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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Who is your favorite President and why?
    #494758 - 12/18/01 01:21 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Explain why if you can...i'm curious what makes a great president. I know what makes a great president in my mind but it would be interesting to what others think makes a president great, good, lousy and just plain pathetic. If you can list 5 or so presidents from best to worst.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (12/18/01 01:22 PM)


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InvisiblePGF
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #494799 - 12/18/01 02:13 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I can only go with president's of my lifetime. I haven't studied past presidents much at all.

I think Carter was the best person we've had as a president, but being a good person does not make you a good president, right? He was a pretty ineffective president.

I guess the worse would have to be the one we have now. Bush Jr., is a pathetic speaker and has a weak presence.

Next to Jr., on the pathetic meter would be Reagan. The guy was comatose in office. A fucking shadow of a man. This was the man who when in office in Cali called oiut the national gaurd on the "nigger" (his word) menace. How he made it to the whitey's house, I'll never know.

Nixon was not all that bad except he was monomaniacal and a liar. Bush Sr.,was involved in the iran arms thing and was also a liar. Plus Bush Sr., was ex-CIA and was generally an evil person.

Kennedy was a great man and president in my opinion. But he was before my time. Since I've been alive, I think Clinton has been the best president we've had. He had a powerful presence. He's a very smart man (unlike Jr.) and he made some good decisions.

The Reagan's and bushes of this world always destroy our economy and fuck put the nation in turmoil for their 4-8 years. I hope to God this Jr., is outsted after 4.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #494880 - 12/18/01 03:39 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

How can you, a relatively intelligent person, say that Clinton was a good president.

Good decisions?

Which ones are those, selling secrets to China or bombing a pharmacutical plant in Afghanistan?

Nixon was a nazi.

Reagan was a good president. He was balls out.

Bush Sr had no balls.

Bush Jr doesn't have balls but he does what he's told and the people doing the telling have balls of rock.
Bush Jr. is very charismatic. He has an endearing quality.

But pleease tell me what "good" decisions Clinton made.
Kennedy was probably the last truely great president. I'll agree with that.


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InvisiblePGF
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #494917 - 12/18/01 04:25 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Hey, don't start with the pharmaceutical plant bombing BS. There is reason to believe the plant was not really a pharmaceutical plant. Do you think they hang "chemical weapons plant" signs on the buildings where chem weapons are made? Of course not. During the Gulf War, under Bush, Iraq claimed we bombed a baby food plant. Wether or not these two incidents were mistaken bombings of non-military targets is irrelevant.

Clinton's policies kept America rolling in the good times. Gore and Lieberman would've kept the economy rolling and now we have this putz, Bush Jr., who can barely tie his shoes and the economy is worse than it's been in 8 years.

Bush Jr. is very charismatic. He has an endearing quality.


Surely you are joking, unless you are referring to the kind of endearing quality a dumb cocker spaniel has............


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***The Real Shroomery nigger


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #494940 - 12/18/01 04:52 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

1.Thomas Jefferson

In addition to being one of the founders I like him the best for his ability to lead within the context of the Constitution.  He said the following:

?We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.? 

If I had to pick a president that most closely fits my beliefs it would have to be Jefferson.  With this said it is he would have to be without a doubt my best president hands down.

2. George Washington

The fact that he was elected the first president you?d have to admire the guts that he had by putting his neck on the line the way he did.  His strict interpretation of the constitution was amazing.

3. Ronald Reagan

I liked Reagan for the mere common sense the man used, especially in the 1982 PATCO strikes.  He didn?t fuck around with whose feelings would get hurt rather what is right for the country.  His drastic tax cuts gave Clinton the economy he rode on until Clinton?s own economic policies destroyed it.  He was a real man.

4. Andrew Jackson

I like Andrew Jackson, because as a president he was very similar, in his beliefs as Thomas Jefferson was.  They both have been called the ?common man??and I like that..they did differ on who should be running the country but they had more similarities than differences.

