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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Flying Saucers
    #516249 - 01/10/02 11:19 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

What Kenneth Arnold saw in 1948 was flying wing-shaped craft that skipped through the air like a saucer.

Note: he did NOT say they were saucer-shaped. But because that was the image painted in the minds of the masses by the word: saucer, UFO reports for many years thereafter were about saucer-shaped objects. Wing-shaped craft reports were very few. This speaks highly of the susceptability of people to suggestion.

The same thing with alien appearances, they were much different from decade to decade depending on the popular myth of the time. As a counter, UFO proponents will state that there are many types of crafts and different races - whatever.

As it is all science fiction, the rules of visitation keep morphing, not as more information appears, but as more stories are debunked. With each story being shown that the interpretation was false, the proponent will say, "Well OK, but what about Roswell or Bentwater?"

The most recent one to be debunked after "The Gulf Breeze Hoax" was the "Phoenix Lights". Some 10,000 people claimed to have seen giant motherships blacking out the stars over downtown Phoenix. Several dozen had actual videotape. Ah - here was something that the much-maligned scientist could get his paws around. Turns out it was military flares some 20 miles away. Several points come to mind here:

1. The average person cannot tell location of a distant object in the sky.

2. Flares drop and drift at a very slow rate of speed, usually down with not that much drift depending on wind. While they dropped, people claimed the objects moved overhead across the city.

3. Eight points of light many hundreds of yards apart were perceived as one giant, solid object.

How do we really know that they were flares and not some bogus explanation: The video tapes show the lights going out one by one as they dropped behind the mountain skyline some 20 miles away where the air force base is. No manouvering, high rate of speed or solid object appears on any of the videtapes.

I have heard that radar sightings of unknown objects is proof of UFOs and by different proponents that lack of detection by radar is proof. Even believers cannot get their stories straight.

People see the prevailing myth of their day, faerie lights, demons, leprechuans, the Mothman or aliens from Alpha Centauri.

But hey, what about Roswell?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Swami]
    #516392 - 01/10/02 02:54 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I am a true believer of flying saucer, whether they contain high tech cia operatives or aliens i do not know. But severla times in my life I have watched for hours moviing stars. Which is not possible? So if you have a better explanation for moving stars, then i will refute my believance,


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Swami]
    #516403 - 01/10/02 03:06 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

About the roswell thing...the army actually said it was a flying saucer, and that was what appeared in the newspapers the next day. The day after that it was back on the front page as a weather balloon.

Have you seen the mexico city UFO footage from '97? Still below:

I'm not too sure what to think of this. It is a video of a "definite" UFO, meaning that it can't be mistaken for anything else. But, it could have been faked I guess, they say almost anyone can fake a video convincingly now.

The other one that gets me is the supposed UFOs captured by NASA crew members from outside the earth's atmosphere. This one recorded a number of images that cannot be explained. First of all we see a disc shaped object apparently avoid some kind of missile (that's what it looked like), and then we see 3 of them hovering in close formation above a thunder storm. They move independently of each other. Then, most interesting of all we see a HUGE disc shaped object appear from out of the clouds and move in that direction for a second or two before dissapearing again. It could be some kind of weather phenomenon that we don't know about yet, who knows. It's also interesting to note that after that footage was filmed, all subsequent live recordings from space shuttles were to be cancelled.

There are a couple more that spring to mind but I can't really remember the details.



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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Revelation]
    #516418 - 01/10/02 03:22 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

And then there was that conference thing held where a bunch of "credible" witnesses came forward and said they had seen UFOs. Somebody posted a link where you could watch a streaming video of it. Is this "proof"? Maybe.

And then there is the fact that the Russian cosmonaut Alexandr Baladin came forward and said "flying saucers" have come into close proximity to the MIR space station as well as the Baikonur Cosmodrom.

There is a lot of evidence that can be taken as "proof" by those who want to believe. Skeptics will find flaws in everything. That's a fact.


