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Who is your favorite President and why?
    #494758 -

Explain why if you can...i'm curious what makes a great president. I know what makes a great president in my mind but it would be interesting to what others think makes a president great, good, lousy and just plain pathetic. If you can list 5 or so presidents from best to worst.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (12/18/01 11:22 AM)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #494799 -

I can only go with president's of my lifetime. I haven't studied past presidents much at all.

I think Carter was the best person we've had as a president, but being a good person does not make you a good president, right? He was a pretty ineffective president.

I guess the worse would have to be the one we have now. Bush Jr., is a pathetic speaker and has a weak presence.

Next to Jr., on the pathetic meter would be Reagan. The guy was comatose in office. A fucking shadow of a man. This was the man who when in office in Cali called oiut the national gaurd on the "nigger" (his word) menace. How he made it to the whitey's house, I'll never know.

Nixon was not all that bad except he was monomaniacal and a liar. Bush Sr.,was involved in the iran arms thing and was also a liar. Plus Bush Sr., was ex-CIA and was generally an evil person.

Kennedy was a great man and president in my opinion. But he was before my time. Since I've been alive, I think Clinton has been the best president we've had. He had a powerful presence. He's a very smart man (unlike Jr.) and he made some good decisions.

The Reagan's and bushes of this world always destroy our economy and fuck put the nation in turmoil for their 4-8 years. I hope to God this Jr., is outsted after 4.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #494880 -

How can you, a relatively intelligent person, say that Clinton was a good president.

Good decisions?

Which ones are those, selling secrets to China or bombing a pharmacutical plant in Afghanistan?

Nixon was a nazi.

Reagan was a good president. He was balls out.

Bush Sr had no balls.

Bush Jr doesn't have balls but he does what he's told and the people doing the telling have balls of rock.
Bush Jr. is very charismatic. He has an endearing quality.

But pleease tell me what "good" decisions Clinton made.
Kennedy was probably the last truely great president. I'll agree with that.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #494917 -

Hey, don't start with the pharmaceutical plant bombing BS. There is reason to believe the plant was not really a pharmaceutical plant. Do you think they hang "chemical weapons plant" signs on the buildings where chem weapons are made? Of course not. During the Gulf War, under Bush, Iraq claimed we bombed a baby food plant. Wether or not these two incidents were mistaken bombings of non-military targets is irrelevant.

Clinton's policies kept America rolling in the good times. Gore and Lieberman would've kept the economy rolling and now we have this putz, Bush Jr., who can barely tie his shoes and the economy is worse than it's been in 8 years.

Bush Jr. is very charismatic. He has an endearing quality.


Surely you are joking, unless you are referring to the kind of endearing quality a dumb cocker spaniel has............


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #494940 -

1.Thomas Jefferson

In addition to being one of the founders I like him the best for his ability to lead within the context of the Constitution.  He said the following:

?We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.? 

If I had to pick a president that most closely fits my beliefs it would have to be Jefferson.  With this said it is he would have to be without a doubt my best president hands down.

2. George Washington

The fact that he was elected the first president you?d have to admire the guts that he had by putting his neck on the line the way he did.  His strict interpretation of the constitution was amazing.

3. Ronald Reagan

I liked Reagan for the mere common sense the man used, especially in the 1982 PATCO strikes.  He didn?t fuck around with whose feelings would get hurt rather what is right for the country.  His drastic tax cuts gave Clinton the economy he rode on until Clinton?s own economic policies destroyed it.  He was a real man.

4. Andrew Jackson

I like Andrew Jackson, because as a president he was very similar, in his beliefs as Thomas Jefferson was.  They both have been called the ?common man??and I like that..they did differ on who should be running the country but they had more similarities than differences.

5. Any one of the first 15 (pre civil war) presidents

The reason I don?t have a 5th favorite is because after these presidents the constitution was violated quite often and the constitution became a living document where both democrates and republicans represented the same ideals just at different paces.

when i get more time i'll post my 5 worst presidents...clinton my have a shot. :wink:


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #494958 -

Andrew Jackson was a horrible president. He had no clue what he was doing and while he was running shit, the entire US economy almost completely failed, and if that had happened in the earlier 19th century we would have been taken over by the brits or somebody else. Andrew Jackson, and George Washington, have almost no notable achievements, and a long list of fuck ups. George was the first and almost every political theorist will tell you his is a shining example of why you don't elect a war hero as your president.

When it comes to what makes a good president, it is not what they say or the type of personality they have or whether or not they sleep with anyone. It all boils down to what gets done while they are in office and how much they lie to the American public about what they do in secret.

By this standard Reagan is the shittiest president of recent memory. He fucked up the economy with Reaganomics, which Clinton was able to help us recover from, but now Bush is screwing up the economy again. Reagan supported so many totalitarian despots in foreign countries that ended up slaughtering their own citizens, he might as well have started bombing third world countries himself. Not to mention the fact that he came up with the war on drugs all his own, which you'd think shroomerites would be against. If it weren't for Reagan, you wouldn't get ten years in jail for marijuana posession.

I think the best president was FDR. He didn't lie to people, started a bunch of good federal programs such as social security, got us through and out of the depression, and won WWII for us. Not too shabby. I've never heard of anything FDR did that ever seemed shady.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #494960 -

8 years of inflation does not = a prosporous economy.
The thing started to collapse toward the end of Clinton's second term or don't you remember that?

But somehow team Gore/Lieberman would have kept the good times rolling, when mastermind Bill Clinton couldn't even do it.

Do you think this war would have been fought by Gore? He can't even land a job let alone run a country.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495012 -

The thing started to collapse toward the end of Clinton's second term or don't you remember that?


nope. I remember a strong economy that fell apart when this little no brained dork took office. Wait till unempoyment tops out at 15% or something and we'll see how well you like this moron then.

Gore would've done fine with this war thing. But we can not prove that can we. Your president is a moron and it makes you mad, i understand, relax and breathe deep....he'll be gonme in four years after he wrecks this nation.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

Edited by PGF (12/18/01 03:57 PM)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495018 -

CLINTON CLINTON CLINTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(like I ever gave a fuck about his sex life)


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>>Jammer>>

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495019 -

Jefferson was so great that I'm sure you'll agree with everything he wrote here. Aren't these sort of similiar to the feelings that Hitler had on race? People only remember what they want about people they think are great.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #495021 -

How about Millard Filmore our 13th president? -> His wife pushed the issue of getting running water in the White House!

