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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Veritas and I both use Crowleys Thoth Tarot. I get very good results with it and like my readings taken without sugar. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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peepeepottypants
Stranger
Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 1,040
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 Re: Tarot Cards  [Re: Icelander]  1
#5001640 - 12/01/05 08:47 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm a big fan of the connolly deck, I used to use rider, and Unicorn, and although I do admit probably not in the way it was suppose to be used, I have the connolly deck to be a lot more cheery.
Its not a violent deck at all, the 10 of swords which is often someone bloodily stabbed to death is represented with a woman and the swords around her. The Devil and death have been changed the materialism and transformation to forgo the negetive conotation they tend to have. And although at first I thought the change of these two was really lame, I've come to appreciate it, because it makes it easier for me to understand and remember the true essence of the cards
PLus I got the mini size so its really great and portable!
edit-second time around I caught the sugar comment...then you probably wouldnt like connolly...its been soaked in sugar ha ha.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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knight of pentacles
---- my wife hates to draw this card
here you have the fighting spirit of a noble farmhand mounted on a drawhorse carrying his earthy wisdom into battle at the speed of indecision.
while he may be dressed for battle, he is trained for field rotation, he can certainly take several hits for his team but getting to the front while thinking of the cows and pigs back home is not a real priority.
one feels like a fish out of water with this.
one may even feel outright stupid, and "improperly attired".
things certainly move more slowly than imagined, or were they even actually much imagined at all.
we look great, but not really, it is a mixed up but strong position.
more rooted than roving
even turning around and going home seems a dumb opportunity.
but that is how it goes with this big guy, and when the right opportunity presents itself, this type of big mensch will be a credit to his cause, he certainly has chosen one, but may temporarily forget what it is.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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What interests me is the difference of descriptions of these cards from one deck and one author to the next.
So we are drawn to what suits (pun) us.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Tarot Cards [Re: Icelander] 1
#5001783 - 12/01/05 09:46 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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case-rider is the most complete description and most elaborately interconnected deck.
others, especially those designed for tricks and fortunetelling,
are more colloquial, and most (even the crowley deck) miss the core of inter-connectedness for the trappings of flash mystery & magic.
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_ 🧠_
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peepeepottypants
Stranger
Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 1,040
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Do you know of any websites that give real thorough descriptions of decks and their meanings?
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 eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte 
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
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Knight of Pentacles - whether or not to whip out the credit card.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
case-rider is the most complete description and most elaborately interconnected deck.
others, especially those designed for tricks and fortunetelling,
are more colloquial, and most (even the crowley deck) miss the core of inter-connectedness for the trappings of flash mystery & magic.
According to you? Or who?
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Tarot Cards [Re: Icelander] 1
#5002531 - 12/01/05 01:38 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
According to you? Or who?
thanks to your freind's good research
http://www.advancenet.net/~jscole/tarotrwsclone.htm
this is what I mean to suggest
Quote:
Perhaps it is just a historical accident, and perhaps it is a combination of the special features of this deck - that AE Waite designed into the deck a great deal of intentional esoteric symbolism, that Pamela Colman-Smith was able to fold all of the symbolism into pictures that really hang together well without appearing as busy as they actually are, and that it did have scenic pictures on the Minor Arcana - for whatever reason, this deck got wider circulation in the U.S. at least than any other deck for many years. Perhaps as a result of that, in the explosion of new tarot decks from the 1970's forward, the Rider-Waite has been the model used by designers of new decks more than any other deck, and for authors of new beginner Tarot books, it has been the deck discussed more than any other deck.
...
All of the decks listed, with the exception of the Rider Waite itself, are missing symbolism. Some decks are missing more than others. ....
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Not arguing, just asking.(i don't know enough about it to argue it) Can you give an example where the Waite is more useful than the Crowley thoth deck. I have used both as a rank amature and find the Crowley really works well for me.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Tarot Cards [Re: Icelander] 1
#5003466 - 12/01/05 05:53 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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not in the using
in the studying
pick a card, any card
compare them from both decks.
as it says in the quote
Quote:
Pamela Colman-Smith was able to fold all of the symbolism into pictures that really hang together well without appearing as busy as they actually are
much more basic symbolism
much less me me me in the art and in each card.
starting at ZERO - the fool card.
one is lighthearted and exquisite. (rider waite)
the other is very full of itself. (aleister crowley)
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Shnezbit
Psycho-naught
Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 1,202
Loc: The Threshold.