5. Any one of the first 15 (pre civil war) presidents

The reason I don?t have a 5th favorite is because after these presidents the constitution was violated quite often and the constitution became a living document where both democrates and republicans represented the same ideals just at different paces.

when i get more time i'll post my 5 worst presidents...clinton my have a shot. :wink:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #494958 - 12/18/01 05:12 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Andrew Jackson was a horrible president. He had no clue what he was doing and while he was running shit, the entire US economy almost completely failed, and if that had happened in the earlier 19th century we would have been taken over by the brits or somebody else. Andrew Jackson, and George Washington, have almost no notable achievements, and a long list of fuck ups. George was the first and almost every political theorist will tell you his is a shining example of why you don't elect a war hero as your president.

When it comes to what makes a good president, it is not what they say or the type of personality they have or whether or not they sleep with anyone. It all boils down to what gets done while they are in office and how much they lie to the American public about what they do in secret.

By this standard Reagan is the shittiest president of recent memory. He fucked up the economy with Reaganomics, which Clinton was able to help us recover from, but now Bush is screwing up the economy again. Reagan supported so many totalitarian despots in foreign countries that ended up slaughtering their own citizens, he might as well have started bombing third world countries himself. Not to mention the fact that he came up with the war on drugs all his own, which you'd think shroomerites would be against. If it weren't for Reagan, you wouldn't get ten years in jail for marijuana posession.

I think the best president was FDR. He didn't lie to people, started a bunch of good federal programs such as social security, got us through and out of the depression, and won WWII for us. Not too shabby. I've never heard of anything FDR did that ever seemed shady.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #494960 - 12/18/01 05:14 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

8 years of inflation does not = a prosporous economy.
The thing started to collapse toward the end of Clinton's second term or don't you remember that?

But somehow team Gore/Lieberman would have kept the good times rolling, when mastermind Bill Clinton couldn't even do it.

Do you think this war would have been fought by Gore? He can't even land a job let alone run a country.


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InvisiblePGF
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495012 - 12/18/01 05:57 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

The thing started to collapse toward the end of Clinton's second term or don't you remember that?


nope. I remember a strong economy that fell apart when this little no brained dork took office. Wait till unempoyment tops out at 15% or something and we'll see how well you like this moron then.

Gore would've done fine with this war thing. But we can not prove that can we. Your president is a moron and it makes you mad, i understand, relax and breathe deep....he'll be gonme in four years after he wrecks this nation.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger


Edited by PGF (12/18/01 05:57 PM)


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OfflineJammer
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495018 - 12/18/01 06:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

CLINTON CLINTON CLINTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(like I ever gave a fuck about his sex life)


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>>Jammer>>


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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495019 - 12/18/01 06:02 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Jefferson was so great that I'm sure you'll agree with everything he wrote here. Aren't these sort of similiar to the feelings that Hitler had on race? People only remember what they want about people they think are great.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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OfflineJammer
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #495021 - 12/18/01 06:04 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

How about Millard Filmore our 13th president? -> His wife pushed the issue of getting running water in the White House!

Whoo-Hoo!


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>>Jammer>>


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #495074 - 12/18/01 07:02 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Bush hasn't passed any economic policies yet, but somehow it's his fault that the economy fell. All this while the stock market experienced the sharpest drop in history under Clinton.

Here's what happened. Clinton took all of the money out of national defense and gave it to libbie programs like the welfare state and education. All the poor people found themselves with a lot of exrra money and didn't know what to do with it,so they turned to the stock market and inflated the shit out of it. Every .com company on Nazdeq was suddenly worth miliions, but they couldn't do anything with the money. So, they collapsed and now it's up to Bush to pick up the pieces.

Jefferson's original draft of the constitution had an anti-slavery clause. So fuck y'all.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495128 - 12/18/01 08:10 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Clinton wasnt the problem for the economy, we are in the midst of a recession because of the cyclic nature of how money flows Clinton did good for the national debt than any other president.

Regan was a great president in the fact that he was good at fighting war, making policy and keeping the books in tact. He may have seemed to be doing nothing but thats just because he was busy keeping us all happy. The national debt stayed the same durring the Regan administration

And Georgie bush... Well we cant blame him... the events of September 11th forced him to make some decisions that are going to ruin our economy because of this soon to be 40 billion dollar war we are going to fight.. Unless GWB gets another term we will never know the potential he has as president. We will fall into a deep recession during his term and it will stay that way till the next term. the national debt will double in his stay because of war and he will be doing the right thing...