Whoo-Hoo!


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>>Jammer>>

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #495074 -

Bush hasn't passed any economic policies yet, but somehow it's his fault that the economy fell. All this while the stock market experienced the sharpest drop in history under Clinton.

Here's what happened. Clinton took all of the money out of national defense and gave it to libbie programs like the welfare state and education. All the poor people found themselves with a lot of exrra money and didn't know what to do with it,so they turned to the stock market and inflated the shit out of it. Every .com company on Nazdeq was suddenly worth miliions, but they couldn't do anything with the money. So, they collapsed and now it's up to Bush to pick up the pieces.

Jefferson's original draft of the constitution had an anti-slavery clause. So fuck y'all.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495128 -

Clinton wasnt the problem for the economy, we are in the midst of a recession because of the cyclic nature of how money flows Clinton did good for the national debt than any other president.

Regan was a great president in the fact that he was good at fighting war, making policy and keeping the books in tact. He may have seemed to be doing nothing but thats just because he was busy keeping us all happy. The national debt stayed the same durring the Regan administration

And Georgie bush... Well we cant blame him... the events of September 11th forced him to make some decisions that are going to ruin our economy because of this soon to be 40 billion dollar war we are going to fight.. Unless GWB gets another term we will never know the potential he has as president. We will fall into a deep recession during his term and it will stay that way till the next term. the national debt will double in his stay because of war and he will be doing the right thing...

As for best president I like Clintion.. He did the most for college students by making loans more accessable and got our country out of more trouble than any of the 5 last presidents did together.
Plus he is a really good speaker and thats wheat a president should be.. someone who can sell himself and make us all feel at ease with his words...


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495163 -

All for God's sake.

Clinton would of EASILY of gotten re-elected if it wasnt for term limatations (that law was pushed by angry Republicians after the FDR ara) that the Republicians favor so much. Under Clinton we prospered with the most awesome economy that this country has ever seen. Bush Sr. lost his job because, as the sloging was dureing that election: "IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!" (and Bush Sr. kept trying to keep the focus on the Gulf War, but it didnt matter due to the lay-offs)

Why is it that we get into war everytime a Republician gets in charge? Why is it that me and all of my friends have a harder time finding a job when the republicians are in charge?

As far as Clinton takeing money from the military to support welfare.... WHAA???????????? Clinton stoped a ton of wellfare abuse... and he supported curbing it. Case in point: It became popular for welfare abusers to get there kids medicaly declared hyper active (and then get free Ridlin) which resulted in a disability check from the goverment.... CLINTON SUPPORTED THE US SUPREME'S COURT DECESION ON THIS. The miliatary was reduced 'cuz we didnt have a fucking reason to keep paying billions of dollors for "Bubba" to polish his gun all day long over-seas. Shesh.

This should not even be a debate. People will vote there "pocket-book" no matter what. If your unemployed your unemployed. We now have tens of thousands of lay-offs being anounced every week or so. We didnt hear of nearly as many lay-offs under Clinton, the employers were BEGGING FOR HELP....... but not now.

Now unemployment is the HIGHEST that is has been since around 1991 (rember this time period? About the time Bush Sr. got kicked out and Clinton got in!). It's bad enough that the federal interest rate for the money the goverment loans the banks (prime interest rate)is at almost 0% interest! Shesh, it was waaaay better under Clinton.



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>>Jammer>>

Edited by Jammer (12/18/01 07:49 PM)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #495197 -

***Andrew Jackson was a horrible president. He had no clue what he was doing and while he was running shit, the entire US economy almost completely failed***

Huh?..where did you find that information?

****and if that had happened in the earlier 19th century we would have been taken over by the brits or somebody else***

Speculation eh?

****Andrew Jackson, and George Washington, have almost no notable achievements, and a long list of fuck ups***

Well what are their fuck-ups?? Feel free to list them on your worst presidents list...wait you don't have a list..why?

****It all boils down to what gets done while they are in office ****

Please explain to me what exactly has to get done and what do you use to base what makes a president succesful? It's not enough to say he sucked and he had a lot of fuck-ups and expect me to concur without telling me what made him so bad.

****and how much they lie to the American public about what they do in secret. ****

Bitter eh?

****By this standard Reagan is the shittiest president of recent memory. He fucked up the economy with Reaganomics****

sorry reganomics was what made clinton look so good..in my opinion trickle down economics works quit nicely

****which Clinton was able to help us recover from****

If you answer any of my requests please make it this next one. Name the economic policy that clinton used to improve the economy...this i gotta hear

****Reagan supported so many totalitarian despots in foreign countries that ended up slaughtering their own citizens, he might as well have started bombing third world countries himself. ****

Kinda like Klinton?

****Not to mention the fact that he came up with the war on drugs all his own, which you'd think shroomerites would be against. ****

Who said you have to agree with everything a president does? I agree the WOD is a joke...BTW what did Klinton do to stop the WOD?..hhmmm?

****I think the best president was FDR. He didn't lie to people***

ha ha..seriously..the new deal was nothing but a lie...he violated the constitution probably more than any other president out there...FDR was a great leader in war..but not a president.

****got us through and out of the depression, ****

The depression was still alive for until 8 years into his presidentcy....slow down take your time. I do like social security, however it's extremely outdated and depends on the youth to take care of the retired...what happens if the retired out weigh the youth?...like right now. Let me invest my money, i can make a hell of a lot more putting it into a simple CD or bond than the governments meager 2% (which means your losing money BTW)

***and won WWII for us***

I'm afraid to say it but FDR did not win the war for us..the American soldiers did

***Not too shabby. I've never heard of anything FDR did that ever seemed shady. ****

Then you might want to dig a little deeper

I really want to see your list feel free to make one.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #495206 -

****nope. I remember a strong economy that fell apart when this little no brained dork took office Wait till unempoyment tops out at 15% or something and we'll see how well you like this moron then. ***

The economy took a nose dive the same time that Klinton went on a vendeta to destroy Microsoft.  Do a search on the dow jones and you can trace each court hearing that involved microsoft the dow followed the decisions.  For microsoft, the dow went up, for Klinton, the dow went down.  Actually the economy was faltering 2 1/2 years into Klintons final term.  The dow doesn't lie.  Besides no president can effect the economy the second they step into the office because they haven't passed any economic policies (which take months to years to activate).