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Edited by Revelation (01/10/02 03:26 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: nugsarenice]
    #516465 - 01/10/02 04:41 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I have seen people get excited and shout,"UFO!" when seeing satellites, lighted blimps, meteors, a rocket launched from Vandenburg AFB, etc.

What you saw were moving lights in the sky. End-of story. You cannot speak about shape, distance, speed, structure, purpose, point of origin, occupants, propulsion, etc. With no more information, it is impossible to say anything, least of all: visitors from another galaxy.



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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Revelation]
    #516473 - 01/10/02 04:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Skeptics will find flaws in everything. That's a fact.

My dear Rev - that statement is a load of crap. First of all there is no such thing as a "skeptic" in general; only in relationship to a point of view. Everyone on this board is skeptical of something.

What - you don't agree? Then you are skeptical of my point of view and you find flaws in everything.

A skeptic will only find flaws where they exist. If the flaws do not exist then the skeptic changes his stance. Very simple.



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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Swami]
    #516486 - 01/10/02 05:04 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

"What - you don't agree? Then you are skeptical of my point of view and you find flaws in everything."

Uh..yeah. That's what I mean. The topic of this thread *is* flying saucers, i meant skeptics in relation to flying saucers..People will "see" evidence to support whatever they want to believe, that's all i'm saying.







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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Revelation]
    #516487 - 01/10/02 05:06 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Ah *slaps forehead* what about Mexico City? How silly of me.

Note that the ship depicted is NOT wing-shaped, but looks like the typical Hollywood science fiction spacecraft. What about Billy Meier's saucer hanging from a tree on a string? This photo is about as convincing.

Here is one point that you hardly ever hear about Roswell that is difficult to dispute. The debris was supposed to be distributed over a 1/4 to 1/2 mile radius. That would imply a very high rate of impact with parts of the "ship" scattered all over the desert. So basically there would be nothing left resembling a saucer, even if it once was so.

We will lightly skip over the likelihood, that an advanced technology that can survive an incredible journey from the far-reaches of space would be humbled by lightning (the supposition).



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Swami]
    #516524 - 01/10/02 05:58 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

"Note that the ship depicted is NOT wing-shaped, but looks like the typical Hollywood science fiction spacecraft. What about Billy Meier's saucer hanging from a tree on a string? This photo is about as convincing. "

If it was only one photo then I would agree, but there is a 50 second video of this UFO that is *very* convincing. It can be duplicated with today's technology, but as far as video evidence is concerned this is about as good as it gets. Could be real, could be fake.

You can download it here: http://jman5.com/mexufo.htm Unfortunately the quality of the mpeg isn't very good, it's better if you see it on TV.


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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Madness! AHahaHAHaHAHahaaA! [Re: Revelation]
    #516543 - 01/10/02 06:30 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Vatican Astronomer - 'It's
Madness To Believe Man Is Alone'
From Scott Corrales
lornis1@juno.com
1-8-2

El Mundo (newspaper-Spain) Monday, January 7,2002

"It's Madness to Believe that Man is Alone" Vatican Astronomier Admits Possibility of Extraterrestrial Life.

(EFE) - Jesuit George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory, is convinced of the existence of extraterrestrial life and states that it is "madness" to think than humans are alone in the universe.

Father Coyne and his scientific team reached this conclusion after studying the heavens from the astrophysical research center located at the Papal summer residence at Castelgandolfo near Rome.

"The universe is so vast that it would be madness to think that we're an exception," said Coyne in an interview with the Milan newspaper "Corriere della Sera", underlining that "each day new data is amassed" which leads to the possibility of life forms different from those found on Earth. "The more we study the stars, the more aware we become of our own ignorance," he adds.

The Jesuit prist, responsible since 1978 for an observatory with more than a century of history behind it and reporting directly to the Holy See, states that "Science does not undermine faith; rather, it stimulates it."

He admits not having any proof of extraterrestrial life.

However, he admits that while there is no scientific evidence today that proves the existence of life beyond Earth, Coyne is aware that this eventuality opens a disquieting series of mysteries for believers, and represents "a great challenge", but that it should not be considered to be a "dramatic" event.

