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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Removing my breasts
#5266617 - 02/05/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's not that I want to be a guy. It's that I want to be neither. I have been considering surgury in the future to get my boobs removed from my body. I'm not worried about my husband's reaction. That's not an issue as we've already spoken about it.
This is about me feeling more comfortable in my own skin. This is about manifesting my 'idea' of mySelf into physical reality. I figure it's my life so I should do whatever I feel like doing while I have the time to do it.
I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.
My question is: Are there any "girls" here who have elected to remove their breasts in order to achieve balance in their life? How has not having breasts changed your life, for better or worse?
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All


Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
#5266660 - 02/05/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Don't do it Ellemy. Mother Nature gave you your body. Why would you want to destroy it?
Quote:
I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.
Why? What would be the advantage to doing that?
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cookeman
Live and let live


Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 1,077
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: HeavyToilet]
#5266670 - 02/05/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
HeavyToilet said: Don't do it Ellemy. Mother Nature gave you your body. Why would you want to destroy it?
Quote:
I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.
Why? What would be the advantage to doing that?
The only thing I can think of is not being stereotyped because of being a women.
-------------------- “Let’s put it this way – to lump psychedelic mushrooms into the same group as methamphetamine is like lumping the Bible into the same group as Mein Kampf. I mean shit; they’re both books, right?” Joe Rogan R.I.P. - "Bones" - One of the greatest people I've ever had the pleasure of getting to know and become friends with.
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: HeavyToilet]
#5266705 - 02/05/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
HeavyToilet said: Don't do it Ellemy. Mother Nature gave you your body. Why would you want to destroy it?
Quote:
I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.
Why? What would be the advantage to doing that?
WEll, I do not consider breast removal "destroying my body." More like molding my body to fit my internal image of mySelf. I've been thinking about this recently. I don't feel it's that different then going on a diet to shed a hundred pounds. In both cases you are choosing actions and behaviors which will mold your body to appear more like you desire it to appear. In my case, I will be molding myself to be less female, and hopefully more neutral.
I can see many advantages to removing my breasts. For one thing, in societies mind, I am canceling out the most obvious thing that makes me female. It sickens me to think of how people fixate on breasts, like they're something so special, like the breast is what makes a woman.
Well guess what. I don't want to play that game anymore. That's honestly how I feel. I "quit" being a female, since it's obvious I will never measure up to the standards we impose on one another with gender.
I no longer want any part of the gender game. I elect to be neither. I feel there is nothing wrong with this. In fact, I crave this.
Another advantage is internal balance. Inside, where the sun don't shine, where I hide mySelf, is where I have an idea of me and as long as I am female I am denying the truth of who I really am.
The point is, I have never felt "right" being female. And now I am discovering I can do something about it.
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
#5266714 - 02/05/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
EllemyshShade said: It's not that I want to be a guy. It's that I want to be neither. I have been considering surgury in the future to get my boobs removed from my body. I'm not worried about my husband's reaction. That's not an issue as we've already spoken about it.
This is about me feeling more comfortable in my own skin. This is about manifesting my 'idea' of mySelf into physical reality. I figure it's my life so I should do whatever I feel like doing while I have the time to do it.
I want to erase all aspect of sexuality from myself. I don't want someone to be able to look at me and tell if I'm a boy or girl. I don't want breasts and I don't want a gender. I choose to remain in-between.
My question is: Are there any "girls" here who have elected to remove their breasts in order to achieve balance in their life? How has not having breasts changed your life, for better or worse?
You will never escape your sex, it's in your chromosomes, mrs. xx. It looks like you've made some important realizations regarding gender though, in that it's ambiguos and for that I applaud you.
Your brain is in physical reality, no? Manifesting your thoughts into feelings of being comfortable in your own skin seems much more practical than lobbing off your breasts, not to mention a hell of a lot more rational.
Developing a personality that goes beyond gender is what you should be working on. You're showing a lot of attachment to how people perceive you. Live for yourself, not for others. Why does it matter if someone sees you as a woman? Are you tired of the suffering others cause you when they treat you differntly because of your sex?
Perhaps your identity as a woman is what you need to work on. Maybe it's time you start fully exploring what it means to be a woman.
p.s
your breasts aren't the only way to identify your sex, reconstructing your hip strcture is going to be quite expensive
--------------------
I have considered such matters. SIKE
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Cherk]
#5266724 - 02/05/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, that was a good post. 
Quote:
Smoker For Peace said: You're showing a lot of attachment to how people perceive you. Live for yourself, not for others.
Exactly. Everyone doesn't want me to remove my breasts. If I didn't go through with it, wouldn't I be listening to you guys, instead of mySelf?
There is a picture in my minds eye. It's me, but I'm different then that picture. I want to conform to the picture that I have created of myself, for myself.
Thanks for the reply.
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
#5266728 - 02/05/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
EllemyshShade said:
WEll, I do not consider breast removal "destroying my body." More like molding my body to fit my internal image of mySelf. I've been thinking about this recently. I don't feel it's that different then going on a diet to shed a hundred pounds. In both cases you are choosing actions and behaviors which will mold your body to appear more like you desire it to appear. In my case, I will be molding myself to be less female, and hopefully more neutral.
I can see many advantages to removing my breasts. For one thing, in societies mind, I am canceling out the most obvious thing that makes me female. It sickens me to think of how people fixate on breasts, like they're something so special, like the breast is what makes a woman.
Breasts are beautiful. Breast milk is what boosts a newborns immune system and sustains their life. To me it looks like you're more "sickended" at the pervading standard of what healthy sexuality is in American pop-culture.
Quote:
EllemyshShade said: Well guess what. I don't want to play that game anymore. That's honestly how I feel. I "quit" being a female, since it's obvious I will never measure up to the standards we impose on one another with gender.
Then quit playing the game yourself. You cannot control how other people think, it aint gonna happen friend. You're showing a lot of refusal to let go and accept what is.
Also, please speak for yourself, I do not impose any standards on people based upon their gender.
Quote:
EllemyshShade said:
I no longer want any part of the gender game. I elect to be neither. I feel there is nothing wrong with this. In fact, I crave this.
Another advantage is internal balance. Inside, where the sun don't shine, where I hide mySelf, is where I have an idea of me and as long as I am female I am denying the truth of who I really am.
The point is, I have never felt "right" being female. And now I am discovering I can do something about it.
I suggest you do some reading into transgender issues, you'll find a lot of pertinent information there.
--------------------
I have considered such matters. SIKE
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Cherk]
#5266739 - 02/05/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks, I found 'Lessons from the Intersexed' to be very illuminating...good book. Also I've made some transgender friends here and there. They are being very candid with me.
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Moxemerald
Executive

