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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
Two Spirited

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 612
Last seen: 11 years, 3 days
Without Gender?
    #2993889 - 08/12/04 01:26 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What is a person to do if they are essentially without gender in a very gender definitive society/world?

I have always been between genders even from a young age.Too masculine to be feminine and too feminine to be masculine.This has been a source of great problems and issues for me for years.I really dont know how to deal with it anymore.Im too masculine to get along well with girls and too feminine to get along with guys.The only people I ever associated with growing up was with the odd tomboy girls here and there.But they have long grown out of that stage and our friendship ended.I am an outcast.Taboo in a society with very clearcut boundaries and lines.I do not fit into either boundary making me an outcast in normal society.

I dont view myself as having a gender but rather as being genderless.My clothing is both masculine and feminine.Not just one or the other.

There is alot of confusion not only in my mind but in the mind of all who see me or are near me.

This issue has caused me great loneliness and pain over the years.If I dress/behave as one gender I would only feel fake and like I was lying to myself but at the same time I risk losing just as much if I dont dress/behave as one gender(IE friends/family/etc).

The question is...What do I really do about it?Can I even do anything?


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InvisibleDragonaut
Fire Marshall

Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 5,832
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Re: Without Gender? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #2993943 - 08/12/04 01:36 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

do you have a penis?


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Without Gender? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #2994245 - 08/12/04 02:55 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

UnenlightenedOne said:

I dont view myself as having a gender but rather as being genderless.





From your description, it sounds like you embody aspects of *both* genders.  That's a far cry from being gender-less.  You sound gender-full to me.  :sun:

My advice is to not try and place a label on yourself and not to worry what your friends or family think.  Chances are, they love you for you.  No matter who a person is, male or female or neither or both, all that matters is that they hold true to their heart.  You are just *you*! 

:heart: :heart:


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
Two Spirited

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 612
Last seen: 11 years, 3 days
Re: Without Gender? [Re: MOTH]
    #2994338 - 08/12/04 03:27 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

From your description, it sounds like you embody aspects of *both* genders. That's a far cry from being gender-less. You sound gender-full to me.

My advice is to not try and place a label on yourself and not to worry what your friends or family think. Chances are, they love you for you. No matter who a person is, male or female or neither or both, all that matters is that they hold true to their heart. You are just *you*!






I meant "I view myself as genderless" to mean that I dont have one specific gender or label that I apply to myself or see myself as.Its not like if someone asks what gender I am I can just respond with an answer.My reply usually becomes this discussion rather than an answer.In my mind I dont feel any gender.I feel perfectly in the middle of both genders.Growing up I was labelled as being gay even though I wasnt.As a baby/toddler I was mistaken very often for a girl.Occasionally I am still mistaken for being a girl.

I am male externally.People would classify me then as male however its not that easy to just say I am male.

People also try to classify me by the sex I am attracted to assuming that most people are straight.I am straight but however while beign attracted to women in the normal sense I also find men attractive to a large degree though I am not bisexual.

I dress in both pants and mens skirts and actually have preference to skirts.I dont dress feminine like feminine patterns of clothing.But I do love to wear makeup and its very common for me to be in full makeup(ie foundation,lipstick,mascara,eyeliner,etc) and nail polish.That leads to me being called gay or a drag queen which I am neither.To make matters worse I get called the devil by my fiancee's grandparents and her parents well they call me fag,faggot,fag boy,sissy man,woman and other ill intended names.Much of my own family has abandoned me including one of my sisters and all my aunts and uncles.

Another issue is that I have muscle tissue that stands out in my chest and when I look very feminine at times rather than in between my chest sometimes gets mistaked for small breasts.Growing up I was teased about needing a bra.Growing up I was pudgy on top of my chest being odd and so it looked much worse.

Most of my family and my fiancee's family are very very strict christian/60's type people.Such things to them are an abomination under god.

Its no surprise at all that all the women I have dated were bisexual.I only seem to attract bisexual individuals and thats likely because of being in between both genders really.