As for best president I like Clintion.. He did the most for college students by making loans more accessable and got our country out of more trouble than any of the 5 last presidents did together.
Plus he is a really good speaker and thats wheat a president should be.. someone who can sell himself and make us all feel at ease with his words...


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GabbaDj

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OfflineJammer
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495163 - 12/18/01 08:36 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

All for God's sake.

Clinton would of EASILY of gotten re-elected if it wasnt for term limatations (that law was pushed by angry Republicians after the FDR ara) that the Republicians favor so much. Under Clinton we prospered with the most awesome economy that this country has ever seen. Bush Sr. lost his job because, as the sloging was dureing that election: "IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!" (and Bush Sr. kept trying to keep the focus on the Gulf War, but it didnt matter due to the lay-offs)

Why is it that we get into war everytime a Republician gets in charge? Why is it that me and all of my friends have a harder time finding a job when the republicians are in charge?

As far as Clinton takeing money from the military to support welfare.... WHAA???????????? Clinton stoped a ton of wellfare abuse... and he supported curbing it. Case in point: It became popular for welfare abusers to get there kids medicaly declared hyper active (and then get free Ridlin) which resulted in a disability check from the goverment.... CLINTON SUPPORTED THE US SUPREME'S COURT DECESION ON THIS. The miliatary was reduced 'cuz we didnt have a fucking reason to keep paying billions of dollors for "Bubba" to polish his gun all day long over-seas. Shesh.

This should not even be a debate. People will vote there "pocket-book" no matter what. If your unemployed your unemployed. We now have tens of thousands of lay-offs being anounced every week or so. We didnt hear of nearly as many lay-offs under Clinton, the employers were BEGGING FOR HELP....... but not now.

Now unemployment is the HIGHEST that is has been since around 1991 (rember this time period? About the time Bush Sr. got kicked out and Clinton got in!). It's bad enough that the federal interest rate for the money the goverment loans the banks (prime interest rate)is at almost 0% interest! Shesh, it was waaaay better under Clinton.



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>>Jammer>>


Edited by Jammer (12/18/01 09:49 PM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #495197 - 12/18/01 09:11 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

***Andrew Jackson was a horrible president. He had no clue what he was doing and while he was running shit, the entire US economy almost completely failed***

Huh?..where did you find that information?

****and if that had happened in the earlier 19th century we would have been taken over by the brits or somebody else***

Speculation eh?

****Andrew Jackson, and George Washington, have almost no notable achievements, and a long list of fuck ups***

Well what are their fuck-ups?? Feel free to list them on your worst presidents list...wait you don't have a list..why?

****It all boils down to what gets done while they are in office ****

Please explain to me what exactly has to get done and what do you use to base what makes a president succesful? It's not enough to say he sucked and he had a lot of fuck-ups and expect me to concur without telling me what made him so bad.

****and how much they lie to the American public about what they do in secret. ****

Bitter eh?

****By this standard Reagan is the shittiest president of recent memory. He fucked up the economy with Reaganomics****

sorry reganomics was what made clinton look so good..in my opinion trickle down economics works quit nicely

****which Clinton was able to help us recover from****

If you answer any of my requests please make it this next one. Name the economic policy that clinton used to improve the economy...this i gotta hear

****Reagan supported so many totalitarian despots in foreign countries that ended up slaughtering their own citizens, he might as well have started bombing third world countries himself. ****

Kinda like Klinton?

****Not to mention the fact that he came up with the war on drugs all his own, which you'd think shroomerites would be against. ****

Who said you have to agree with everything a president does? I agree the WOD is a joke...BTW what did Klinton do to stop the WOD?..hhmmm?

****I think the best president was FDR. He didn't lie to people***

ha ha..seriously..the new deal was nothing but a lie...he violated the constitution probably more than any other president out there...FDR was a great leader in war..but not a president.

