fantasizing all the time.  Okay, that's not altogether untrue, but I have put a lot of effort into my "real life" and I'm proud of what I've accomplished so far. 

So yeah, I think I'm as happy as I could be right this very instant.  If I could spend all of my time writing, I'd be even happier.  But working keeps me socialized and well-fed. 

2. I'm not sure how to answer this one.  I GUESS there might be things I want to try and hide from...like life itself.  :wink:  I've never had a real strong 'will to live,' my body has always felt disposable to me. 

All this breast talk has worn me down.  Goodnight.


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5272007 - 02/06/06 11:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hmmm

You shouldn't mutilate yourself. that is just plain nutty. You don't want to be a wackjob, do you? Cuz if you "get your breasts removed", you will basically be "completely insane"


Don't do it


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InvisibleDmonikal
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Boom]
    #5272020 - 02/07/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"I was going to keep them in jars for my husband's sake."

I'm curious but did you get that from the same story I read? About a guy whose boyfriend umm altered him.


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5272154 - 02/07/06 01:13 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
Quote:

How do you think you can reincarnate into a character in a book you wrote? How does this character exist?




Are you sure I should explain it?  It's kind of a long story, but I'll try to make it short...basically, when I understood that GOD is love and is everything seen and UNSEEN that I truly understood the awesome creative power that is GOD.  And then I started to understand my role in things, which I've been trying to grasp my entire life, and then over time and especially after reading Conversations with God and I realized that GOD is speaking to me all the time, through messages embedded in ordinary reality that I only have to be aware of to recieve. 

So if GOD is everything seen and unseen, pure CONSCIOUSNESS, then that means GOD is imagination too.  In fact, imagination is a great tool of GOD and happens to be the fuel of my being.  I cannot live without it, cannot.  It may seem silly, but when I do not have a story going, I am miserable and unhappy, like I "have no purpose," like I am adrift in life.  All my life I've known there was a book for me to write.  So finally...I started writing it a few years ago. 

As for how I can reincarnate into it...well, GOD being everything has a lot to do with that.  Since I am GOD too (we all are) I see no reason why I can't simply reincarnate into my book, created by imagination, part of GOD. 

And my character is just as "real" as I am, in "his" (for the sake of simplicity) reality.  He is just another facet of GOD, playing a different game. 

The game I'd like to play next (or have already played or am playing since all time happens at once), which is why I'm writing about it.  I intend on having fun with GOD, now that I know I can. 

So that's my reasoning. 

Ever since I was a little kid, I have always "known" that characters didn't just fall off the page after the book is over.  I have always had the feeling that they didn't just "end."  Chalk it up to a human reluctance to let go, but I can't help it, I've always felt very strongly towards fictional people. 

Perhaps I once was/am/will be one.  :heart:

-------

2. I'm not sure how to answer this one.  I GUESS there might be things I want to try and hide from...like life itself.  :wink:  I've never had a real strong 'will to live,' my body has always felt disposable to me. 





maybe its jsut me but this doesnt sound good at all. you idolize your fantasy world too much. we all have our fantasy world, but we all have to know the limits of fanstasy and reality, and know that they cannot cross over. you seem to be letting them cross over (especially when you talk about GOD). i highly recomend you see a therapist incase there is something. you might be hiding a deep problem from yourself. maybe its many problems. maybe instead of tacling any problems which come your way, you run away in fear, or walk away in laziness, and let them boil inside you to the point where you no longer find any joy in your real life and thus spend your life in a fantasy world. you cant run away, you need to face them head on. listen to the people here on the board, many have suggested therapy.


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5272203 - 02/07/06 01:47 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Elle, it sounds like you should be focusing on your spirituality right now.

You've got a lot of strong beleifs that you've spoken about, but I don't sense much confidence in your words. Perhaps this attitude is something you've newly discovered? If that is the case, then drastic option is not a good idea right now. When a person is dealing with understanding their spirituality they may be prone to have less-than-wise ideas. Foolish or rash ideas which arise from enthusiasm but may merely have no possible good end.

The way you speak kind of reminds me of how a lot of people sound when they've just learned something or had a revelation and it's given them enthusiasm, but they lack direction in what to do with it.