Its a tough thing to deal with in a society that demands I be or proclaim to be one gender and in a nice neat category.

By the way,This isnt my normal account.I posted under this one to avoid ridicule and harassment like I have to deal with in real life.I dont want people to view me any differently b/c of this topic/issue.

Thank you for your advice EllemyshShade.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Without Gender? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #2994523 - 08/12/04 05:35 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps you need to see or meet or listen to other individuals who have a similar situation as you. One musician, Sopor Aeternus, who produces some very good music, had his external male anatomical parts removed, to put it politely, as he didn't want to be male, and became someone between the sexes. There are others like you, less extreme than Sopor Aeternus of course, but most of them, like you, probably do not want to speak up about it. There is no need to hide who you are; it will just increase the suffering in life. Be content and do not hide or be shameful of yourself, the people who matter will not care and you will not feel so alone in this. Neither should you flaunt yourself though; take the Middle Path, and be open to those who you feel you can talk to. People are often much more accepting than you would think


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
Two Spirited

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 612
Last seen: 11 years, 3 days
Re: Without Gender? [Re: Ravus]
    #2994566 - 08/12/04 06:31 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Perhaps you need to see or meet or listen to other individuals who have a similar situation as you. One musician, Sopor Aeternus, who produces some very good music, had his external male anatomical parts removed, to put it politely, as he didn't want to be male, and became someone between the sexes. There are others like you, less extreme than Sopor Aeternus of course, but most of them, like you, probably do not want to speak up about it. There is no need to hide who you are; it will just increase the suffering in life. Be content and do not hide or be shameful of yourself, the people who matter will not care and you will not feel so alone in this. Neither should you flaunt yourself though; take the Middle Path, and be open to those who you feel you can talk to. People are often much more accepting than you would think 




I am content with myself completely.It is others who are not content with me.This often causes problems like people not wanting to be my friend,people not wanting to go into public with me b/c of how I dress or b/c Im wearing makeup and even to the extent of people getting violent toward me b/c of how I look/dress.I hide and tend to be careful who I socialize with b/c I dont want to have to deal with people getting violent with me b/c they're homophobic and assume Im gay b/c in the area I live if you're not dressing like everyone else you must be gay in their minds.People here are quite homophobic and very very unaccepting of anything deviating form the norm.Even tattooes and piercings are seen as very criminal/outsider type things.Normal society mistreats others with these things.Once in a hospital here I was mistreated physically b/c of my piercings let alone how I dress.It is very christian oriented here and people have strict 60's style morals and mindset here.Anyone who is significantly different here is treated like a criminal essentially.The men here are taught that they must be as "manly' as possible from little on and the girls are taught to be very "girly" from little on.They are scolded or punished for anything deviating from their perceived gender role.The cops here follow me around and question me when they see me in public.They tell me I look suspicious and thats why they do those things when I asked why they did those things.(Sighs)

Also here if men cry they are likely to be publicly ridiculed or even beat up.Its like people here are stuck in the 50's and 60's.

Its not that Im shameful of myself at all.I dont remember ever being ashamed of myself.But I have hidden myself out of fear of the consequences if I am myself.

Pretty much the only people accepting of me here are gays/lesbians or bisexuals.The amount of people open about being gay/lesbian/bisexual is very small.There is only one place I know of where these sort of people hang out and its a bar in town here.Most of those people are older than I am because the people my age arent willing to be open about it b/c of the heavy taboo associated with it.In essence a repeat criminal offender is accpeted far better than anyone who is gay/lesbian/bisexual which is surprising b/c there is alot of diversity here.Especially racial diversity.You'd think with all the mixing of cultures and exposure to other cultures which people here accept,you'd think they would be open to people who are different but theyre not.

I can only discuss these things with my fiancee.But even she does not truly understand even though she is fairly masculine mentally.Although she is fairly masculine mentally she doesnt consider herself anything but purely female and acts quite female and dresses completely female.Everytime one of my friends has learned about this issue about myself either through me trying to talk to them about it or through me dressing my normal way in front of them they immediately cut ties with me as if I do not exist anymore.

