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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495733 - 12/19/01 08:03 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Doob, calm down. Clinton reduced national debt and america prospered under his leadership. It's fact.

You should stop listening to Rush Limburger and open your mind. Rush just pushes propaganda for the Republican Nazi party. Bush is a fool and everyone knows and excepts this except for the misinformed or poorly educated. You'll see. Soon the unemployment will hit 25% and the the streets will be filled with people standing in bread lines. It is inevitable, Bush Jr. running shit, is like Elmer Fudd running shit. "be very very quiet, I'm hunting for my bwain". I doubt OSB would've bombed the trade centers if there was a smarter man in office. (-;


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Anonymous

Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495755 - 12/19/01 08:36 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Jefferson completely overstepped the bounds of the constitution with the Louisiana Purchase. Washington allowed Sec of Treasury Hamilton to overstep the consititution in creating the Bank of the United States. The constitution, in practice, has been a living document since its inception.

Jackson did do a couple of grand things: he eliminated the Bank of the United States (replacing it with a system of pet banks which was no better, but paved the way for our current Fed Reserve). Jackson's Specie Circular policy on purchasing public western lands was brilliant. Jacksons first seven years were great, on the surface. But his poor economic policies caught up with him near the end of his second term and the economy began failing. Under his hand picked predecessor, Van Buren, we experienced the Panic of 1837 and a pretty harsh depression, which cost Van Buren his reelection bid.

Say what you want about his morals, but as a leader for the country Clinton is one of the better presidents we've had.

I'm not certain if Bush has firmly placed and economic policy yet. Regardless, he is (at least partially) to blame for our economic recession-- the people and corporations don't have faith in him as a leader. Thats evident in the way the DOW index reacted after the initial election and after Bush was declared the victor. Its been downhill since. Jr has no place running a hot dog stand, let alone the free world. He cannot speak, he has no charisma, he is not intelligent by any stretch of the imagination, he caters to his corporate backers more so than any president of recent memory. A pin I saw the other day sums it up. A picture of Bush with the caption: Like a Rock
Only Dumber

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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #495785 - 12/19/01 09:35 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

The national debt...

The national debt is an economic tool used to control the economy. Guess what reducing it does? It creates inflation. The repricussions of which are being seen now.

Why do you think real estate was so ridiculously outpriced a year ago? Take a guess. INFLATION.

Yeah, we all had a nice little party over the past eight years. Now it's time to clean up.

Um, Osama did bomb the WTC when Clinton was in office, but I guess you don't remember that.

Remember what Clinton did about it? Oh yeah, not a goddamn thing.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #495816 - 12/19/01 10:32 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, but the bombing in Clinton's time was a failure and the offenders were brought to justice swiftly. Bush is taking his time and they succeeded under Bush. Plus, I read that Bush Jr., was seen fucking a dog while he was in office in Texas. Also, Bush Jr., was seen fondling the genitalia of small boys at a daycare he ran in his office. Apparently this man is not just dumb, he is a pedophile bestiologist.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ]
    #495849 - 12/19/01 11:01 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

****Jefferson completely overstepped the bounds of the constitution with the Louisiana Purchase****

Remember that their was nothing in the constitution that said that he couldn't use public money..this point is debatable

****Washington allowed Sec of Treasury Hamilton to overstep the consititution in creating the Bank of the United States. ****

how was this unconstitutional?

***The constitution, in practice, has been a living document since its inception****

A living document is useless...do you want to play poker with living rules and constraints?

****But his poor economic policies caught up with him near the end of his second term and the economy began failing****

I beg to differ...however he was suffering from turbercucalosis (sp) in his final term

****Say what you want about his morals, but as a leader for the country Clinton is one of the better presidents we've had***

Actually his morals were the last think i think of when i say he was a lousy president. His economic polocies are bearing their ugly head in today's economy, i'm still wondering what his economic polocies were. As a leader he sold secrets to a hostile regime and failed to do anything about terrorism..i'd say he was to busy building his legacy and the great thing is that he has done just that...being useless.

***I'm not certain if Bush has firmly placed and economic policy yet. Regardless, he is (at least partially) to blame for our economic recession***

How cabn he?..you just said that he doesn't have an economic policy set yet.

****the people and corporations don't have faith in him as a leader***

wow now the polls don't tell the truth? seems to me he's up there pretty high in the polls right now..higher than Klinton.