In a nutshell, don't do anything sudden right now. It might wind up being foolish. Procrastination is probably a very good idea as far as it applies to your impulses in this area.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5272279 - 02/07/06 03:40 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You're an adult and you can do whatever you want.

BUT....this is crazy-talk. Don't mutilate your body like that. You're a woman. Your husband may be supportive, but I can guarantee you that he DOES NOT want you to do this. He married a woman and he probably wants you to stay that way.

Wait a while and see if your attitude changes.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Posts: 3,322
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5273492 - 02/07/06 01:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Elle, we are all from day one on a quest to simply be who we are and continue to become one with our own nature. Don't ask me why it's so damn hard! I guess God just wanted to make life an interesting challenge.

I find your particular manifestation of this fundamental riddle of life fascinating, poetic and vexing. I don't have any advice on what you should or shouldn't do... listen to "society", or follow this desire you have to change your body? Go into yourself? Go outside of yourself? I can't tell you. I can only advise you to keep close to the positive and wish you the best of luck. And ask you to keep us posted, if you're willing, as this unfolds.

a quote springs to mind, that I think can be interpreted as both an argument for this surgery and against it...
"things which are alike in nature tend to grow to look like one another"


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5273500 - 02/07/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

One more thing...don't rush into having kids if you don't really want any!!!!!!


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5274588 - 02/07/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

This is probably the worse idea I've ever heard in my whole entire life.


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OfflineScarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 8,127
Loc: The will to power
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5274608 - 02/07/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

There are people who are trying to get doctors to amputee one of their legs etc since they don't feel that it "fits" on their body. And yes those people suffer from a mental disorder and chances are so do you.

They rationalized it much the same way you do. You don't need a surgeon, you need a psychiatrist.


--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: spud]
    #5275354 - 02/07/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Here is going to be my final response on the matter.

Quote:

spud said:
This is probably the worse idea I've ever heard in my whole entire life.




Okay, now that I'm "out of the cloud" and going back and reading all my posts over the past few days, I can understand why everyone's reaction was so adamently opposed to the surgury.  Despite the fact that I've embarressed myself, I am SOO happy I got feedback on all of this. 

The thought that came into my head as I was re-reading, was: "What were you thinking?"  I got a sick feeling too.  I still feel sick that I wrote all this.  It doesn't seem like "I" wrote it. 

Honestly...I don't know.  I was trying to make it seem like I had spiritual motivations (because that would justify it  :rolleyes: ) but I think my motives were actually 100% self-destructive.  Sometimes I slip into a not-so-happy state of mind where great acts of destruction seem almost NOBLE to me, and I feel very compelled towards them.  In states like these I fantasize about disfiguring my body and it seems necessary.  If I could stop this impulse I would in a second, it just seems woven into me, unfortunately.  :frown:  It seems "logical."  In this case...yeah, I guess it was a little weird to want to make myself look like a character. 

In fact, I got the message it would be wrong to do so.  I'd be making myself look like someone else (instead of me, but of course then I wonder if someone else is who I am, but that is a whole different topic), and that isn't right.  We both have our own lives to live, and if I DO reincarnate into my story (still a valid possiblity in my mind - sorry) I'll have enough chance to be that way at the time. 

I'm sorry for being disturbing.  I was going to get therapy two months ago when I first realized things felt a bit askew, but I found out Petsmart doesn't offer therapy with the insurance I am currently under.  That was a blow to learn that, when I know that I would benefit greatly from ranting someone's ear off once or twice a week.  So I just kinda try to deal with things.  As long as I get up and go to work everyday, write a little when I come home and spend time with my husband, that's all I care about.  I've been living it day to day and things have been good.  I just had a momentary lapse in judgement when I made this thread. 

So in closing, I'm sorry for freaking everyone out.  I really am.  :frown: But I appreciate all the feedback I received about this apparently very sensitive issue.  Yeah, it was a dumb idea, but now that I've thought about it, I can say that it probably isn't an idea for me.  My breasts are here to stay.  I'd rather have breasts then a humongous scar where they used to be.  Plus I do honor, respect and cherish my husband and I do feel it would be a betrayal of him, no matter how much he says otherwise. 