****he'll be gonme in four years after he wrecks this nation****

Now relax this is a friendly question :smile: Who's gonna beat him? Daschell, Gephart, McKain?



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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (12/19/01 06:33 AM)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #495214 -

Unfortunatly slavery was a way of life. So to compare hitler to jefferson cannot be done. We realize that slavery was bad today but during the time of the founding fathers slavery was an acceptable practice not just in this country but in Asia, Britian, Africa, Europe, and yes the United states and South america.

****People only remember what they want about people they think are great. ****

Feel free to give me your list if you can


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495576 -

My comment about Hitler and Jefferson, was not ment to insinuate that Hitler and Jefferson were the same. They were far from it, however, in the piece that I posted a link for, Jefferson claims that the only way to ever settle the race issue is if one race destroys another. Was this not Hitler's eventual goal? As far as the founding fathers finding slavery acceptable, sure although Adams didn't support it. Neither did Thomas Paine. My problem is less with the slavery aspect than the fact that he considered blacks to be an inferior race(as did Washington). Any man that spouts equality of all men and then considers another race to be sub-human(a stance clearly taken by Hitler) leaves much to be desired. This is not because Jefferson was close minded, he states that the natives of the US are equal, just less advanced than whites(Washington thought they were inferior). I also have a problem with the fact that if you go back and read through English Bill of Rights, Hume, Montesquieu, Rosseau, and Locke. You can find nearly word for word quotes that are part of the Constitution(I'd say 3/4) and Decleration of Independence. He invented some cool stuff, I'm pleased with the Louisana Purchase(general expansion of America), the Lois and Clark expedition, creation of UVA, he did lots of things... but he was like everyone else, simply a man. As for my list... well I haven't really liked any one President, I've liked some things that some Presidents have done.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495583 -

Blind fucking Clinton lovers.

We didn't need defense? Tell that to the families of the people who died while he went to Israel for photo ops.. Clinton was all about welfare. Don't you remember that goddamn economic package he sent through Congress? No, all Clinton fans can remember is that he got some play in the Oval Office.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495591 -

Are we talking about this rough draft? And the section that condemns the transportation of slaves? It was orginally written in his notes in 1776, as seen here. I'll agree with you that Jefferson wanted to end the slave trade from Africa. He introduced legislation to do so in the state of Virginia. BTW the article I posted was from 1781... five years after. Now it seems funny that you seem to think that Jefferson's opposition to the slave trade 5 years before he wrote that he supported slavery. Now let's think about this why did Jefferson oppose the slave trade. Was it because he didn't like slavery? Ummm... no I don't think so since he clearly states he believes blacks are an inferior race. Is it because the number of blacks was far greater than the number of whites in Virginia? Is it because there had been several revolts by slaves in the West Indies where large number of whites were killed? I generally think this is the main reason, fear. I'll concede that Jefferson did agree to free his slaves if a colony in Africa was started and his slaves would move there. If he was that opposed to slavery, why did he own slaves? Why didn't he set his slaves free and start paying them a decent salery? Why did he own a huge plantation that needed so many slaves? Who do you think kept up his extensive gardens and crops?


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495733 -

Doob, calm down. Clinton reduced national debt and america prospered under his leadership. It's fact.

You should stop listening to Rush Limburger and open your mind. Rush just pushes propaganda for the Republican Nazi party. Bush is a fool and everyone knows and excepts this except for the misinformed or poorly educated. You'll see. Soon the unemployment will hit 25% and the the streets will be filled with people standing in bread lines. It is inevitable, Bush Jr. running shit, is like Elmer Fudd running shit. "be very very quiet, I'm hunting for my bwain". I doubt OSB would've bombed the trade centers if there was a smarter man in office. (-;


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495755 -

Jefferson completely overstepped the bounds of the constitution with the Louisiana Purchase. Washington allowed Sec of Treasury Hamilton to overstep the consititution in creating the Bank of the United States. The constitution, in practice, has been a living document since its inception.

Jackson did do a couple of grand things: he eliminated the Bank of the United States (replacing it with a system of pet banks which was no better, but paved the way for our current Fed Reserve). Jackson's Specie Circular policy on purchasing public western lands was brilliant. Jacksons first seven years were great, on the surface. But his poor economic policies caught up with him near the end of his second term and the economy began failing. Under his hand picked predecessor, Van Buren, we experienced the Panic of 1837 and a pretty harsh depression, which cost Van Buren his reelection bid.

Say what you want about his morals, but as a leader for the country Clinton is one of the better presidents we've had.

I'm not certain if Bush has firmly placed and economic policy yet. Regardless, he is (at least partially) to blame for our economic recession-- the people and corporations don't have faith in him as a leader. Thats evident in the way the DOW index reacted after the initial election and after Bush was declared the victor. Its been downhill since. Jr has no place running a hot dog stand, let alone the free world. He cannot speak, he has no charisma, he is not intelligent by any stretch of the imagination, he caters to his corporate backers more so than any president of recent memory. A pin I saw the other day sums it up. A picture of Bush with the caption: Like a Rock
Only Dumber

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #495785 -

The national debt...

The national debt is an economic tool used to control the economy. Guess what reducing it does? It creates inflation. The repricussions of which are being seen now.

Why do you think real estate was so ridiculously outpriced a year ago? Take a guess. INFLATION.

Yeah, we all had a nice little party over the past eight years. Now it's time to clean up.

Um, Osama did bomb the WTC when Clinton was in office, but I guess you don't remember that.

