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Shop: Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Meditation & Mind
    #4890036 -

Sri Ramana Maharshi (Excerpts from his Spiritual Teachings )

? Question. How can I control the mind?

? M. There is no mind to control if the Self is realized. The Self shines forth when the mind vanishes. In the realized man the mind may be active or inactive, the Self alone exists. For, the mind, body and world are not separate from the Self; and they cannot remain apart from the Self. Can they be other than the Self? When aware of the Self why should one worry about these shadows? How do they affect the Self?

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? Question. If the mind is merely a shadow how then is one to know
the Self?

? M. The Self is the Heart, self-luminous. Illumination arises from the Heart and reaches the brain, which is the seat of the mind. The world is seen with the mind; so you see the world by the reflected light of the Self; The world is perceived by an act of the mind. When the mind is illumined it is aware of the world; when it is not so illumined, it is not aware of the world.

If the mind is turned in, towards the Source of illumination, objective knowledge ceases, and the Self alone shines as the Heart.

The moon shines by reflecting the light of the sun. When the sun has set, the moon is useful for displaying objects. When the sun has risen no one needs the moon, though its disc is visible in the sky. So it is with the mind and the Heart. The mind is made useful by its reflected light. It is used for seeing objects. When turned inwards, it merges into the Source of illumination which shines by Itself and the mind is then like the moon in the day-time. When it is dark, a lamp is necessary to give light. But when the sun has arisen, there is no need for the lamp; the objects are visible. And to see the sun no lamp is necessary, it is enough if you turn your eyes towards the -self-luminous sun. Similarly with the mind, to see the objects the light reflected from the mind is necessary. To see the Heart it is enough that the mind is turned towards it. Then the mind does not count and the Heart is self-effulgent.

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? Question. Is a set meditation necessary for strengthening the mind?

? M. Not, if you keep the idea always before you, that it is not your work. At first, effort is needed to remind yourself of it, but later on it becomes natural and continuous. The work will go on of its own accord, and your peace will remain undisturbed.

Meditation is your true nature. You call it meditation now, because there are other thoughts distracting you. When these thoughts are dispelled, you remain alone?
that is, in the state of meditation free from thoughts; and that is your real nature, which you are now trying to gain by keeping away other thoughts. Such keeping away of other thoughts is now called meditation. But when the practice becomes firm, the real nature shows itself as true meditation.

--------------------------------

? Question. Other thoughts arise more forcibly when one attempts meditation!

? M. Yes, all kinds of thought arise in meditation. That is only right; for what lies hidden in you is brought out. Unless it rises up, how can it be destroyed ? Thoughts rise up spontaneously, as it were, but only to be extinguished in due course, thus strengthening the mind.

----------------------

? Question. How can the rebellious mind be made calm and tranquil ?

? M. Either see its source so that it may disappear, or surrender yourself so that it may be struck down. Self-surrender is the same as Self-knowledge, and either of them necessarily implies self-control. The ego submits only when it recognizes the Higher Power.

-----------------------------

? Question. How can I escape from samsara which seems to be the real cause for making the mind restless? Is not renunciation an effective means to realize tranquility of mind ?

? M. Samsara is only in your mind. The world does not speak out saying, 'Here I am, the world'. If it did so, it would be ever there, making its presence felt by you even in your sleep. Since, however, it is not there in sleep, it is impermanent. Being impermanent, it lacks substance. Having no reality apart from the Self it is easily subdued by the Self. The Self alone is permanent. Renunciation is the non-identification of the Self with the not-Self. When the ignorance which identifies the Self with not-Self is removed, not-Self ceases to exist, and that is true renunciation.

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: felix4life]
    #4890069 -

Frankly I have known many more long term meditators than long term drug users. I don't know of one that reflects the things this dude is talking about.  :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Meditation & Mind *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #4890198 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: dorkus]
    #4890429 -

man i dont know whats the hype with all this killing the mind/self stuff, i prefer using my mind thank u. and if u shortcut out of the worldy problems with these methods then the world will only keep gettin more screwed up

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Re: Meditation & Mind *DELETED* [Re: budsicle]
    #4890652 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: dorkus]
    #4890692 -

Quote:
Do you agree that you find clarity and true intelligence in your most silent and lucid moments? Can you see the strain racing thoughts have on your energy?


Here is a real benefit of meditation IMO. It's a great tool. It can help you on your path. It is not the path IMO. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: Icelander]
    #4890997 -

Its not about killing the mind or anything. It's about stepping back from the mind and knowing that you are not your mind. So many of us are so lost in the constant mental noise of our mind that we forget who we realy are.

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: budsicle]
    #4892292 -

budsicle said:
man i dont know whats the hype with all this killing the mind/self stuff, i prefer using my mind thank u. and if u shortcut out of the worldy problems with these methods then the world will only keep gettin more screwed up


it never ceases to amaze me how people can so misinterpret spiritual teachings. the current problems on earth are a reflection of the state of consciousness of mankind. the key to solving the problems on earth is to raise the collective consciousness. through the inquiry "who am i" one's true identity can be realized, thus raising the consciousness of the individual and allowing him to reach his highest potential for doing service to the world. here you have the key to solving all the problems on earth and you see it as causing more problems? dont you see that if you shortcut out all the problems IN YOUR MIND then you are free to give your fullest attention and effort into bringing perfection into the world? in other words, you are advocating we solve the problems on earth by remaining in the state of mind that gave rise to those problems. absurd!