****got us through and out of the depression, ****

The depression was still alive for until 8 years into his presidentcy....slow down take your time. I do like social security, however it's extremely outdated and depends on the youth to take care of the retired...what happens if the retired out weigh the youth?...like right now. Let me invest my money, i can make a hell of a lot more putting it into a simple CD or bond than the governments meager 2% (which means your losing money BTW)

***and won WWII for us***

I'm afraid to say it but FDR did not win the war for us..the American soldiers did

***Not too shabby. I've never heard of anything FDR did that ever seemed shady. ****

Then you might want to dig a little deeper

I really want to see your list feel free to make one.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #495206 - 12/18/01 09:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

****nope. I remember a strong economy that fell apart when this little no brained dork took office Wait till unempoyment tops out at 15% or something and we'll see how well you like this moron then. ***

The economy took a nose dive the same time that Klinton went on a vendeta to destroy Microsoft.  Do a search on the dow jones and you can trace each court hearing that involved microsoft the dow followed the decisions.  For microsoft, the dow went up, for Klinton, the dow went down.  Actually the economy was faltering 2 1/2 years into Klintons final term.  The dow doesn't lie.  Besides no president can effect the economy the second they step into the office because they haven't passed any economic policies (which take months to years to activate).

****he'll be gonme in four years after he wrecks this nation****

Now relax this is a friendly question :smile: Who's gonna beat him? Daschell, Gephart, McKain?



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (12/19/01 08:33 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #495214 - 12/18/01 09:23 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Unfortunatly slavery was a way of life. So to compare hitler to jefferson cannot be done. We realize that slavery was bad today but during the time of the founding fathers slavery was an acceptable practice not just in this country but in Asia, Britian, Africa, Europe, and yes the United states and South america.

****People only remember what they want about people they think are great. ****

Feel free to give me your list if you can


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495576 - 12/19/01 03:40 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

My comment about Hitler and Jefferson, was not ment to insinuate that Hitler and Jefferson were the same. They were far from it, however, in the piece that I posted a link for, Jefferson claims that the only way to ever settle the race issue is if one race destroys another. Was this not Hitler's eventual goal? As far as the founding fathers finding slavery acceptable, sure although Adams didn't support it. Neither did Thomas Paine. My problem is less with the slavery aspect than the fact that he considered blacks to be an inferior race(as did Washington). Any man that spouts equality of all men and then considers another race to be sub-human(a stance clearly taken by Hitler) leaves much to be desired. This is not because Jefferson was close minded, he states that the natives of the US are equal, just less advanced than whites(Washington thought they were inferior). I also have a problem with the fact that if you go back and read through English Bill of Rights, Hume, Montesquieu, Rosseau, and Locke. You can find nearly word for word quotes that are part of the Constitution(I'd say 3/4) and Decleration of Independence. He invented some cool stuff, I'm pleased with the Louisana Purchase(general expansion of America), the Lois and Clark expedition, creation of UVA, he did lots of things... but he was like everyone else, simply a man. As for my list... well I haven't really liked any one President, I've liked some things that some Presidents have done.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495583 - 12/19/01 03:48 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Blind fucking Clinton lovers.

We didn't need defense? Tell that to the families of the people who died while he went to Israel for photo ops.. Clinton was all about welfare. Don't you remember that goddamn economic package he sent through Congress? No, all Clinton fans can remember is that he got some play in the Oval Office.


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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495591 - 12/19/01 03:58 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Are we talking about this rough draft? And the section that condemns the transportation of slaves? It was orginally written in his notes in 1776, as seen here. I'll agree with you that Jefferson wanted to end the slave trade from Africa. He introduced legislation to do so in the state of Virginia. BTW the article I posted was from 1781... five years after. Now it seems funny that you seem to think that Jefferson's opposition to the slave trade 5 years before he wrote that he supported slavery. Now let's think about this why did Jefferson oppose the slave trade. Was it because he didn't like slavery? Ummm... no I don't think so since he clearly states he believes blacks are an inferior race. Is it because the number of blacks was far greater than the number of whites in Virginia? Is it because there had been several revolts by slaves in the West Indies where large number of whites were killed? I generally think this is the main reason, fear. I'll concede that Jefferson did agree to free his slaves if a colony in Africa was started and his slaves would move there. If he was that opposed to slavery, why did he own slaves? Why didn't he set his slaves free and start paying them a decent salery? Why did he own a huge plantation that needed so many slaves? Who do you think kept up his extensive gardens and crops?


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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