Remember what Clinton did about it? Oh yeah, not a goddamn thing.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495816 -

Yeah, but the bombing in Clinton's time was a failure and the offenders were brought to justice swiftly. Bush is taking his time and they succeeded under Bush. Plus, I read that Bush Jr., was seen fucking a dog while he was in office in Texas. Also, Bush Jr., was seen fondling the genitalia of small boys at a daycare he ran in his office. Apparently this man is not just dumb, he is a pedophile bestiologist.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ]
    #495849 -

****Jefferson completely overstepped the bounds of the constitution with the Louisiana Purchase****

Remember that their was nothing in the constitution that said that he couldn't use public money..this point is debatable

****Washington allowed Sec of Treasury Hamilton to overstep the consititution in creating the Bank of the United States. ****

how was this unconstitutional?

***The constitution, in practice, has been a living document since its inception****

A living document is useless...do you want to play poker with living rules and constraints?

****But his poor economic policies caught up with him near the end of his second term and the economy began failing****

I beg to differ...however he was suffering from turbercucalosis (sp) in his final term

****Say what you want about his morals, but as a leader for the country Clinton is one of the better presidents we've had***

Actually his morals were the last think i think of when i say he was a lousy president. His economic polocies are bearing their ugly head in today's economy, i'm still wondering what his economic polocies were. As a leader he sold secrets to a hostile regime and failed to do anything about terrorism..i'd say he was to busy building his legacy and the great thing is that he has done just that...being useless.

***I'm not certain if Bush has firmly placed and economic policy yet. Regardless, he is (at least partially) to blame for our economic recession***

How cabn he?..you just said that he doesn't have an economic policy set yet.

****the people and corporations don't have faith in him as a leader***

wow now the polls don't tell the truth? seems to me he's up there pretty high in the polls right now..higher than Klinton.

****Thats evident in the way the DOW index reacted after the initial election and after Bush was declared the victor****

The DOW was falling due to the witch hunt on microsoft...go back and look at the facts



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #495853 -

****Yeah, but the bombing in Clinton's time was a failure and the offenders were brought to justice swiftly. ****

if you call years swiftly

****Bush is taking his time and they succeeded under Bush.***

It's been just over 3 months what are you expecting? instant gratification?

****I read that Bush Jr., was seen fucking a dog while he was in office in Texas. Also, Bush Jr., was seen fondling the genitalia of small boys at a daycare he ran in his office. Apparently this man is not just dumb, he is a pedophile bestiologist****

HA HA HA.....the dog was hillary and the child was chelsea


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #495856 -

We may not agree on much but at least you are the only one who listed the presidents you like and dislike. There are many here that don't know why they like or hate any particular president...let alone their accomplishments.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #495867 -

Ok, first of all, Jefferson's stance on slavery was fairly liberal for the time. But, he was smart enough to realize that freeing all the slaves and letting them into society would not work. He personally may have been able to look past his prejudices (which he did for at least a little while, while he was gettin' it on with his slaves...), but he realized that the majority of the population would not. Therefore he only favored freedom of slaves if they could have a place to go. He simply didn't think that our society would function if there were two races in it, and he didn't want to see the violence that would result.

As for why he kept up his plantation and his crops? That was his basic theory of the republic. The farmer is the "bone and sinew of the republic", he said, so it only makes sense that he would be a farmer.

On the issue of modern presidents and our current economic situation, I don't really know a whole lot about what's going on now...however I will say that in the past, when one president gets shafted for causing some kind of decline in the economy, it generally isn't their fault, but the president before them. Someone already mentioned the Panic of 1837, which caused a massive decline in popularity for Van Buren, resulting in him not getting reelected. But it wasn't Van Buren's fault at all, it was all a result of Jackon's Specie Circular, his pet banks, and his other economic policies.

Anyway, without knowing too many of the specifics of modern day economic policies or lack thereof, I would say that the likely chain of events goes something like this: The economy sucks and then Bush Sr. comes into office, he manages to help repair it, and with a few finishing touches from Clinton, it's doing great. So now everyone thinks Clinton fixed the economy. Then Clinton manages to fuck things up, but we don't see the results of his fuckups until now, with Bush Jr. in office. Again, I don't know any specifics, so I could be completely and totally off base here, it just seems like from what others have said, that that is a likely scenario. It does seem funny to me that people could blame Bush for the recent problems with the economy if he hasn't even done anything to it yet...


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Remember I'll always love you as I claw your fucking throat away. It will end no other way.
-Tool

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ]
    #495885 -

>> Say what you want about his morals, but as a leader for the country Clinton is one of the better presidents we've had.

I really want to know what Clinton did while he was in office. I mean he was sitting on the most prosporous time in American history. Did he paint a new vision for the future of the world that the US could lead? I didn't see it if he did. Did he get a health care plan passed as he had promised? No, Gore ran on the exact same thing. About the only thing that I saw ol' Clinton doing was sitting on his ass. Did he have a true foriegn policy? No, he just kept trying to force reluctant parties to meet and discuss peace. He also seldom accomplished what he wanted to with his lackluster policy in Africa, Latin America(other than NAFTA, but that's just Mexico and not the whole of Latin America), and most of the Asian continent. What about fixing the broken social security program? Nothing. Global warming? Nothing... although we did sign the absurd Kyototo Treaty(yeah, you third world countries you keep polluting all you want). As well as the fact that he made it nearly impossible for any sort of controled burns to happen in national forests(if there are no roads and no tree removal... how can you have controled burns?), this will eventually come back and bite him in the ass. You can say it's the economy all you want, but if you ask me I'll put my faith in the real people that ran the economy. Who you may ask: Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan and Secretary of Treasury, Robert Rubin.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: feign]
    #495893 -

>> Ok, first of all, Jefferson's stance on slavery was fairly liberal for the time.

I'll agree that his belief was somewhat liberal. Fairly liberal would have been the stance taken by John Adams and Thomas Paine. I still say that this statement from someone that advanced the idea of equality proves that he did not believe such, "I advance it therefore as a suspicion only, that the blacks, whether originally a distinct race, or made distinct by time and circumstances, are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind." And as I said earlier, not so much the slavery issue that bothers me as quotes like the above claiming the inferiority of one race over another.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495944 -

Yeah i am just ribbing Doobie now. It's all in good fun. I do know how to follow directions and I pride myself on being the only one to answer your question correctly. I want some gold stars out of the deal.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #495957 -

The first bombing of the WTC was a failure? The bomb exploded did it not? People died did they not? Do you think that the intent of the bombing was to bring both buildings down in some kind of domino effect? I think the results were pretty much what was planned.