In this regard, the astronomer points out that certain sectors of the Church consider it negative to debate or study matters which could make Catholic doctrine "tremble somewhat." However, he insists that there is not necessarily any conflict between the Biblical orgin of the Cosmos and the current ones being championed by science, such as the Big Bang. ___

Translation (C) 2001. Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special Thanks to S.I.B. Betelgeuse, Spain.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Madness! AHahaHAHaHAHahaaA! [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #516587 - 01/10/02 07:24 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Jesuit George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory, is convinced of the existence of extraterrestrial life and states that it is "madness" to think than humans are alone in the universe.

It is madness to have a belief without any facts whatsoever pointing either towards or away from extraterrestrial life. We only have a small sample size of one and that is insufficient to take any sort of stance.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: Madness! AHahaHAHaHAHahaaA! [Re: Swami]
    #516678 - 01/10/02 09:03 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Madness I tell you!!!! HAHahaHA! Madness!

It begins to make sense though.
..........


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Swami]
    #517185 - 01/11/02 09:47 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

When I was 12, my friend (also 12) and I were playing in the backyard. I look up and saw a swirling mass in the sky. It was oval shaped-one oval inside another. The inner one was orange and the outer one red.

I yelled to my friend, "What's that!"

He saw the same thing and we watched it until his house blocked our view. We looked at each other and ran to the front of his house. The sky was clear that evening with very little cloud cover.

There was nothing there!

Now that I do shrooms---whatever I saw when I was 12--- had the same "energetic" kind of look and movement that I see in some hallucinations...

Were we both hallucinating the same thing?

Did we both see into another dimension?

Are my friend and I in some nature documentary that little alien kids are watching in school to learn about human children?

What if these "aliens" are here all the time and we can't normally see them?

Does anyone remember where we parked?

Truth is stranger than fiction...

.....Tannis



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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Tannis]
    #517235 - 01/11/02 11:08 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)


"Many people are confused about Ezekial chapter 1. Many people claim that this is a blatent example of UFO's. While their are many places in the Bible that support the fact that man was visited by the rebel ben Elohim (fallen sons of God), Ezekial Chapter 1 does not describe UFO's.

15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.

16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.

18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.

19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. (Ezekial 1:15-19)

The living creatures are the four points of the zodiac. The zodiac alludes to the coming of Christ (Genesis 1:14, not astrology but Biblical astronomy). Cherubim (order of angels) reflect the glory of God as does the zodiac. They are all interconnected according to God's plan. Satan has perverted Biblical astronomy with astrology. Satan can't do anything original so he just messes up and takes credit for what God has already done.

The wheel in the middle of a wheel are the terrestrial planets going around in their orbits. And when the living creatures went, this refers to the constellations of the zodiac as they went around the heavens. And the wheels went by them, the planets in their orbits went around with the constellations. and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up, the constellations orbit along a wheel just like the planets.

And lastly and their rings were full of eyes round about them four, this refers to the Zophim (the Watchers) as this is the same root word in the Hebrew as eyes.

So read Ezekial in this context and it should open up a comlpletely new perspective, it did for me. Don't take my word for it, let Scripture confirm it for itself.

With regards to the validity of the UFO phenomenon. When you weed through the hoaxes, confused sightings and everything else their is a genuine phenomenon. I am aware that the government has quite a technology in this area as well. The government could stage an event to help the world fall into this world government system.

Also I am quite sure (Hey I am positive) that there is an alien scenario as well. But these so called aliens are just demons decieving. 2 Thessolonians 2:10-12 warns us of a powerful delusion that will take place in the last days.

Yeshua warned us that it would be like the days of Noah in the last days. When you study Genesis (and the rest of the Old Testament for that matter) it is apparent that some of the Son's of God (benei Elohim or angels) took human women and had hybrid babies with them. I believe Satan was trying to pervert the genetic code to prevent the birth of the Messiah. I believe this is again happening these days.