One positive thing is that I will be moving away from here in approx. 3 weeks  :grin: .


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
Two Spirited

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 612
Last seen: 11 years, 3 days
Re: Without Gender? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #2994675 - 08/12/04 08:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I have modified a symbol when I was messing around with some symbols and I came up with this.



I feel this symbol very accurately represents my gender issues.Its the female and male symbols combined. :grin:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Without Gender? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #2994831 - 08/12/04 10:28 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yay for moving away in 3 weeks :smile:

I've been thinking about your post now & then since this morning but now you've added to it.

Indeed, you seem quite comfy with yourself but it's the outside world that clashes.

Alas.. Racial diversity says nothing. Two words are often used as to interracial matters: "Assimilation" and "Tolerance".

Well: Assimilation is what the Bodysnatchers or the Borg do: exactly become like us or else..

The most fucked-up word around is "Tolerance". Everybody buzzes about there should be tolerance of other cultures, sexual preferences etc.
Well I say f*ck tolerance!
Let there be zero tolerance.

"Tolerance" means you don't understand the people, you take no effort to understand them, you hate what they are or do and try to ignore them. Tolerance is a toddler who sticks his fingers in his ears, squeezes his eyes shut and goes: "no! no! no! no!" to indiscriminately blot out everything he may not like. That is "the spirit of tolerance" that should be promoted according to many people.

Alien concept: "ACCEPTANCE". Acceptance is not understanding somebody, perhaps hating or having no clue, but in a friendly fashion trying to find out what it's all about and instead of ignoring, living with it. If you accept someone, a behavior etc. you still don't have to seek it out or like it, but you strive towards easing your negative feelings and behaviors towards those persons or the topic. "If some kid in my store has padlocks for earrings I don't have to give him shit at the counter" "Err.. how do you sleep with that Mohawk haircut?"

Well.. you are moving away from the wretched land of Tolerance to (hopefully) the land of Acceptance.

All sorts of harassments.. the world's such a loving place once you really are a square peg to their mental board of round holes. As a teen I experimented with a tiny alternative looks thing which really opened my eyes even as a young kid because the world changed in front of my eyes, including strangers walking by.

My early teen vice was to wear a non-intrusive narrow leather headband i had handcrafted myself, as an addition to my adolescent resistance of wearing all-black & long hear.
Even grown adults whom I never knew gave me shit, including making a 13yo kid trip in the street and stand there laughing like morons when he gets up with a bloody scrape on his cheek from the pavement. (I shouldnt be judgemental: perhaps they were morons:evil:)


But anyway, back on track.
It's great you are moving away because local climates can be quite asphyxiating especially in smaller communities.

I think you should be able to do what you feel you should do and if you were a RL friend in a dis street situation I'd fight by your side if appropriate.

Being gay I can relate to what you're saying especially, since I look and act like the guy I am but some people when they find out i'm gay suddenly try to sissyfy everything i do. People have these huge gender-notion tags associated with that.

"Which one of you is the female?"
"Well thats kinda hard to say when you lie in bed sucking each other's cock!" :evil:

Masculinity and Effeminate traits are usually associated but stand completely apart from biological appendages, but try toexplain that to people.

A buddy of mine is a hermaphrodite. A true, genetic XXY hermaphrodite. I call him he, because he chose to go with the dominant side of himself which is masculine. From hearing him & his girlfriend I assume he has male or male-functional mixed-form genitals below the waist but being XXY he is alas sterile. (being a Christian he especially wanted to become a family man but God had other plans.)

His primary gender characteristics are something between him and his girl but secondarily his shape is more rounded and effeminate, he has slight bodyhair but no significant breast development. His psychology is a most wonderful amalgamation of both sexes, dominantly masculine but with female gentle sides and insights to him.