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this is a great thread, so many useful tips.
one of the main things i use the tarot for is the study of the tree of life.
the 22 hebrew letters are the 22 paths connecting the spheres.
cards 1-10 are the 10 spheres on the tree, broken up into the four worlds of the qabalists (which sort of explain how things come into manifistation) and which also have thier correspondance with the hebrew name for god: y-h-v-h, which is symbolized in the four weapons of the magician and hence the names of the four suits.
the 4 court cards are also symbolic of the four lettered name of god, most sacred to the qabala 'yhvh' and span the four suits. the father and the mother (aima and abba) and the son and the daughter(zauir anpin and malkah).
the significance to of the statement "the tarot is a pictorial representation of the tree of life" has profound implications.
paul foster case book's book mentioned above is definately worth the read. although my favorite book by him is "the true and invisable rosecrucian order"
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Tarot Cards [Re: Shnezbit] 1
#5012958 - 12/04/05 04:41 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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It would interest me, how the hebrew letters were placed between the spheres of the tree of life. Redgreenvines said, it is a bit flexible in original.
Also I am very interested, if the hebrew letters are really fixed to the arcanes itself.
I did not find a coherent source for both. And I need more studying.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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the case deck uses a consistent hebrew letter symbology and numerology. (several (like the Thoth) mix up 8 and 11 -"intentionally, to be more 'occult'?" - sneaky devils)
it is part of the "tree of life" spine that they hang the whole tarot symbolic relationship indexing on. (and that is chakkric, so we allude to a body of knowledge as well)
anyway, it is not a bad crystalline kind of view, but IMO, more of a good start, than a goal or achievement. More of a set of Keys than the rooms that it unlocks.
the i-ching also has a great sense of multilevel symbolics and a kind of numerologic pictographic symbolic spine/chakkra essence.
both codex types have been perverted into divining instruments, but they are best studied to see the consistency and nature of relationships.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
starting at ZERO - the fool card.
one is lighthearted and exquisite. (rider waite)
the other is very full of itself. (aleister crowley)
Sorry but I don't agree. I think the FOOL of Crowleys deck portrays all the aspects of the light and shadow (daydreaming, infantilism,and irresponsibility) sides of this card.
But in the end it's just a matter of preference.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Re: Tarot Cards [Re: Icelander] 1
#5013127 - 12/04/05 08:45 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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but you see
it is not about infantalism or dualities
it is about being mistaken for a fool whilst being immersed in the moment,
and doing all amazing and mundane things without being uptight.
the little dog and cliff are important symbols about unconditional love and and living in the moment.
even though people consider him stupid he carries a tiny purse of what he needs, and there is your eye of horus.
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_ 🧠_
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
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Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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My deck says, the fool wanders on the surface of 'existance', the surface of our world, the surface of phenomena.
The mage deals more with the materialistic principles of that surface, where the fool walks on, but still is bound by them (first border) as well as his c?unterpart, the priestess, but she works on a different aspect of that 'life'.
Something like that 
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Namgyal Rinpoche alsways said that the Fool (zero -aleph) represented the embodiment of enlightenment, the experience of being enlighened.
some thought he was fooling around, but I took it as seriously as anything.
of course in the deck - everything is connected, and the card should be viewed with the other major arcana to get it's depper resonance.
is it not interesting that it begins with the achieved one, and runs around in a circle back to itself? TORA - ROTA - TAROT (sugestive of circular construction)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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but you see
it is not about infantalism or dualities
Many people like to ignore the shadow side of the cards. I do too.  But it's there to take stock of and be aware of. Crowley was disliked for it me thinks, he found the Golden Dawn bogged down in stodginess, and upset the apple cart. He is disliked by mainstream magicians.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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