This is why we must warn Christians of the danger of the UFO phenomenon. Many people refuse to take it seriously and it will take them by surprise. When these aliens turn up to bring 'peace and safety' the world will embrace them. They will claim to be our creators (they seeded the planet). The scientific community will love this scenario as it will patch up the problems they have with their evolution theory. God tells us in the Bible that the heart of men is dark and that we avoid the light. This is why man will believe a lie and will be so certain of the truth of this lie. Let us be right with the Lord so He will give us discernment.

Trouble is coming and SOON, so it is essential we seek God's face NOW. We must live HOLY lives. We must get rid of any wrinkles we may have. God will protect His own.

The thing that concerns me is that this planet is about to be invaded by demonic forces like never seen before. If you think it is bad now, just wait and see what is coming. That is why when the full force of these events occur it will be to late to seek God's face because this delusion is going to be so POWERFUL. Christians need to take all that is going on in the world seriously. Playing church is simply not good enough. Let's get sealed with this outpouring of the Holy Spirit that God has promised.
You may find this somewhat weird but I truely believe that the alien and ufo phenomenon is real, but a hoax created by Satan to get our attention away from the true creator (Jesus) on the created (Satan). If you know anything about the bible you will know that Satan was the most powerful angel God ever created. He eventually, because of pride fell and was cast out of the upper regions of heaven with one third of the other angels who also rebelled against God.

Why would Satan go to such lengths to devise this great deception? First, I believe Satan is trying to discredit creation by God by showing that we are not alone in the universe. Secondly, we get so focused on this phenomenon that we spend much time, and in some cases our entire lives trying to figure out exactly what are aliens and ufo's. Thirdly, because we allow ourselves to get involved so completly, we are susceptible to deception. This is where the problem lies."






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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


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Anonymous

Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Lallafa]
    #517324 - 01/11/02 01:09 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Come on now.... all aliens are minions of Satan? I happen to know Satan personally and he gets a bad rap. He has nothing to do with any individual alien groups.
There are two different alien groups, service to self, and service to other. I suppose you could call the service to self entities "demons" but we are still a part of the same Creation and everything exists for a reason. The only deception there is is by those who allow themselves to be decieved. The aliens I know cant stop talking about God this and Creation that...they wont shut up.
Jesus was an alien.


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Anonymous

Re: Flying Saucers [Re: ]
    #517330 - 01/11/02 01:17 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

By the way, Lucifer wants me to tell you all to stop thinking of him like that. He's sorry for the past shit and is trying to turn over a new leaf.
For clarification purposes, Satan was cast out of 'heaven' because he created his merkaba externally, rebelling against the natural way of Creation which is an internal merkaba. The difference is living in fear or in love.

Live in fear and Satan's got you by the balls
Live in love and forget all that silly shit


Edited by Anonymous (01/11/02 01:20 PM)


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Lallafa]
    #517333 - 01/11/02 01:20 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

So... are you saying that what my friend and I both saw were angels? demons?

I have read the whole bible... ....Tannis


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Tannis]
    #517338 - 01/11/02 01:24 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

mythical kings and iguanas...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Tannis]
    #517510 - 01/11/02 04:20 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

im not saying anything
its in quotes for a reason; i didt write it
i just thought it was an interesting and somewhat humorous read....


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


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Offlinemissulena
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Re: Flying Saucers [Re: Lallafa]
    #517611 - 01/11/02 06:21 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I dont know if i believe in aliens but one day when i was getting a driving lesson a few years ago, while we were driving along the driving instructor suddenly pointed in the sky and said "whats that" i had a look and what i saw did look unusual, it was metallic and oval shape and fairly large, it wasnt that far away in the sky, icould see it clearly. I looked back towards the road again as i was driving and than looked back again and it was gone. I dont know what it was but thats what happened.

About aliens, i always thought that they wouldnt come themselves but maybe send a probe like a space ship or something, so i believe its possible aliens exist but i doubt that theve ever been seen by anyone


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