Physically fullblown hermaphrodites stood in high esteem in ancient Greece and Rome, he isnt nearly as identifyable but I understand that ancient part because his mind is unique, it is a fullness over the norm (even though he at times can be a bitchy bigot :evil:)which makes him special in a very positive way.
He is the Ecstasy-taking kind of Christian, not Heaven's Nazi like your town seems flooded with.

You are very gender-sensitive which tells me it indeed is a big part of your life. If you have physical traits, evben slight, you might have some form of mixed genetic composition, not necessarily XXY but possibly much slighter, or it may all be the result of a concious choice taken earlier in life and reinforced and expanded in the subsequent years. No matter.

Should you want to gravitate more towards one of both "fixed" genders hormone therapy can be helpful, notably testosterone for masculinisation and estrogens for femininisation. (interesting how male sex hormones are "controlled substances" and some female sex hormones are found in over-the-counter birth controll pills.. Sez something about the desirability of female temperaments during PMS and the desirability of the male temperament throughout the year. Appearantly Shirly-pills give you a bust and Buck-pills are a bust:confused:)

Male and female sex hormone therapy without op is usually no very big matter as its mostly swiftly reversed. The interesting side of it is that they naturally increase lines of thought and conduct etc. usually associated with the gender they represent.
If you let a doctor do the doctoring its pop a pill and let a drop of blood once every odd month, and being a sound, valid and perhaps justified treatment it is part of your inalienable human right  (in the US: inalienable human right if you can cough up the bucks) to medical treatment.
On one side it would extend your personal freedom of choice over your nature, on the other side it's "taking a pill against people that suck" like most tranquilizer prescriptions are or it can be both.

Dont feel forced into a chemical gender straightjacket: I just want to let you know these pills are out there, what I want is that you live a happy life among supportive and neutral people with no drugs at all that you don't really want.
Take time to make plans for yourself, one step at a time.

Currently you will move in 3 weeks and inserted into a new enviroment. It is a way to leave fauts of the poast you outgrew far behind and in a way start life anew. Keep us posted, we want to really help you out! :heart:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Without Gender? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #2994904 - 08/12/04 10:58 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I wondered about that one! It's a beautiful symbol that intrigued me.

Personally I would tilt it so it would point upward, adding in my view a spiritual meaning on top of it! :smile:


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Registered: 08/12/04
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Re: Without Gender? [Re: Asante]
    #2998043 - 08/13/04 12:28 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Ive been doing some thinking lately and I have a feeling I know where I want to go with this gender issue.See lately I've been falling back more toward typical male dress style lately just because I am nervous about the repercussion of wearing certain clothes and such in front of certain people right now.Even slight makeup and certain clothes caused me to be called those names and treated with great disgust and hate and wearing my normal stuff in front of certain people would likely result in violent behaviour towards myself or threats,etc.Stuff I really dont need.However on the other hand my need/wish to be true to myself is stronger than the reactions I may get as a result in alot of ways.It becomes an inner struggle to be true to myself yet not cause a war against myself.

Ive decided though that Im going to be who I am and who I always was and that Im going to dress as I like and be as I like and if people bother me excessively or try to hurt me I can always take legal action.(However the local police's reaction to anyone different is very disgusting as well.)

I plan to dress and be myself which means being right in the middle of the gender divide being on neither side but directly between the two.As it is right now my personality is that way,.right down the middle.I have just as many male hobbies as female hobbies.I also have both male and female emotions.There isnt any sign of one side being more present or stronger than the other.My clothing is color neutral as well.Neither being men's patterns/colors nor women's.However I do prefer to wear long men's skirts/gender neutral skirts and neutral shirts.I also prefer to keep my face gender neutral which means I may get laser surgery done to remove facial hair to keep a boyish/girlish face without have to shave daily/bi-daily.It also means going from shorter hair (which people always try to get me to keep because they say I look handsome with short hair)to longer hair like I've always wanted.

With my reading websites and talking to people here I feel I can be more open about who I am.I learned that I actually fall under the category of transgendered and there are alot more people like myself out there than I thought.

