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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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The Slug of Philosophy....
    #4924980 -

So, today, I found a slug on my bathtub. I didnt recognize it until i was already taking a dump.
The first notion that came to me, was to pour salt on it... then i started to think about the spiritual and philisophical ramificttions of this....
I thought, "would that be overtly malicious?", then I asid, well, certain cats and other species play with prey in a semi-malicious form under the guise of "curiosity"... and wasnt this anything but simple curiosity? I wanted to see a slug with salt on it and its physical reaction.
Then I started to think about man and his intrusion upon the animal domain. I said to myself, "well, this is my home, my hovel, my nest, which you (the slug) have tread upon, and as any superior (food chain wise) animal, I shall destroy you for the continued peace my home/nest/hovel has.
Would I feel slightened if my life had been cut short due to my transgression against an animal greater than myself?

As we (humans) constantly expand our primal borders and infringe upon others lands, do we not have the "natural" right to destroy/eat/preserve all inferior species as we see fit?

So while I may be overtly malicious and akin to a kid with a magnifying glass aloft an anthill, I say it is my natural right and anything that I do as a member/species of this universe that I am apart of is apt. My cause, and my effect are just as righteous as any animal, while I may understand on some level the purely conceptual notion of morality and compassion, I am nothing more than an organism trying to struggle for its survival, and any intruders upon my habitat shall be dealt with accordingly.

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4925220 -

Slugs are good creatures. While they can be a pest in a garden because some eat vegetables, many eat other noxious insects and have a beneficial effect on the environment in the same way that spiders and ladybugs do. They are not nasty and are pleasant to handle and interesting to observe. If you see one kindly move it out of harms way. Killing another creature without purpose or the intentions of eating it is a grievous sin against nature.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4925567 -

Some people get their rocks off by killing things, and some people get their kicks from watching things live. 


P.S

Then the hurricane comes and says this is my home, my hovel, and my nest and it destroys you for the continued peace of its home  :tongue:


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I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: Cherk]
    #4925598 -

Pretty good observation.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: Cherk]
    #4925607 -

:lol:

Your comment about getting your kicks seeing things live reminded me of something.

On the road home, this squirrel ran right out in front of my car and just stopped and stared at me right in front of where my wheel was headed. My first thought was "You stupid squirrel. I could smash you dead." I applied the breaks instead though. Squirrel ran off and up a tree and I watched him scamper up it and I smiled. He was so cute in his frolicking way.

I drove on and the next thought was, "He lives another day to frolick about the trees because I let him. Cool." :cool:

Had I run over him because I could've, I would've felt awful.

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4925687 -

"Had I run over him because I could've, I would've felt awful."

I firmly believe we incur a karmic debt...in this life...when we engage in petty destruction. I support hunting and fishing...under the proper ethical circumstances...which are that you consume the life you take. Killing for petty reasons and being wasteful with life is a terrible sin in my book. It is a sin against life, Earth, and the self. Nature gives us the natural resources we have for our survival...not for gluttony and waste.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4926171 -

So, when a cat paws and plays with a grasshopper, or cricket for its own curiosity or entertainment....that is incurring karmic debt? its petty destruction?


When i saw the slug, the very first thing that popped in my head was "Get the salt". Then I had a discussion in my head about it... It was almost instinct, a knee-jerk reaction to seeing a slug, much like when a cat sees something moving under leaves.

My major dispute with the semi-jainism karmic finger waggling is that they feel that only humans can incur and cause the wrath of karma. Since we have created this illusory list of rules that equate to ethics and morals, we must adhere to them, or be spanked by cosmic justice, while all other animals are blissfully ignorant and anything they do IS nature. It is somewhat elitist as well to think that there is nature, then there is you, and that you are above the petty knee-jerk reactions and animalistic spurts.