Edited by Deviate (11/04/05 01:17 AM)

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: Deviate]
    #4892819 -

"Good point. Maybe it is not about dropping the ability to use the mind, but more of a recognition of the rational mind as nothing more than another sense.
Do you agree that you find clarity and true intelligence in your most silent and lucid moments? Can you see the strain racing thoughts have on your energy?"
yes i agree, but as young people we are here to function wif the world and experience not to sit all days in silent contemplation. obsessing with meditation too much is like lightning a candle and burning ur eyes blind with it. also if you constantly think in terms of advanced meditation, i would figure that this also has strain on your energy and maybe even more so than daily thoughts brought on by the worldy businesses.

"here you have the key to solving all the problems on earth and you see it as causing more problems?"
yes i see it as causing more problems, because like any tool such a powerful tool is dangerous in hands of foolish people.

"you are advocating we solve the problems on earth by remaining in the state of mind that gave rise to those problems. absurd!"
well the work has to be done in this state of mind like it or not, glimpses to higher states can become handy every now n then for guidance though.

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: budsicle]
    #4892837 -

"through the inquiry "who am i" one's true identity can be realized, thus raising the consciousness of the individual and allowing him to reach his highest potential for doing service to the world. here you have the key to solving all the problems on earth and you see it as causing more problems?"
ofcourse it sounds pretty on paper, but in practise when you lift urself to such a high throne you will distance urself from worldy problems, get this annoying holier-than-thou attitude, dealing with regular folk becomes even more painful and you?ll sound like a fool if u start to preach of some mystic "higher truths" or "true knowledge" etc etc..

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: budsicle]
    #4893005 -

^dude, you got some bad info from some people. When you have done self realization then you will be LOVE & LIGHT.

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: felix4life]
    #4893206 -

^^ my information comes usually from personal observation and experiments.

love & light ehh? dunno, sounds kinda boring. think i?ll just stick with my "lower state of mind" :wink:

when i?ve done self realization? now what the shit is that supposed to mean, thanks for proving my point that you?ll sound like a fool when u mindlessy start talkin of such things instead of staying in practical level

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: budsicle]
    #4893261 -

inside, from just sitting or listening, or not even listenning, just waiting, or not even waiting, just sitting and being alone,

you can seem to see the thing that is the same as in your friend, your mate, your child, your parent...

this need not be wrapped with words, and presented or exchanged. but you can abide with the indescribeable thing.

separately you can study (and yammer on about) how the mind and nature works, the time spent abiding/meditating gives more energy and a good point of reference to the rest of your time.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4893324 -

I like this Red. And I understand it. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: budsicle]
    #4893444 -

well the work has to be done in this state of mind like it or not, glimpses to higher states can become handy every now n then for guidance though.

if it hasn't worked for the previous few thousand years what makes you think it can work now? a higher understanding is the only thing that will solve the conflicts on earth.


ofcourse it sounds pretty on paper, but in practise when you lift urself to such a high throne you will distance urself from worldy problems, get this annoying holier-than-thou attitude, dealing with regular folk becomes even more painful and you?ll sound like a fool if u start to preach of some mystic "higher truths" or "true knowledge" etc etc..

did jesus distance himself from worldly problems or refuse to deal with regular folk/sound like a fool? no. as i explained when you live in higher consciousness you finally have the patience to deal with "ignorant folk" and tackle the seemingly impossible odds you're up against. just because you reached higher consciousness doesn't mean you need to become a preacher either. ramana maharshi never preached to anyone. his teachings are the simply the answers he gave when people asked him how to reach his state of consciousness.


^^ my information comes usually from personal observation and experiments.

love & light ehh? dunno, sounds kinda boring. think i?ll just stick with my "lower state of mind"

how does it sound boring? what is it that you find entertaining? darkness and hate?

when i?ve done self realization? now what the shit is that supposed to mean, thanks for proving my point that you?ll sound like a fool when u mindlessy start talkin of such things instead of staying in practical level

i have the found the pursuit of higher consciousness very practical. it helps me focus better on any activity i have to do.

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: felix4life]
    #4893567 -

This Maharshi guy is obviously a Hindu and not a Buddhist. I'd recommend focusing on Zen Buddhist meditation, as they are the ones that focus on meditation. Then again if you really want to believe in a self that bad, then you can listen to this guy instead.

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #4893648 -

maharshi doesn't teach the existnace of an individual self, he simply refers to all existance as "the Self". self realization means you realize that you are the Self. what do you buddhists say exists?

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Re: Meditation & Mind *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #4893713 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: Deviate]
    #4893748 -

Hindu's believe in a Self although they still realize that the Self is still at its core just part of the larger Self. I realize they still see the Atman as part of Brahman.

But Buddhism outright denies the Self completely and I think it removes a lot of the confusion that Hindus hold by trying to put forth a Self at all. Buddhism believes that reality is a 'vast field of mutually conditioning events' and completely denies the self. It's very determinism/materialism ish thing.

Looking back on what Maharshi is saying I guess he is hinting that there is no true 'self'. In any case the Hindu idea of Self and Universal Reality is confusing itself and Buddhism was right to completely throw any sort of self out the window.

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Re: Meditation & Mind [Re: dorkus]
    #4893752 -

The straightforward teaching of Ramana Maharshi is, in essence, akin to the 'direct pointing to the Mind' advocated by the best Zen teachings.

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