And what about the embassies?
And the Cole?

Clinton got the people responsible? Bin laden was still walking around a free man.

You claim that I am blindly following a Nazi party, but look at your arguments. Clinton through eight years set up an economy that totally fell apart the day he stole the 'w' keys from the white house computers and pardoned spies.

(That shows a lot of intelligence, doesn't it?)

Just like magic, the whole thing came crumbling down. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, that you conveniently don't remember.

You show me an article about a private organization set up by Democrat politicians, and blame the REPUBLICANS for their actions...

Come on now, man.



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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #496042 -

<<****Jefferson completely overstepped the bounds of the constitution with the Louisiana Purchase****

Remember that their was nothing in the constitution that said that he couldn't use public money..this point is debatable >>

Jefferson himslef believed his actions to be unconstitutional

<<****Washington allowed Sec of Treasury Hamilton to overstep the consititution in creating the Bank of the United States. ****

how was this unconstitutional? >>

Any power not expressly given to the federal gov. was given to the state. The Constitution did not give the federal gov the right to create a national bank. Thus, at least from a strict constructionist veiw, which i gather you hold, this would be unconstitutional

<<***The constitution, in practice, has been a living document since its inception****

A living document is useless...do you want to play poker with living rules and constraints? >>

Didn't say it was for better or worse... just the way it has been.

<<****But his poor economic policies caught up with him near the end of his second term and the economy began failing****

I beg to differ...however he was suffering from turbercucalosis (sp) in his final term >>

No, fact here. Inflation began to increase in the last months of his presidency as a result of the tariff passed under the Compromise of 1830. It had finally gotten too low (the Comp of 1830 was set on a gradual decline) to adequately protect New England merchants and the British were undercutting American manufacturers/merchants. The economy began to fail under Jackson, finally resulting in the Panic of 1837


<<****Say what you want about his morals, but as a leader for the country Clinton is one of the better presidents we've had***

Actually his morals were the last think i think of when i say he was a lousy president. His economic polocies are bearing their ugly head in today's economy, i'm still wondering what his economic polocies were. As a leader he sold secrets to a hostile regime and failed to do anything about terrorism..i'd say he was to busy building his legacy and the great thing is that he has done just that...being useless. >>

His economic policies got us out of the recession we faced under Bush Sr and led us into eight of the most prosperous years this country has ever seen.

<<***I'm not certain if Bush has firmly placed and economic policy yet. Regardless, he is (at least partially) to blame for our economic recession***

How cabn he?..you just said that he doesn't have an economic policy set yet.

****the people and corporations don't have faith in him as a leader***

wow now the polls don't tell the truth? seems to me he's up there pretty high in the polls right now..higher than Klinton.

****Thats evident in the way the DOW index reacted after the initial election and after Bush was declared the victor****

The DOW was falling due to the witch hunt on microsoft...go back and look at the facts>>

The microsoft witchhunt had already taken its toll. Are you saying that is was pure coincidence that as soon as Dubya was announce the President Elect the stock markets plummeted? Approval rating polls seem to be in direct contradiction of the economy and the stock market... i believe its already been said here before, but people vote with their wallets...

My favorite President? JFK. Navigated possibly the most difficult time in the history of civilization (cuban missle crisis). That in and of itself is enough. Add the space program, relative economic prosperity, and his ability as a poised public speaker and you've got a damn good leader.

Ahh... just like old times. Arguing with innvertigo...




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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ]
    #496176 -

***Ahh... just like old times. Arguing with innvertigo... ****

C'mon..who's arguing..you taught me a little about jefferson that i didn't know..i'm actually quite pleased....i still like him however

****His economic policies got us out of the recession we faced under Bush Sr and led us into eight of the most prosperous years this country has ever seen. ****

So tell me..ah..what were his policies that brout us out of this "resession"?

YOU:
***I'm not certain if Bush has firmly placed and economic policy yet. Regardless, he is (at least partially) to blame for our economic recession***
ME:
How can he?..you just said that he doesn't have an economic policy set yet.

ME AGAIN:
I really want an answer to this if you can

****The microsoft witchhunt had already taken its toll. Are you saying that is was pure coincidence that as soon as Dubya was announce the President Elect the stock markets plummeted? ****

Look at the dow and when it started it's nose dive and compare it to when the microsoft rulings took place, i'm sure you'll be surprised to see that they are at the same time..about 2 1/2 - 3 years of Klinton's second term. When bush was elected it was already on it's way to the bottom...trust me there was a large drop in the economy as well from Oct 2000-Jan2001...if you want i can show you my 401K :)

****i believe its already been said here before, but people vote with their wallets*****

They did..they elected Bush

****My favorite President? JFK****

He's in my top 10 or 15


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ]
    #496805 -

Doobie, no one has faith in Jr., and that is THE reason the economy went sour as soon as he took office. Business got scared. Corporations fear his drooling nonsense and they fear the impact it may have on their normal functioning. As soon as he took office, normal people everywhere became scared. You could feel it in the air. The masses stopped buying stuff and tightenedup for a long, cold, not so prosperous 4 years of drooling idiot leadership. You can not actually believe this man is a good president!!!!!!! Youjust can't Doobie. Even invertigo admits that someone else is behind the curtain pulling the strings for this guy. He is pathetic. Deep down inside, you are more liberal than you let on to be.

Hey, go post and tell GG that you are to buy a t-shirt so he can get them made asap.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #496829 -

You liberals just don't know anything about economics. You really shouldn't be allowed to vote. You are all about insant gratification and have no longsightedness. I am tired of repeating myself in this thread. It is obvious that you guys will just listen to whatever the liberal media tells you. The masses truly are asses.

Your parties are all about compassion for the little guy. Poor little nig nog gets picked on in school. Give him a food stamp. Teach him to be dependant on the government and call it good economic policy. Who is really paying attention anyway? Certainly not the people that elected him.

Compassion for the little guy is weakness.This world is cut throat. Especially if you are the one holding all of the cards. Other people, countries don't like that so much and so you always have to watch your back. Selling secrets to China is not a good example of how to watch your back. But who's paying attention anyway? Certainly not the people that voted for him. They're too busy going to PETA meetings chanting "fur is murder" as if that issue somehow matters at all in any context.