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4926214 -

dunno if cats have such abilities but maybe the cat learns to respect its opponents lateR in life similar to humans? or perhaps they just have sadistic tendencies

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4926217 -

"So, when a cat paws and plays with a grasshopper, or cricket for its own curiosity or entertainment"

This is not entertainment but practice for combat with larger creatures and quite instinctual. We have no such needs. I am not discussing next life karma...I am talking about now-karma...instant karma as John Lennon said. Petty behavior towards weaker creatures manifests itself as petty behavior towards one's own kind. Eventually what you send out will return. You will find yourself at the recieving end of this sort of behavior because you (I do not really mean you personally) have engaged in the behavior towards others. Quite simple and unsupernatural it is...I just like the word karma because it is a good description.

"It is somewhat elitist as well to think that there is nature, then there is you, and that you are above the petty knee-jerk reactions and animalistic spurts."

I am sorry, but I am nothing more than an animal, and the other animals here on this Earth are my kin.

"Instant karma is gonna get you
knock you right in the head
you better recognize your brothers
because pretty soon your gonna be dead"--John Lennon


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4926228 -

Ravus posted this once. Maybe it should be reposted.
http://www.christopherleestreet.com/ftp/random/!%20dance_monkeys_dance.swf


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4926394 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
"So, when a cat paws and plays with a grasshopper, or cricket for its own curiosity or entertainment"

This is not entertainment but practice for combat with larger creatures and quite instinctual. We have no such needs. I am not discussing next life karma...I am talking about now-karma...instant karma as John Lennon said. Petty behavior towards weaker creatures manifests itself as petty behavior towards one's own kind. Eventually what you send out will return. You will find yourself at the recieving end of this sort of behavior because you (I do not really mean you personally) have engaged in the behavior towards others. Quite simple and unsupernatural it is...I just like the word karma because it is a good description.



How can a cat use a grasshopper as training for a fight against a raccoon? Im sure the act is very instinctual, but was my urge to pour salt on the slug not instinctual as well?
It wasnt as if I had gone foraging for slugs to pour salt on. I was taking a dump and noticed a slimy trespasser in my home.
Karma deals with defining righteousness and evil, good and bad. Frankly I dont believe in these things. Labelling past actions is useless to me. Things just are and your perception of them and whatever magical curse you evoke for the revenge of the meek are pure illusion.

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4926504 -

"was my urge to pour salt on the slug not instinctual as well?"

No, you thought it out. Cleaning up the mess was probably worse than just putting it outside. If you like to hurt things needlessly that is your problem and dysfunction. I must note that it is considered an indication of personality disorder. In any case it is your problem, and I am concerned with my own behavior. I have said all I have to say on this.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4926577 -

Well, like I said before, it was the very first thing that popped into my head, and there was an urge to pour salt on the slug.

I think you need to allow some alternate perspective on this matter, for your own sake. The above statement is exactly what I am referring to about your karma crap.
Explain to me why I should feel bad for pouring salt on a slug.

Good and bad are concepts, they dont really exist. Just the other day I was reading a passage that said "If a man shoots his mother from 500 yards away, he would be a good shot, but a bad son".
Maybe I am "dysfunctional" and have a "personality disorder" (whatever the fuck that really means???), but that is only relative to the status quo, and have you seen your average american lately?

It is much like how you may find me offensive, yet i find you easily offended. Try stepping outside of your conditioned responses and perceive without awareness to the self.
Right now, you think I have a problem, which is kind of your problem, because i feel great, even after pouring salt on the slug.

How is karmic retribution defined and dealt? Does it only deal with people who have transgressed against their own ethics and morality?
example: If someone felt it was perfectly ok to punch pregnant women in the stomach, had no guilt, and no remorse, because they see nothing wrong about it, and in fact feel righteous in doing the act... would they be punished by karma?
Do you see where I am going with this at all?