Of course once I become outwardly more gender neutral I may also change my name as I never felt my first name was ever right.Ive never fekt it fit me.I also recently feel I need a gender neutral name.I would like it much better. :grin:

One thing I dislike though is that when people learn of my "gender issue", they immediately assume that since Im a "guy" iots some sort of twisted sexual fetish to dress and be as I am.But its not even close to being like that at all.Its something that is here with me 24/7 in all I do and it never wavers or changes.Its always the same.I also do not like to be referred to as he or she since I feel I am neither a he or she.But since I am externally predominantly male according to others,.they always call me he and refer to me as male and expect me to fit into a narrow slot of an idea of what males should be like.

Right now in the area I am in there are several churches in a couple block area.There are about 30 between two small towns here.Where Im moving to is a larger city of about 90,000 people compared to now where I live its more in the country and has a population of about 7,000.

To factor in my parents into this equation: My mom has always supported everything I do even if she disagrees with it personally since its what I want or need to do.Most of the time she agrees with my choices and view and is very open and accepting.

My real father left the second my mom was pregnant with me so he was long gone about 6 or 7 months before I was even born and no one's seen him since.

My stepfather who raised my until I was 14 now was the typical Man's man kinda guy.He partied alot,always was into alot of sports both watchign them and playing them,boxed etc.He always tried to make me as he put it: "As manly and tough as possible" and that he thought: "Boys should be toughened up at a young age.".He always tried to get me into sports which I never liked and he always tried to make me 100% masculine.My mother however accepted my feminineness whereas my father denied the feminineness and tried to extinguish it.At 9 i desired to cook,drink tea,shop,do typical girl things but at the same time I also liked fishing,outdoors,hiking,video games,etc.Eventually this led to great discord among my parents b/c they sought to be different in how I was raised and as I grew older they fought more and more about it.My mom hated that my stepdad tried to make me tough and very masculine and he hated that she as he put it: "Babied me and made me girly.".Eventually they got divorced but when they were married he would beat the crap out of me when she wasnt around to discipline me and make me tougher as he put it.

Of course this led me to hide it through the majority of my teen years which caused me much depression and confusion.Its only really now that Im able to express myself and come to terms with the fact that I can be who I am now.

While I have considered things like castration,I decided not to for personal reasons as well as health reason.(I hate the male part of my sex drive.Its rather annoying to me.I prefer the female part of my sex drive.Its very sensual,gentle and loving whereas my male side of it is quite opposite.)

Ive never once felt I was male or female ever since I can remember Ive always been right down the middle.

Back to my family.As for the rest of my family,.my one sister thinks I am an abomination to the human race, my other sister does tease me alot but really accepts me.,(actually technically theyre my half sisters.)All my aunts and uncles and cousins disowned me for various reasons.My grandfather does not speak much to anyone period and my grandma just accepts things as is but tends to disagree personally with alot about me.,(Ie she accepts that I am a certain way but may not think its right or moral.)

For my fiancee's family,.Her grandparents (both sets) think I am an evil person who will burn in hell because i am an abomination for many reasons.They essentially hate me and talk behind my back.Her parents like I said call me many names and continually tries to introduce her to people they approve of.(Of course theyre rich and think they can run the world.)They do this stuff in front of me we yelled at them a couple times as we gave them more than one chance and gave them a chance to know me but they remained immature and hateful so we avoid them altogether now.(They also tease my fiancee about choices she makes but its not jsut teasing its very negative,.awful and hateful.Very offensive things.)

Her brothers hate the fact that I date her but are civil to me when face to face.

Currently we dont spend much time around her brothers because of some things they have said to people we know.Some of her aunts and uncles seem to be accepting of me but we dont get to spend much time around them currently.

I know who I am but others in my life only think they know who I should be and trie dto force it upon me.Its very hard sometimes to live in a society that says if u have male organs u are male and must be 100% male and if u have female organs you are female and must be female 100%.And if you are born with more than one genital organ we will butcher  your body when we decide what sex you should be.