****Thats evident in the way the DOW index reacted after the initial election and after Bush was declared the victor****

The DOW was falling due to the witch hunt on microsoft...go back and look at the facts



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #495853 - 12/19/01 11:05 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

****Yeah, but the bombing in Clinton's time was a failure and the offenders were brought to justice swiftly. ****

if you call years swiftly

****Bush is taking his time and they succeeded under Bush.***

It's been just over 3 months what are you expecting? instant gratification?

****I read that Bush Jr., was seen fucking a dog while he was in office in Texas. Also, Bush Jr., was seen fondling the genitalia of small boys at a daycare he ran in his office. Apparently this man is not just dumb, he is a pedophile bestiologist****

HA HA HA.....the dog was hillary and the child was chelsea


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #495856 - 12/19/01 11:09 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

We may not agree on much but at least you are the only one who listed the presidents you like and dislike. There are many here that don't know why they like or hate any particular president...let alone their accomplishments.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinefeign
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Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 53
Loc: US of A
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #495867 - 12/19/01 11:15 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, first of all, Jefferson's stance on slavery was fairly liberal for the time. But, he was smart enough to realize that freeing all the slaves and letting them into society would not work. He personally may have been able to look past his prejudices (which he did for at least a little while, while he was gettin' it on with his slaves...), but he realized that the majority of the population would not. Therefore he only favored freedom of slaves if they could have a place to go. He simply didn't think that our society would function if there were two races in it, and he didn't want to see the violence that would result.

As for why he kept up his plantation and his crops? That was his basic theory of the republic. The farmer is the "bone and sinew of the republic", he said, so it only makes sense that he would be a farmer.

On the issue of modern presidents and our current economic situation, I don't really know a whole lot about what's going on now...however I will say that in the past, when one president gets shafted for causing some kind of decline in the economy, it generally isn't their fault, but the president before them. Someone already mentioned the Panic of 1837, which caused a massive decline in popularity for Van Buren, resulting in him not getting reelected. But it wasn't Van Buren's fault at all, it was all a result of Jackon's Specie Circular, his pet banks, and his other economic policies.

Anyway, without knowing too many of the specifics of modern day economic policies or lack thereof, I would say that the likely chain of events goes something like this: The economy sucks and then Bush Sr. comes into office, he manages to help repair it, and with a few finishing touches from Clinton, it's doing great. So now everyone thinks Clinton fixed the economy. Then Clinton manages to fuck things up, but we don't see the results of his fuckups until now, with Bush Jr. in office. Again, I don't know any specifics, so I could be completely and totally off base here, it just seems like from what others have said, that that is a likely scenario. It does seem funny to me that people could blame Bush for the recent problems with the economy if he hasn't even done anything to it yet...


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Remember I'll always love you as I claw your fucking throat away. It will end no other way.
-Tool

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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 280
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ]
    #495885 - 12/19/01 11:43 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

>> Say what you want about his morals, but as a leader for the country Clinton is one of the better presidents we've had.

I really want to know what Clinton did while he was in office. I mean he was sitting on the most prosporous time in American history. Did he paint a new vision for the future of the world that the US could lead? I didn't see it if he did. Did he get a health care plan passed as he had promised? No, Gore ran on the exact same thing. About the only thing that I saw ol' Clinton doing was sitting on his ass. Did he have a true foriegn policy? No, he just kept trying to force reluctant parties to meet and discuss peace. He also seldom accomplished what he wanted to with his lackluster policy in Africa, Latin America(other than NAFTA, but that's just Mexico and not the whole of Latin America), and most of the Asian continent. What about fixing the broken social security program? Nothing. Global warming? Nothing... although we did sign the absurd Kyototo Treaty(yeah, you third world countries you keep polluting all you want). As well as the fact that he made it nearly impossible for any sort of controled burns to happen in national forests(if there are no roads and no tree removal... how can you have controled burns?), this will eventually come back and bite him in the ass. You can say it's the economy all you want, but if you ask me I'll put my faith in the real people that ran the economy. Who you may ask: Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan and Secretary of Treasury, Robert Rubin.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 280
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: feign]
    #495893 - 12/19/01 11:58 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

>> Ok, first of all, Jefferson's stance on slavery was fairly liberal for the time.

I'll agree that his belief was somewhat liberal. Fairly liberal would have been the stance taken by John Adams and Thomas Paine. I still say that this statement from someone that advanced the idea of equality proves that he did not believe such, "I advance it therefore as a suspicion only, that the blacks, whether originally a distinct race, or made distinct by time and circumstances, are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind." And as I said earlier, not so much the slavery issue that bothers me as quotes like the above claiming the inferiority of one race over another.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #495944 - 12/19/01 01:05 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah i am just ribbing Doobie now. It's all in good fun. I do know how to follow directions and I pride myself on being the only one to answer your question correctly. I want some gold stars out of the deal.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #495957 - 12/19/01 01:16 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

The first bombing of the WTC was a failure? The bomb exploded did it not? People died did they not? Do you think that the intent of the bombing was to bring both buildings down in some kind of domino effect? I think the results were pretty much what was planned.