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4926582 -

"Explain to me why I should feel bad for pouring salt on a slug."
coz slugs are cute? :smile:

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4928098 -

I also have occasionally slugs in my bathroom. They look mean, huge with tiger-patterns on their bodies.
As I don't want to touch them, I thought, if they find in, they will find out, at least, they only have to go back their trails :smile:
The first one disappeared.
The second one crept around for about three days, then I found her almost dead in my sink on the last drops of water.
I was sad for that idiotic slug and I offered some toilet-roll to move on. It moved on and I put it outside.
Then the third, after having seen her, the day after it was sitting on the toilet roll, so I could move it out.
I hope, they will tell their experiences to their families and kids. There is nothing interesting in my bathroom ! And if you are not lucky or clever, you will dry out ! :lol:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4929222 -

psilocyberin said:
Huehuecoyotl said:
"So, when a cat paws and plays with a grasshopper, or cricket for its own curiosity or entertainment"

This is not entertainment but practice for combat with larger creatures and quite instinctual. We have no such needs. I am not discussing next life karma...I am talking about now-karma...instant karma as John Lennon said. Petty behavior towards weaker creatures manifests itself as petty behavior towards one's own kind. Eventually what you send out will return. You will find yourself at the recieving end of this sort of behavior because you (I do not really mean you personally) have engaged in the behavior towards others. Quite simple and unsupernatural it is...I just like the word karma because it is a good description.



How can a cat use a grasshopper as training for a fight against a raccoon? Im sure the act is very instinctual, but was my urge to pour salt on the slug not instinctual as well?


not even close, the fact that you had the freedom to deliberate your actions means that you are above being bound by instinct.

If you want to know about karma, aniamls are bound by ignorance and are slaves to their drives..... cats in this case can have "malicious" drives. Humans however have an "ego" which lets them mediate any destructive tendencies they have.

Consider for example, if you had been raised in a very violent household where you learned to be malicious to other humans. When you saw another person you might have the notion to "salt him" ..... so what say you just follow the notion through ? That's what animals do...

The only reason you felt like salting the slug is because of social conditioning, there is nothing instinctual at all about creative murder...... to cater to your animal whims is to say "fine, I don't have free will, I'm going to let circumstances beyond my control dictate the way I live the rest of my life."

Quote:
It wasnt as if I had gone foraging for slugs to pour salt on. I was taking a dump and noticed a slimy trespasser in my home.
Karma deals with defining righteousness and evil, good and bad. Frankly I dont believe in these things. Labelling past actions is useless to me. Things just are and your perception of them and whatever magical curse you evoke for the revenge of the meek are pure illusion.


Karma doesn't define anything, karma is just cause and effect. Being a stingy rich miser will probably lead to you being dependent upon the charity of others, but starving all the same because they don't give a fuck about you.

Being one of those assholes that likes to pick fights with people at bars might lead to you being beaten into a coma by a martial arts expert that hates those types of people that pick fights with others for no due reason.

Etc.

You chose to end a life. Don't think the slug is any less special than you, this is an error of judgement committed by all those who chose to end life, human or animal or insect likewise.. Imagine what it is like to be existing then to all of a sudden be put through an agonizing death, for no good fucking reason! What you should have contemplated was not how YOU fit in to this salting scenario, but also how the SLUG fits in.

The next time you're high or tripping I suggest you reflect upon the miseries of animal existence.... a little patience and compassion can go a long way.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (11/13/05 03:24 PM)

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: leery11]
    #4929269 -

I call my garden slugs Morton and Leslie just because I can.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4930079 -

humans have a natural "right" to live in any way they choose. any way whatsoever. we have the right to respect other and weaker forms of life, or we have the right not to.

you opted not to, i usually try to respect and preserve life

i rarely kill insects , only biting flys, and i think killing (even slugs) for pleasure is sick and wrong, but only in my personal relativistic oppinion. it is my spiritual belief that emotions of maliciousness, sadism and cruelty (as well as fear, shame, guilt, greed etc) stain the soul...


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4930355 -

I strongly concur.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Slug of Philosophy.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4930398 -

No one asked the real question here.

How did a slug make it's way into your bathroom?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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