I hate their mentality.

Thank you very much Wiccan Seeker for your advice.I will keep everyone psoted her as to how things go during and after the move and such. :grin:

:heart:


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OfflinePhishgrrl
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Re: Without Gender? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #2999038 - 08/13/04 04:19 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:heart: :heart: :heart: HUGS  :heart: :heart: :heart: to you! You are a brave soul. Just keep being who you are and hopefully the people in your life will be human enough to get past the silly barriers they are putting up.  It should be a good life lesson to them.

Much love to you!


--------------------
Once in awhile you can get shown the light

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Invisiblelooner2
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: Without Gender? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #2999211 - 08/13/04 06:35 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Gender is determined by your nuts or ovaries. Your body should produce testosterone which makes you aggressive, sexually driven, and masculine. It sounds like you might have klinefelter's syndrome. It occurs in about 1 in 500 births and is marked by a genetic defect which gives males an XXY chromosome instead of the normal XY chromosome. It leads to poor testosterone production and other things. Maybe you should read up on it and go see a doctor.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Without Gender? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3001443 - 08/13/04 05:17 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gender is determined by your nuts or ovaries. Your body should -- syndrome -- genetic defect -- instead of the normal -- It leads to poor testosterone -- maybe should go see a doctor




Looner2: I know you mean well. Indeed Klinefelter is a frequent cause of XXY and may be underlying but there are many more genetic things. I see you're helpful but think you're too medical on it. The medical part would only be relevant in choosing for hormone therapy or interventions or perhaps reproductive consequences. Fact is that chromosome anomalies are little more then a label without gene therapy, and it's all a matter of choice, a State of Being not an illness. Sorry to be so blunt, I know you mean well!



Quote:

Ive decided though that Im going to be who I am and who I always was and that Im going to dress as I like and be as I like


:heart: :thumbup:

Thats the best choice anyone can make I think!
I want to advise you to pack a few dire offensive hand-to-hand combat moves for more acute justice then the legal system, websites and files aplenty out there. I think you are scared and scared people more often get taken advantage of.

I just dont want any harm to come to ya, your experiences sounds risky but should by no means keep you from being you. Self-confidence is the best defence against any harassment, and knowing you pack even a few moves will give you the confidence that can make you less vulnerable to any suckiness.

I know firsthand that the "To Serve And Protect" of police sometimes has an invisible ink add-on "Those I Consider My Own".
Policemen deal with violence. If you choose to become a cop (sez it all) you are statistically more likely to object to violence less then your average Joe. They don't call em "beat cops" for nothing.
So i know some cops, well, aren't cops.


You should find your comfort zone and work with that. You're an adult, don't end up on your death bed having lived a life thats more water then wine in an effort to please all but yourself.

Be YOU.
If you feel walking the line of Gender is the thing you really want to do, then you really should.
But.. Aside from your tendency, choice and RIGHT to live your life how you feel it would be best I see more.


I think on some things you are more fixated on gender then is the real, happy you. I'll be direct, thus harsh.

Quote:

My stepfather who raised my until I was 14 --- always tried to make me as he put it: "As manly and tough as possible" and that he thought: "Boys should be toughened up at a young age.".He always tried to get me into sports which I never liked and he always tried to make me 100% masculine.My mother however accepted my feminineness whereas my father denied the feminineness and tried to extinguish it. ---was into alot of sports playing them,he boxed etc---he would beat the crap out of me when she wasnt around to discipline me and make me tougher as he put it..




This sounds to me like your stepfather disagreed with your Nature and abusively tried to force you and as a boxer beat you to make you become something you likely were not nor wanted to be.
It seems to me that your quest for your identity got "manhandled" by his parenting so you overclassify things into gender.

You were abused because of gender issues by a stepdad trying to beat masculinity into you. You have your male and female sides, but this must be a big part of your dislike of your male side, just for childhood survival's sake, and it likely enhanced your natural focus. 