Compassion is the people's responsibility. Protection is what the government is for.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #496855 -

The economy really fell on its face when Georgie took office becaue the American people have no faith When the Republicans are in office. The economy does well when The Democrats are in charge because people have faith. Republicans take care of the rich. Reaganomics did more to hurt the average middle class american than any president in history. He made some tax cuts but only for the rich. He covered his tax cuts by taking away tax credits from the middle class. i.e not being able to claim credit card intrest on your federal taxes. Not geing able to claim the intrest on mortages if it isn't your principal residence etc. they hurt the middle guy.


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fuck the government. and especially fuck the police

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #496878 -

Doobie, I hate a nignok welfare recipient as much as the next guy, but if you do not do a little something for them, they are just going to be ripping off your stereos and tvs to get their food and beer money. Then, you have to jail them and feed and clothe the thieving bastards for the rest of their lives as well as keep them in a furnished cell.

What do you propose?
regress to third world status and have areas of land outside the city where niknoks live in makeshift shacks?


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #496937 -

The economy is poor because thats the way things go... The president and Chairman of the Federal Reserve can do all they want to try and stableize things but the fact is that its just that time... We had a good long ride of positive economic growth, the lowering of the national deficite and the partial repayment of the national debt (which in fact has gone up every day for 200 years and has never actualy gone down a penny under any administration).

Now its just the nature of things.. What goes up must come down. We had one quarter of negative economic growth at the end of clintions term and we will have another at the beginning of Georgies because of September 11th. 2 Quarters of negative growth is what a recession is and we arent even their yet.

Things will go up again and people will be assured that our government is doing their job once more and whoever is president at that time will bask in the glory of high economic praise but it really isnt him doing it. Its just the way things go...


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #496955 -

I'd rather pay for a jail cell than a college tuition and food for Shanaqua's eight kids.



--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #496975 -

yeah but a jail cell is full payment and support plus they like being taken care of like that....goes back to slave days or something.

if we teach them the skills involved in dunking fries and send them to McDonald's U., then they might make some small contribution to our society.....


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #497011 -

Well if they like it, it's a win/win situation.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #497041 -

Bill Clinton


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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #497081 -

>> There are many here that don't know why they like or hate any particular president...let alone their accomplishments.

Ok, well I've thought about it... and I've found that my orginal answer was right, I don't really like any president that much. But just for fun, I'll give my "favorite" and state my reasons.

Nixon. I'm sure there will be plenty that will ask why. Well the simple answer is his forgien policy was one of the best of any presidents of all time and he supported making the federal government smaller, returning power to the states. Nixon helped open the Soviet Union and it was this opening that helped lead to the eventual downfall of the USSR. Having a greater relationship allowed citizens of the USSR to see more of the world, esp the US. While a cold war still existed, Nixon got the ABM treaty in and allowed for a greater calm between the USSR and the US. One of the other major initiatives of forgien policy by the Nixon government was developing a dialogue with China. While I view China as the only major threat to the US as possible world power, without Nixon's willingness to talk with China we'd still be stuck in the cold war, just China instead of the USSR. I also think that Nixon did the brave thing in keeping the US involved in Vietnam despite the lack of public support. I really wish that the US would have gotten out of Vietnam when Kennedy wanted to pull the US out; however, had we pulled out(Nixon did pull most US troops out, but we did remain involved with money, weapons, experts, etc.) during Nixon's term there would have only been the communist vietnam and this would have allowed for more expansionist attempts by China and allowed them to be an even greater threat than they are now. Nixon was the one to start the war on drugs(despite someone else's claim that it was Reagan). Unlike any other president, Nixon put a thearipist in charge of the war on drugs(a misnomer since it was really focused on helping those who returning from Vietnam with herion and opium addictions get off the drugs, although he did start to focus on arrests as the program moved forward). Another thing that I liked about Nixon was his idea of "New Federalism" where he purposely tried to take power and money from the federal government(mainly the bureaucracy) and return it back to state and local governments. Nixon was also a great, realistic environmentalist who proposed the "Clean Air Act of 1970" and created both the Department of Natural Resources and the Environmental Protection Agency. Of course there is the negative about Nixon, such as Watergate(although there are indications that he didn't know what the CReEPs were doing before they did it, clearly he was involved in the cover-up after the fact), the tapes(that showed he was a racist who had a foul vocabulary), etc. But it is my opinion that the president should have an equal focus on forgien policy and domestic policy.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

Edited by MokshaMan (12/20/01 03:52 PM)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: drew69]
    #497132 -

****The economy really fell on its face when Georgie took office becaue the American people have no faith When the Republicans are in office. et al ****

I'm not going to repeat myself again...if you don't want to spend the time researching before posting then you're not worth a response...read the above threads before spouting the same 'ol dribble that has been pounded out of existance


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: zetek]
    #497134 -

and?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #497450 -

I don't think Doob realizes just how small a portion of our budget goes to welfare.

It's actually kind of comic to you talk about how the whole defense budget was lifted to cover the cost of welfare.....

By the way, I don't think the stock market counts as "inflation". If you look at inflation figures for Clinton's years, I think you'll find them rather low.


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Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Captain Jack]
    #497663 -

I didn't say all the defense money.

Just half. Plus he lowered the standards for many military tools, such as a soldier's radio, which no longer has to be waterproof.

I never said the stock market was inflation.

I said the inflated stock market that we saw under Clinton was a result of inflation.

You see, people had more money than they knew what to do with. So, they threw it into the stock market. Unless you think it was the rich people who invested into the .coms. I doubt it. They tend to know how to hang on to their money. It's part of what makes them rich in the first place.

Inflation was not low under Clinton. Again I ask you to take a look at the the cost of property under the height of his presidency and compare it to now.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #497775 -

Doobie, I think you will find that a bloated military machine
is rather outdated, even in this time of middle east scurmishes.

If anything, Clinton has shown us that a scaled down war machine
functions rather well in this climate.

Where'd ya hear that waterproof radio thang? Rush Hamburger?
Factoids are really just that, little useless pieces of information that
prove nothing. You Republicans forgot how to argue with facts years and years ago.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #498029 -

No PGF.