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 390
Loc: NJ
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
#5266740 - 02/05/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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All I can say is wow, someone is a little too far down the rabbit hole. Why change things? Things are perfect the way they are. Theres nothing that I can really argue because I know the defense you will have, but all I can say is that you better know what you're doing because you might regret it bigtime.
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
#5266746 - 02/05/06 04:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
EllemyshShade said: Well, that was a good post. 
Quote:
Smoker For Peace said: You're showing a lot of attachment to how people perceive you. Live for yourself, not for others.
Exactly. Everyone doesn't want me to remove my breasts. If I didn't go through with it, wouldn't I be listening to you guys, instead of mySelf?
There is a picture in my minds eye. It's me, but I'm different then that picture. I want to conform to the picture that I have created of myself, for myself.
Thanks for the reply.
Realize that this version of "yourself" you claim to be listening to has been influenced by society and culture since the day you were born. Then you'll see that the search for ones self's true identity isn't about changing yourself to create this ideal self that you've created out of defense mechanisms. It's about re-discovering your real self, which is eternal and never-changing. This path is about healing. The warriors path 
p.s
If you aren't down with the be here now philisophy, then please disregard everything I've just said 
p.s.s
I've been through some struggles with gender issues myself, PM me sometime if you wanna shoot the shit about it.
edit, I'd also like to add that I find your willigness to give up all standards of 'normal' to be praiseworthy
Edited by Smoker For Peace (02/05/06 04:24 PM)
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mushiemountain
i am the sacredone
Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 1,616
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Moxemerald]
#5266755 - 02/05/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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boobs are fuckin awsome.
-------------------- I Ain't No Fool. Mama Didn't Raise No Fool. ----------primussucks
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Moxemerald]
#5266764 - 02/05/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I appreciate all feedback, and yah, I'm going to try and not make any regretable decisions.
I just got a response from a friend from another message board who is trans. I had asked hir (her? him?) a few questions. Here was the reply:
Quote:
1) What's it like to not have breasts?
It fucking rocks! seriously I absoluetly LOVE my chest! I like to touch it,looks at it, even just know my breasts are gone forever. Nothing to get in the way, no awkward lumps of flesh.
2) How long did the surgery take and how long was recovery?
The surgery itself was a few hours, I'm not sure exactly how long since I was under anesthesia and then totally out of it on pain meds. As for recovery it probably took about a month to get pretty much back to normal and a few months before there wasn't any tightness when I reached straight up. But recovery time really varies from person to person. Also, though you didn't ask, the pain wasn't all that bad after the second day (which was hell) but after that it really wasn't bad. I had drains, whcih where annoying and a little painful, but not a big deal.
What's it like to be seen as neither male or female?
Well, it's hard to get people to see you that way in the first place, but once they do it's an incredible feeling of freedom! I don't have to pretend to be something I'm not anymore, I can just be myself.
How does this affect your relationship with others?
On general it hasn't had much of an effect. Most of the people I hang out with just see me as a person, and the fact that I'm genderless doesn't matter to them. Unfortunately there are exceptions, for instance today I go told I was scary by someone I was chatting with on MSN. In the dating realm it's a little different. *sigh* lol I think it does get in the way a little, but I'm cofindent it won't be a huge problem.
Do people still try to polarize you into one or the other?
Some people do, mostly people I haven't fully come out to as genderqueer just trans, so they think I identify as male. But again most people I hang out with don't seem to have a problem with it. They do use male pronouns, but then I haven't asked them not to, it's seems like it wouldbe confusing for them to try and use genderqueer pronouns. Society in general definetlky tries to polarize everybody! Gender binary bathrooms, asking for gender on forms, stuff like that.
Is there a special pronoun used for people who are neither male or female?
Yes, two actually, and a few variations. Instead of he or she you can use xe (pronounced zee) and instead of him or her you can use hir (pronounced here). And there are several variations on those.
I know exactly how you feel about wanting to cut off your breasts, I had so many fantasies of doing that before I finally got top surgery. Actually I identify greatly with pretty much ALL of the things you said! You are definetly not alone in those feelings. I also went back and forth on whether I was gay or not, now I identify as "pansexual" which basically means, just like you said, that gender doesn't matter when selecting a mate. And I had to deal with people overlooking my trans issues and just trying to get me in control as I am also bipolar on top of everything else and everyone thought it was just another weird symptom. And you're right, although your husband matters, this is something you need to decide for yourself. There where a of people around me who didn't want me to go as far in trasistion as I have, but it was something I needed to do inorder to survive my own life.
If you have anymore questions, or just want to chat, please feel free, I'm happy to do anything I can to help. I know how hard this can be.
I don't know. I'm so used to doing permanant things to my body that the thought of having no breasts for the rest of my life doesn't faze me that much. I will still be my Self. That's all that matters, that I'm true to my Self.
No, I don't have to get surgury to be closer to my Self. But I guess my train of thought is, "Why not?"
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Cherk]
#5266793 - 02/05/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smoker For Peace said:
Realize that this version of "yourself" you claim to be listening to has been influenced by society and culture since the day you were born. Then you'll see that the search for ones self's true identity isn't about changing yourself to create this ideal self that you've created out of defense mechanisms. It's about re-discovering your real self, which is eternal and never-changing. This path is about healing. The warriors path 
p.s
If you aren't down with the be here now philisophy, then please disregard everything I've just said 
I'm all over 'Be Here Now.' It's the book where you can open any page and learn something valuable and applicable about existence.
I wish I could crack open my head and let you see where I'm coming from. Chances are I'd just bleed everywhere, though. The Self I am listening to is the Self which I rediscovered some time ago. It's when I learned that all of existence spins forth from me (us) and that I (we) could create anything I (we) want out of the material I've (we've) been given.
So you see, I see nothing serious about altering my body this way. It is just another example of me taking hold of the reins of my own reality. Because there are infinite realities for me to explore and experience, I shouldn't fear doing anything on my behalf during this one.
If this reality is mine to create, then why not create it the way I choose? That is how I am seeing things now.
Anyway, I'm not going to rush out and get my breasts removed tomorrow. I don't have the money.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
#5266852 - 02/05/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Changing your body is NOT going to bring you balance. That has to come from within. Plus, I imagine Kevin won't be too thrilled without those babies to hang on to.
--------------------
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Silversoul]
#5266879 - 02/05/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I know. That's something I have to consider. He says he just wants me to be happy, but I know when he married me, he married a woman. He expected a certain few things when we tied the knot. Maybe it wouldn't be fair of me to get all freaky on him without breasts now. 
I am having a hard time understanding what's so wrong with wanting my mind and body to match, though.
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All


Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
#5266883 - 02/05/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you don't like people seeing you as a woman then I think you're gonna be in for a surprise if you got this surgery done.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but people will probably see you as a freak and being fucked in the head. It's just how society is. And I don't think changing your physical appearance would be worth all the other stuff that would change.
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eligal
Noobie


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
#5266914 - 02/05/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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if you dont want people to see you have breasts, you dont have to cut them off, just wear those really tight bands that some girls wear. and yes, it would be an extreme betrayal to your husband, in my opinion. youre inner image will always be different than how you look physically. but if you want to be above that, you dont have to remove certain aspects of your physical appearance, jsut how you portray and react to them. above you said that "I will still be my Self. That's all that matters, that I'm true to my Self. No, I don't have to get surgury to be closer to my Self. But I guess my train of thought is, "Why not?""
surgery is expensive, an unbelievable hassle, and leaving you with some scars.
have you planned on having kids? how do you breast feed? (btw, kids who are not breast fed, who getthat milk in a bottle shit, tend to have twice the chance to become allergic to stuff along with a few other minor yet annoying problems). and what would it be like to have a mom who doesnt have boobs? not because she has small boobs too small to see, but because she actually cut them off!
this is a major step, and you dont seem to realize it. this could change the way everyone sees you. your friends, your family, and even your husband.
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
#5266916 - 02/05/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Do you also plan on sewing your vagina up? Why or why not?
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: Cherk]
#5266919 - 02/05/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I won't even tell you what I had in mind for THAT.
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Removing my breasts [Re: MOTH]
#5266934 - 02/05/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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You wouldn't miss sexual pleasure?
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
Edited by Smoker For Peace (02/05/06 05:48 PM)
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