What makes "cooking, shopping, drinking tea" into female activities and "hiking, the outdoors, computer games and fishing" into male passtimes. Those are his morals. You are you. Once you are in the new place, starting over, you got to start your life anew.
My dad always says: "It takes 30 years to get rid of a decent upbringing." :evil: and by God he's right! No matter how you were raised, you need to become the center of your universe.

What's a Man (thats a song I believe), what's a Woman? I have faced Hells (brink of death on the ICU, parting with this life and ending your final prayer) with courage and marched through very bitter crises. Many cultures say thats a Real Man, but even though I am that is Real Adulthood. Cultures got strange imagery. Needlework is female and toughness is manly.. How about Rambo stitching up his ripped arm :grin: We drop from the womb to the coffin and the free-fall in between is Life. Make it a FREE fall! You got to live your life, set your values and live like you feel you should.

It sounds awful, but find peace with your genitals. Biologically and bluntly put they are Life's Gate turned inside-out with the penis being a morphed clitoris and the balls being externalized ovaries. Male and female are a harmonious flow, and part of your goal in life is to regain the harmony robbed from you by the cruel harshness of a very, very unhappy man. Forgive him inside of yourself. Not because of him, but to find peace within yourself and get on with the healing and your life how it should be.

A bigger town of 90.000 can add some acceptance, but especially anonymity and indifference. This is a good thing. We can't all accept each other because that would mean interact with everyone which is impractical in a city of 90.000, so some neutrality is juust fine. Another good thing is that people you now know will be at a physical distance, and those who actually go that distance tend to be the ones who care.

Mentally prepare yourself in a special way: whenever you can lie down or sit with your eyes closed and pack things for moving to the city. Now there's alot of baggage behind your eyelids too, so if you find the peace for it put the good things in boxes and leave the bad stuff behind. It'll be with you until you are rid of it, but pack only the good things in the box you keep on your lap as you drive into your new life.

If you put your trust in yourself you will get there. That isn't my promise, that's the promise of the Divine Force, not the closed-minded bigod but the Force that gave us Life.
Have faith in yourself and go your own way.

In the harbor cafe i spent some of my childhood (dad's a sailor) hung a little tile. It said:
"Captain of my ship, the Lord, beside God, am I."
And so you are. You're leaving the harbor and setting sail, learning to sail along the way. It's not about getting to the other port, it's enjoying the Journey that counts.

You are a beautiful person in the words you write. Have faith.
The future is yours, and every day the past lies further behind you.


Blessed_Be


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 612
Last seen: 11 years, 3 days
Re: Without Gender? [Re: Asante]
    #3002868 - 08/14/04 01:06 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Its hard not to refer to things in masculine/feminine terms (ie things like activitites and other things)since its what Im used to hearing things as.

I dont see myself as male or female but something different and seperate altogether.I dont think that things I do are maculine/feminine.Theyre just things I do.

Today I was made to feel horrible ...I went shopping in moderate makeup my usual attire and people stared heavily.I became a spectacle for everyone to see like suddenly Im the sideshow at a circus.People were walking faster than normal to catch up to me to glance at me.Others denied my existance totally avoiding looking at me and avoiding acknowledging me or talking to me.(This included a couple of people who worked at the store.)A yet third group of response occured after I had checked out and began to walk away from checkout.As soon as I walked away I heard a cashier whisper to a teen girl and her daughter and they all burst out laughing.I knew they were refering to me.It was quite apparent.This whole situation which is a common response to me, makes me feel horrible.I feel good about myself and how I dress and Im very happy with it and very happy with myself.I like how I dress and I feel I look good.But then these people make my life harder and make me feel like crap.Then it makes it harder for me to be myself.

What really made me feel like crap today too was the factthat when I had discussed my situation with someone I know they decided to pretend I hadnt even said anything about it.They ignored every word I said and continually changed the convo to avoid discussing it.