The radio thing is a fact.

Our military has never been "bloated".

In fact, now we have fewer troops then we did during the Civil War.

"If anything, Clinton has shown us that a scaled down war machine
functions rather well in this climate."

Two embassy bombings, a World Trade Center bombing and a hole in a naval vessel with almost no retaliation have taught us what now brown cow?



--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #499873 -

I don't give a shit about property values. Give me the actual US inflation number. Not one for a specific good, one for the whole economy. Then compare that to the numbers in the 70s and 80s.

Military budget cut in half? I doubt it. Even if it was.....I still think it's silly for the military to get as many billions as it does when some school systems have trouble paying teachers / building enough schools.


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Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Captain Jack]
    #500323 -

We sure can tell who the liberals (communists) are by this post.

GWB Jr. is by far the best president we have had in awhile. Any business owner knows this, you are only as good as your employees, in this case your cabinate. Look who Bush has, the best of the best. He seems dumb because he's one of us. Just a down to earth guy. Who cares he's not the best speaker. There's no law that says you have to be an ellequant speaker to be pres.

The economy he got was inherited from Clinton, the down turn started Jan 2000 after the stock market broke it's upward trend. Clinton had nothing to do with the "good" economy. It was a transition of technology, the moving into the computer age, just like there was a move into the industrial 150 yrs ago. The technology/price ratio was right and you saw every company putting in networks and going "digital". Huge profits were in the computer industry. Now, most of the companies/people that are going to use computers have bought them, there is not the massive demand as before, which means lower profits for computer makers. This downturn is worse than others due to the high number of employees being laid off in the computer field, which then snowballed and now includes all sectors. There can never be a stable economy, there will always be upturns and downturns, that's the way it is. Economys are just like a sine wave, up and down. There is a definate pattern in the growth of economies. We were due for a downturn before it happened, but the computer boom prolonged the growth. Now you want to blame Bush for a completely normal happening? #1 You're wrong because the downshift started under Clinton #2 It's natural, it's going to happen no matter who is in charge. I'm an economics major going to work on an MBA next year, I know what I'm talking about. Unless you have an equal amount of education, I won't even debate this with you because most likely you are VERY misinformed....and let me guess you get your info from TV.

Millionares in Congress oh no!!! Lets hate them because they have more money than me. This is America. You can do whatever you want. If you're going to flip burgers your whole life and piss and moan about millionares, then you're not going anywhere. Do something to make you a millionare. If you aren't trying to be one, shut up and don't complain when you see others succeed. Bill Gates deserves every penny he has. If you don't agree, you go out and write a better OS and change the world like he did. So gee, let's hate Bush because he came from a family that saw an opportunity (oil) and took it.

I'm done writing a book. You can't be rational with irrational people. If you want to learn about politics/economics, take classes. It seems here many just spout off garbage with no rational thinking other people should believe because they say so.


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crinkle crinkle

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ShroomFarmer]
    #500354 -


Boy, you sure can tell who the Nazi's are in this post.

The conservatives breed liberals. I'm liberal and damm proud of it. Why do conservatives keep repeating the "L" word like were ashamed of it (were not)?

Long live the liberials. At least we are more likely legalize shit.


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>>Jammer>>

Edited by Jammer (12/24/01 11:44 PM)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ShroomFarmer]
    #500478 -

I dislike it when people try to say that Clinton had nothing to do with the economic upturn because they say presidents have little direct impact on such matters, yet then they try to either A) give credit for it to Bush Sr or B) blame Clinton for the downswing.

If you're going to give presidents credit and/or blame for economic swings, at least do it consistently.


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Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ShroomFarmer]
    #501443 -

well mr. nazi business owner who believes an idiot should be allowed to be the president, let me be the first to say that most people in this country are not business owners and do not benefit from the changes that a Bush will make. Also, those who are small business owners will soon find that Bush is for BIG business and unless your daddy owns the soccer ball corporation down the street (I'm pretty sure you don't), you will not benefit too much from a Bush in office.

Yes the economic pendulum swings back and forth, but if you are too stupid to realize that there are key factors pushing this pendulum, like having an idiot presaident, then you need to spend another 4 years in your eco101 class yuou poor undereducated symptom of educational decay in the country fool.

*boing boing*

The american dream is a fallacy dirt farmer. When you grow yup you will come to know this is true.

I just realized yu do not even own a business---you are still insulated in the womb of the university MBA program........jesus, I waste my time.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

Edited by PGF (12/26/01 07:00 AM)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #501737 -

To all of the conservatives that are still mocking Clinton for his "I didnt inhale" statement:









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>>Jammer>>

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Jammer]
    #502304 -

you're a very smart person....i change my whole outlook now....typical idiot liberal


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #502322 -

Thank you for the compliment.

Liberial and Proud to be one.


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>>Jammer>>

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #502347 -

Ill try again. favorite presidents: Reagan (brought down USSR, cut taxes, and help end a bunch of liberal shit that idiot Carter started.) Bush JR ( has done a great job under adverse conditions) Teddy Roosevelt(Outdoorsman) and Jefferson(libertairan)...Least Favorite..Tie -Nixon and Clinton ...two of a kind.

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #503057 -

George Washington. He owned slaves, married a rich younger woman right before his teeth fell out, was a farmer, led our revolutionary army, crossed the delaware, kicked the British's a$$, helped form our republic, and was an all around swell guy. May God bless George Washington and his memory forever!


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #516502 -

Jefferson- I have a large libertarian streak in me. 'Nuff said.

Kennedy- Vigorous foreign policy, stood up to communism much like Reagan did. Balanced hubris with desire to actually serve his country.

Reagan- hated his drug policies, applauded his foreign and economic policy. Helped fix 8 years of damage from the previous administrations.

Washington- Was pretty libertarian, and took the idea of limiting governmental power seriously.


Clinton was pretty good at some things, but on balance sucked. He badly overextended themilitary, and prevented them from being effective where they were deployed. He sold out the security of the US in order to perpetuate his grip on power. I think this far outweighs any good he may have done.

I said a lot of mean things about GW during the primaries, but I was wrong about most of them. He's done a pretty good job his entire term, so far. I am completely opposed to his whole faith-based charities initiative, but otherwise I can at least live with the bulk of his agenda. He's pretty moderate overall. Not a good speaker, but obviously smart enough.