And what about the embassies?
And the Cole?

Clinton got the people responsible? Bin laden was still walking around a free man.

You claim that I am blindly following a Nazi party, but look at your arguments. Clinton through eight years set up an economy that totally fell apart the day he stole the 'w' keys from the white house computers and pardoned spies.

(That shows a lot of intelligence, doesn't it?)

Just like magic, the whole thing came crumbling down. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, that you conveniently don't remember.

You show me an article about a private organization set up by Democrat politicians, and blame the REPUBLICANS for their actions...

Come on now, man.



--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Anonymous

Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #496042 - 12/19/01 03:04 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

<<****Jefferson completely overstepped the bounds of the constitution with the Louisiana Purchase****

Remember that their was nothing in the constitution that said that he couldn't use public money..this point is debatable >>

Jefferson himslef believed his actions to be unconstitutional

<<****Washington allowed Sec of Treasury Hamilton to overstep the consititution in creating the Bank of the United States. ****

how was this unconstitutional? >>

Any power not expressly given to the federal gov. was given to the state. The Constitution did not give the federal gov the right to create a national bank. Thus, at least from a strict constructionist veiw, which i gather you hold, this would be unconstitutional

<<***The constitution, in practice, has been a living document since its inception****

A living document is useless...do you want to play poker with living rules and constraints? >>

Didn't say it was for better or worse... just the way it has been.

<<****But his poor economic policies caught up with him near the end of his second term and the economy began failing****

I beg to differ...however he was suffering from turbercucalosis (sp) in his final term >>

No, fact here. Inflation began to increase in the last months of his presidency as a result of the tariff passed under the Compromise of 1830. It had finally gotten too low (the Comp of 1830 was set on a gradual decline) to adequately protect New England merchants and the British were undercutting American manufacturers/merchants. The economy began to fail under Jackson, finally resulting in the Panic of 1837


<<****Say what you want about his morals, but as a leader for the country Clinton is one of the better presidents we've had***

Actually his morals were the last think i think of when i say he was a lousy president. His economic polocies are bearing their ugly head in today's economy, i'm still wondering what his economic polocies were. As a leader he sold secrets to a hostile regime and failed to do anything about terrorism..i'd say he was to busy building his legacy and the great thing is that he has done just that...being useless. >>

His economic policies got us out of the recession we faced under Bush Sr and led us into eight of the most prosperous years this country has ever seen.

<<***I'm not certain if Bush has firmly placed and economic policy yet. Regardless, he is (at least partially) to blame for our economic recession***

How cabn he?..you just said that he doesn't have an economic policy set yet.

****the people and corporations don't have faith in him as a leader***

wow now the polls don't tell the truth? seems to me he's up there pretty high in the polls right now..higher than Klinton.

****Thats evident in the way the DOW index reacted after the initial election and after Bush was declared the victor****

The DOW was falling due to the witch hunt on microsoft...go back and look at the facts>>

The microsoft witchhunt had already taken its toll. Are you saying that is was pure coincidence that as soon as Dubya was announce the President Elect the stock markets plummeted? Approval rating polls seem to be in direct contradiction of the economy and the stock market... i believe its already been said here before, but people vote with their wallets...

My favorite President? JFK. Navigated possibly the most difficult time in the history of civilization (cuban missle crisis). That in and of itself is enough. Add the space program, relative economic prosperity, and his ability as a poised public speaker and you've got a damn good leader.

Ahh... just like old times. Arguing with innvertigo...




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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ]
    #496176 - 12/19/01 05:26 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

***Ahh... just like old times. Arguing with innvertigo... ****

C'mon..who's arguing..you taught me a little about jefferson that i didn't know..i'm actually quite pleased....i still like him however

****His economic policies got us out of the recession we faced under Bush Sr and led us into eight of the most prosperous years this country has ever seen. ****

So tell me..ah..what were his policies that brout us out of this "resession"?

YOU:
***I'm not certain if Bush has firmly placed and economic policy yet. Regardless, he is (at least partially) to blame for our economic recession***
ME:
How can he?..you just said that he doesn't have an economic policy set yet.