Then again this is a town where all the people in it are clones of each other lol.They all think alike,dress alike and talk alike.And then here I come breaking so many of their precious labels and rules.The reactions I get vary so much.Children do not think me strange they accept me and even like my style of dress.Its the teens and adults who respond negatively.


People always try to slap some sort of label on me.Either they see me as a woman with short hair,a lesbian or a guy in makeup.Some just cant seem to decide what I am.My mannerism and speech and behaviour is mixed.My voice is higher than most mens voices and yet a tad lower than the majority of womens voices.Its in between.This make people more confused it seems.They look at my nails for a sign of gender.Which can range from plain manicured nails to manicured nails with clear coat to a wide range of colored nail polish on medium length nails(ie longer than mens but shorter than womens).

This being inbetween two genders really bothers people.It seems to be because I cannot be neatly filed into their system.(sighs)

I expect a few looks but the treatment I got today was very bad.These were mostly adults doing this too.Of course adults can be the most childish individuals when it comes to others being different.

Does anyone else here ever get treated like a sideshow freak?


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
Two Spirited

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 612
Last seen: 11 years, 3 days
Re: Without Gender? [Re: looner2]
    #3002922 - 08/14/04 01:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Gender is really a social role in society.Sex is what you resemble physically.Physically I appear with mixed traits for example...I have a masculine nose but quite feminine full soft lips.I have neutral eyes and neutral ears but a slightly rounded feminine outline/jawline and a more feminine chin(perhaps neutral).I have a male to maleish hair cut.I am assumed to be male or a masculine female because of my haircut,.certain features and my height.(I am 5'11")However my body is between sexes really.Mixed traits.People try to assign me a gender based on how I appear.If I would wear more feminine dress up type makeup I'd be definitely female in people's eyes.If I wear casual makeup people can take it either way.With longer hair Id be more feminine in peoples eyes.Its all about how they assign certain things as feminine and certain things as male.I am quite neutral period but people assign me one gender or the other based on how many assigned sex traits/things I have/show.

However according to my genitalia I would definitely be labeled male.Period.In people's eyes my sex is male and thats what is says on my birth certificate.No matter what i say opr what secondary traits I may have I will be labeled as male as a sex.My gender changes person to person in their eyes because according to them there are only two genders.And I can seem to encompass one gender or the other at face value depending on what Im wearing or doing at the moment.They all disagree to my gender at various times.In my eyes Im more of a third gender being neither male or female solely.However as far as sex goes everyone agrees Im male because of my genitalia.However I do not feel male which then leads people to believe im just crazy or weird.

The point is people's view of my gender changes according to people depending on many factors or even the person's mindset.My sex however is never disputed and their view of it never changes.


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Invisiblecricket
Lord Cricket
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 910
Loc: in my house, in front of ...
Re: So...What's wrong with that? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3012377 - 08/17/04 09:21 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I am a strait male with many Fem. qualities. I can relate to ALMOST eveything you said.
I am six four thin but muscular. I like to hunt, work on cars, I have a pet alligator and several venomous snakes. MAN SHIT!!
I speak with a soft voice. I also like to sew, shop, cook, cuddle, talk after sex. pamper my kids. WOMAN SHIT!!
When I was younger I wore make up, nail polish, all kinds of jewelry. A big differance is that I wore it with a studded leather coat, combat boots, and some artsy, multi colored, mohawkish hair cut. People were afraid to say anything were I could actually hear them. I made myself look big and scary, nobody noticed that I could apply makeup like a pro, or that I knew more about dress making then most women.
I had fun with it too. I was the big, strange looking guy that made women clutch their purses out of fear, then opened the door (with a smile) for little old ladies, or offered a sucker to the kid that skinned his knee in the store.
There is nothing wrong with you. The rest of the world is fucked up, but we all know that allready.
Sounds like you live in the same town you grew up in. It will get easier when you move to a bigger town. Once you get away from family, and old friends you will be able to surround yourself with people you want to be around. People that want to be around you.

I just hope you don't try to change yourself for the people around you. Don't try to fix anything. You are not broken. Do what is right for you


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