The economy was badly overheated and started to correct itself a good 6 months before Bush took office. Any company with a website was selling stock that was far overvalued. The economic rise fromt the late-80s through the 90s was good overall, but got out of hand and was due for a correction. Both Bush Sr and Clinton were simply smart enough to keep their mitts off of the economy, for the most part, and defer to the FED.

Condi Rice in 2004...

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ShroomFarmer]
    #522176 -

Ok, I agree with you about the economy downturn. Your the only person I saw that wasn't pointing at whichever present outside of their political affiliations and blaming them. You can tell who are Republicans and who are Democrats mostly by these posts. ShroomFarmer is very much right that our economy is not stable will never be and no one has discovered how to cure a recession as of yet.
However I don't think Democrats are communists. They lean the way of socialism but sometimes I think it's needed. I would like to think that if something happens and I lose my job, not for something I did but perhaps because some terrorist used a plane of my company to destroy an icon of America and now people are afraid to use our services, that I would recieve some form of monetary gain to help out my family as I look for another job. Of course, I also think the system is abused and fixing it is going to be a task near close to impossible to fix. It's kinda sad when you go by government housing and you see BMWs and Mercedes parked out front.
One more point and this is merely nitpicking but Bill gates did not create of his OS systems. He has a team that develops all the windows while he collects the money and manages the company. DOS, Microsofts orginal system was developed by another computer engineer and bought by Bill Gates and his partner. Bill Gates is merely a good businessman who has earned his money, sometimes perhaps not in the most honorable of ways.


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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #523464 -

Nobody asked you to rail on for 5 minutes against every U.S. President you had a gripe with. Just answer the question. jeez... You never even answered the question. Get some focus.


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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Mklangelo]
    #523538 -

AMEN!!!


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #525069 -

"Prohibition...goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." Abraham Lincoln 1840

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Fudpucker]
    #525079 -

"I freed the who?!?!?"- Abraham Lincoln, after a week long alcohol binge.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #525254 -

LOL..ha ha ha..thats funny


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: wingnutx]
    #528865 -

Impossible... first of all I'll need to be able to respect what the president stands for. Until I see a black muslim communist in the white house, that's not going to happen.

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: degenerate_]
    #528899 -

well ..that's not going to happen so feel free to consider your life a failure..ha


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #529093 -

How can you say prohibition is wrong? The way I see it is that if the Germans were selling fruit loops, during the holocaust, and they were the only ones able to produce it, then we should prohibit fruit loops. What would you think of the prohibition on fruit loops then? Would it be neccessary, or overstepping government bounds. I mean you have to admit that maybe the polish were selling a little bit of fruit loops, and we would hurt their economy by prohibiting fruit loops, and that's where a trade embargo would be neccessary. Only embargo Germany, and not Poland. Why can't our country work like that. I was under the impression that the war on drugs was to keep drugs from other countries out, and to make drugs illegal inside the country to dispromote the using of drugs from those countries. But I would embargo all drugs from foreign countries, and legalize it inside the country. This is possible in our day of technology. If this makes sense, then you have to see that the war on drugs was only created from the inside of the u.s. to create the black market, and mafia oriented drug trade.

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: degenerate_]
    #529697 -

I'd rather see an agnostic libertarian of any race in the whitehouse, personally. Wait, we had one of those. His name was Thomas Jefferson. I'm not holding my breath for another one.

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #530642 -

At the moment it's either Jefferson or Truman. Two of the very few Democrats worth a shit in my book...


Jefferson was a true Renaisance man. Archetect, Surveyor, Poet, Philosopher, Botanist, Musician, American President, American Secretary of State, Diplomat, Inventor...

Truman: Said what the hell was on his mind and straight to hell with anybody that didn't like it. Not like today at all when they ALL lead by "focus groups" and opinion polls. A real man of his convictions, right, wrong or indifferent! He understood his place historically as well as any president we have EVER had. Bar NONE!!!

Reagan gets high marks for bringing pride back to America.


JFK gets a good mention also. The only Democrat that understood that lower taxes meant economic growth.




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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

Edited by Mklangelo (01/25/02 12:23 AM)

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #545307 -

PGF take an economics course if you think the good economy during the Clinton years was due to Clintonomics. The US recession we are currently having is the direct effect of Clinton. On the economic front just take an econ class or two.

On the current state of how the rest of the world views and hates the U.S. Thats Clintons fault too and we'll be suffering from the fall out of his pussy U.N. teams and sanctions for years. Clinton had no nuts to do any direct infiltration to stop those mid east wingnuts. Now their pissed and are playing catch up.

I cant add much to rip PGF's ignorance than what Invertigo has already said.

I agree with Vert's top 4 and to the 5th President I would say Abe Lincoln. Why?
1. He's was a republican
2. He created equality for the races, of which no democrat has ever done. Dems try to keep the poor and ignorant down by giving them crappy education and even worse social services.
3. The Gettysberg Address

Worst presidents:
Clinton... he's a communist need I say more.

Kennedy... Just another Dem who looked good and presented well. He was another socialist to bring more precursers of communism to our country. It's too bad someone had to shoot him and immortalize him and the family name.

That President I don't even want to mention who developed the even at its time defunct social security system. A hybrid welfare system.

Hillary Clinton forjust attempting to design and socialize healthcare. Thats all we need is a defunct healthcare and social security system.

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: AzulAgave]
    #545317 -

In reply to:

PGF take an economics course if you think the good economy during the Clinton years was due to Clintonomics. The US recession we are currently having is the direct effect of Clinton. On the economic front just take an econ class or two.



And all this time I thought the recession we're having was the result of the BUSINESS CYCLE. Did you ever hear of it? It's what makes our economy go up and down.

BTW, the old econ 101 rip is a sign of an extremely weak argument and should never be resorted to.

Take care


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: cyclone]
    #545867 -

Oh yeah. I forgot one of my favorites. Jefferson Davis.

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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #545873 -

LBJ he took a stance that wasn't popular with the public cuz he thought it was right, lets see any of the puppet polititians do something that goes against the voter opinion, cold day in hell

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