ME AGAIN:
I really want an answer to this if you can

****The microsoft witchhunt had already taken its toll. Are you saying that is was pure coincidence that as soon as Dubya was announce the President Elect the stock markets plummeted? ****

Look at the dow and when it started it's nose dive and compare it to when the microsoft rulings took place, i'm sure you'll be surprised to see that they are at the same time..about 2 1/2 - 3 years of Klinton's second term. When bush was elected it was already on it's way to the bottom...trust me there was a large drop in the economy as well from Oct 2000-Jan2001...if you want i can show you my 401K :)

****i believe its already been said here before, but people vote with their wallets*****

They did..they elected Bush

****My favorite President? JFK****

He's in my top 10 or 15


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: ]
    #496805 - 12/20/01 08:39 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Doobie, no one has faith in Jr., and that is THE reason the economy went sour as soon as he took office. Business got scared. Corporations fear his drooling nonsense and they fear the impact it may have on their normal functioning. As soon as he took office, normal people everywhere became scared. You could feel it in the air. The masses stopped buying stuff and tightenedup for a long, cold, not so prosperous 4 years of drooling idiot leadership. You can not actually believe this man is a good president!!!!!!! Youjust can't Doobie. Even invertigo admits that someone else is behind the curtain pulling the strings for this guy. He is pathetic. Deep down inside, you are more liberal than you let on to be.

Hey, go post and tell GG that you are to buy a t-shirt so he can get them made asap.


--------------------
***The Real Shroomery nigger

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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #496829 - 12/20/01 09:39 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

You liberals just don't know anything about economics. You really shouldn't be allowed to vote. You are all about insant gratification and have no longsightedness. I am tired of repeating myself in this thread. It is obvious that you guys will just listen to whatever the liberal media tells you. The masses truly are asses.

Your parties are all about compassion for the little guy. Poor little nig nog gets picked on in school. Give him a food stamp. Teach him to be dependant on the government and call it good economic policy. Who is really paying attention anyway? Certainly not the people that elected him.

Compassion for the little guy is weakness.This world is cut throat. Especially if you are the one holding all of the cards. Other people, countries don't like that so much and so you always have to watch your back. Selling secrets to China is not a good example of how to watch your back. But who's paying attention anyway? Certainly not the people that voted for him. They're too busy going to PETA meetings chanting "fur is murder" as if that issue somehow matters at all in any context.

Compassion is the people's responsibility. Protection is what the government is for.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Invisibledrew69
newbie
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 32
Loc: arizona
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #496855 - 12/20/01 10:18 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

The economy really fell on its face when Georgie took office becaue the American people have no faith When the Republicans are in office. The economy does well when The Democrats are in charge because people have faith. Republicans take care of the rich. Reaganomics did more to hurt the average middle class american than any president in history. He made some tax cuts but only for the rich. He covered his tax cuts by taking away tax credits from the middle class. i.e not being able to claim credit card intrest on your federal taxes. Not geing able to claim the intrest on mortages if it isn't your principal residence etc. they hurt the middle guy.


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fuck the government. and especially fuck the police

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InvisiblePGF
square

Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #496878 - 12/20/01 10:55 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Doobie, I hate a nignok welfare recipient as much as the next guy, but if you do not do a little something for them, they are just going to be ripping off your stereos and tvs to get their food and beer money. Then, you have to jail them and feed and clothe the thieving bastards for the rest of their lives as well as keep them in a furnished cell.

What do you propose?
regress to third world status and have areas of land outside the city where niknoks live in makeshift shacks?


--------------------
***The Real Shroomery nigger

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,682
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #496937 - 12/20/01 12:13 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

The economy is poor because thats the way things go... The president and Chairman of the Federal Reserve can do all they want to try and stableize things but the fact is that its just that time... We had a good long ride of positive economic growth, the lowering of the national deficite and the partial repayment of the national debt (which in fact has gone up every day for 200 years and has never actualy gone down a penny under any administration).

Now its just the nature of things.. What goes up must come down. We had one quarter of negative economic growth at the end of clintions term and we will have another at the beginning of Georgies because of September 11th. 2 Quarters of negative growth is what a recession is and we arent even their yet.

Things will go up again and people will be assured that our government is doing their job once more and whoever is president at that time will bask in the glory of high economic praise but it really isnt him doing it. Its just the way things go...


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: Who is your favorite President and why? [Re: PGF]
    #496955 - 12/20/01 12:46 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I'd rather pay for a jail cell than a college tuition and food for Shanaqua's eight kids.



--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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