So anyway, I guess that's that.  I feel the urge to keep compulsively apologizing though.  "SORRY for bothering anyone." 

Thanks again.  :heart:


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5275563 - 02/07/06 10:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

No offense but removing your breasts would not make you genderless. You were born a woman and you will forever be a woman. There is not one thing you can do about that.

Get rid of your breasts. You will still be a woman without breasts. You will be a woman with the chest of a man... but still a woman.

In all reality, all bullshit aside, you will NEVER be genderless. That's nature Elle, get used to it. :sun:


(edit: Didn't see your last post when I wrote this, I'm happy you have rethought your stance on this.)


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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OfflineKonnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5276199 - 02/08/06 02:59 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
Here is going to be my final response on the matter.

Quote:

spud said:
This is probably the worse idea I've ever heard in my whole entire life.




Okay, now that I'm "out of the cloud" and going back and reading all my posts over the past few days, I can understand why everyone's reaction was so adamently opposed to the surgury.  Despite the fact that I've embarressed myself, I am SOO happy I got feedback on all of this. 

The thought that came into my head as I was re-reading, was: "What were you thinking?"  I got a sick feeling too.  I still feel sick that I wrote all this.  It doesn't seem like "I" wrote it. 

Honestly...I don't know.  I was trying to make it seem like I had spiritual motivations (because that would justify it  :rolleyes: ) but I think my motives were actually 100% self-destructive.  Sometimes I slip into a not-so-happy state of mind where great acts of destruction seem almost NOBLE to me, and I feel very compelled towards them.  In states like these I fantasize about disfiguring my body and it seems necessary.  If I could stop this impulse I would in a second, it just seems woven into me, unfortunately.  :frown:  It seems "logical."  In this case...yeah, I guess it was a little weird to want to make myself look like a character. 

In fact, I got the message it would be wrong to do so.  I'd be making myself look like someone else (instead of me, but of course then I wonder if someone else is who I am, but that is a whole different topic), and that isn't right.  We both have our own lives to live, and if I DO reincarnate into my story (still a valid possiblity in my mind - sorry) I'll have enough chance to be that way at the time. 

I'm sorry for being disturbing.  I was going to get therapy two months ago when I first realized things felt a bit askew, but I found out Petsmart doesn't offer therapy with the insurance I am currently under.  That was a blow to learn that, when I know that I would benefit greatly from ranting someone's ear off once or twice a week.  So I just kinda try to deal with things.  As long as I get up and go to work everyday, write a little when I come home and spend time with my husband, that's all I care about.  I've been living it day to day and things have been good.  I just had a momentary lapse in judgement when I made this thread. 

So in closing, I'm sorry for freaking everyone out.  I really am.  :frown: But I appreciate all the feedback I received about this apparently very sensitive issue.  Yeah, it was a dumb idea, but now that I've thought about it, I can say that it probably isn't an idea for me.  My breasts are here to stay.  I'd rather have breasts then a humongous scar where they used to be.  Plus I do honor, respect and cherish my husband and I do feel it would be a betrayal of him, no matter how much he says otherwise. 

So anyway, I guess that's that.  I feel the urge to keep compulsively apologizing though.  "SORRY for bothering anyone." 

Thanks again.  :heart:




Good to know that 1. you reconsidered this and 2. you're aware of why you wanted to.

Sorry to hear that you're not insured for use of a therapist, but you might want to see if you can fit it into your budget anyways. What you describe of your symptoms makes it sound like it's worth the cost, depending on the charge of the therapist in question.

And feel free to chat with us shroomerites about it in the meantime. Plenty of us would be happy to be a listener when you want to talk about things.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineBooby
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Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 3,781
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5276375 - 02/08/06 06:37 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
I was going to get therapy two months ago when I first realized things felt a bit askew, but I found out Petsmart doesn't offer therapy with the insurance I am currently under. That was a blow to learn that, when I know that I would benefit greatly from ranting someone's ear off once or twice a week.




You've got us Ellemy'. maybe you could post a picture of the offending articles so we can give them the admiration they deserve.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
Being.
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Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 7,825
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
    #5276389 - 02/08/06 06:53 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
Locked at Ellemysh's request.


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