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OfflineSThomas
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Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 251
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!!
    #481504 - 12/06/01 02:02 AM (15 years, 2 days ago)

After months of searching, researching, over 300 km hiking, thousands of genus picked, hundreds identified, some great edibles, a few different Gymnopolis species, a questionable as to activity Stropharia aueruginosa...I found my first positive id on a psilocybe. The elusive Blue foot...which I understand is rare, and there are only four small, bad qaulity photos I have ever come accross. But due to mother natures kindness..extending our fall into December this year, and lot's of rain...I have found it. Ironically this was the first mushroom I had set out to find, and it is most likely the last for this season...allthough I have been saying that for some time now. Anyways eneugh of the babble, they were found growing in one of my favorite parks in wood mulch about a foot of mulch, over good quality soil, just after a rain, near a river. They were growing next to some type of shrub, just peeking out from some leaves. I could not believe my eyes, they had blue feet, with some bluing on the cap, gelatinous pelicule, and are of the correct size 1-4 cm cap (some were a little larger but not by much), 8 cm stem, more bulbous at the base, the right coloration etc. Purple brown spore prints...etc. I did snap some photos, allthough I only found two fullsize ones, a few stems of others, and a couple of smaller sized ones as well. I did remove some mycelium as I really need to try and grow these...because who know if I will find them againthis season, or any other for that matter. The photos should be back this week...at that time I will post them.

Cheers


My pics will come soon...cheers



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And that is all the news that's fit to print


Edited by SThomas (12/06/01 10:14 PM)


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OfflineLizard King
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Registered: 10/04/99
Posts: 1,998
Loc: GA
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: SThomas]
    #481750 - 12/06/01 11:10 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

I don't doubt that you did indeed find a psilocybe with blue feet, but you are confusing a few different species as one. Ps. caerulipes is nick named "bluefoot", but the mushrooms you have pictured above are Ps. caerulescens, nick named "derrumbes", a famed magic mushroom of mexico and also Ps. weilii's closest cousin.

Ps. caerulipes "bluefoot" is a very rare mushroom, but as far as I know it only grows on the east coast(aren't you in the west?) I think they have also been reported from mexico a few times.

I doubt you found either of the two species mentioned in this thread "Ps. caerulipes or Ps. caerulescens". You likely found an entirely different active Psilocybe species. I'm very interested in your find and would love to see some pics when you get them developed.


LK,


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OfflineLevi7
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Registered: 10/29/00
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: Lizard King]
    #481766 - 12/06/01 11:29 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

I read ST. Thomas' profile and it says he's a Northeasterner and his location is Ontario.
Well, that's good enough to consider he's found Ps. caerulipes. I don't think that it is this mushroom that he found, either. I think it is probably Ps. Weilli as well.
I'm thinking that Ps. cerulescens probably wouldn't be found that far north, especially in December. I could be wrong though.
Anyhow, St. Thomas, awesome find, man! :)
Stay cool!-Levi7.


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OfflineLizard King
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: Levi7]
    #481788 - 12/06/01 11:40 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

I don't think he found weilii, in fact I'm farily certain he didn't. If he is on the east coast, then there is a chance he did indeed find Ps. caerulipes. But still, the picture in his post is of Ps. caerulescens, not caerulipes. Ps. caerulescens as well as weilii are subtropical species and maybe just a little on the temperate side, I highly doubt they could be found as far north as Canada. IMO, Ps. caerulescens has never been found in America at all, it was reported to be found by murrill in 1923 in Alabama, but it is my opinion that what he found was Ps. weilii and not caerulescens.


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OfflineSThomas
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: Lizard King]
    #481825 - 12/06/01 12:30 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

No, I have indeed found the elusive bluefoot....caerulipes...This picture was found on a czech site and was listed as such...may not be though...and it is a bad picture. I am currently developing my roll of film...yes I am one of the only one left using negative film...hehehe. So I will show you what I found myself. I live on the Quebec/Ontario border in the Nations capital of Ottawa, and I am as surprised as anyone that I found these in december...or any mushrooms for that matter...wow what a season this has been, mild conditions, tonnes of rain...and about 1 1/2 months more time to look and research...wow. I will post my pics soon...also have lot's of Gym pics on the way as well...cheers...this is a happy day.


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Invisiblespores
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: SThomas]
    #481835 - 12/06/01 12:43 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

SThomas,

That pic is from Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World by Stamets, he lists them as Ps. caerulescens. I'm interested in seeing your pics, from your description they sound like cyans. On the caerulipes page in PMOTW, it says see also Psilocybe quebecensis and Ps. cyanescens. Did you consider cyans or quebecensis in your ID of them? The pic you posted of caerulescens macroscopically resembles cyans, and the habitat you found them in screams cyans, hehe. Just an idea. Can't wait for the pics :).

Good Hunting!!

DH


Edited by DethHed (12/06/01 12:47 PM)


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OfflineLevi7
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Registered: 10/29/00
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: spores]
    #481914 - 12/06/01 02:19 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Well, Dethhed, Ps. cyanescens doesn't actually resemble Ps. caerulipes in the least amount of macroscopy!
When Paul says to look at other mushrooms, I believe he is referring to the environmetal aspects as well as uniform growth.
Ps. cyanescens only grows in the PNW of the U.S. and has been found elsewhere in the U.S. (as Ps. azurescens has) from cultivated beds.
The nickname "Blue Foot" pobably came from a time when Psilocybes were not considered a genus and Easternern hunters simply labeled them the "Blue Foot". At that time, there was not much study in Psychadelic mushrooms, so the fact that the mushroom turned a blue color where bruised(or at the base because of growing pains! hehe!) simply was a definite characterization, considering there weren't any other wood-loving Psilocybe species.
We now know that there are many mushrooms that will bruise at the base and elsewhere, wherever twigs, winds, or animals might touch their sensetive skin! Hehe!
Hell, I've never picked any that turned up in that fashion(Even disctinctively different than Ps. cyanescens), but St. Thomas may very well have found Ps. caerulipes. Either way, I'm happy for him! :)\
Stay cool!-Levi7.


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OfflineLizard King
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Registered: 10/04/99
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: spores]
    #481995 - 12/06/01 03:45 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Just a side note about that Ps. caerulescens picture, it does not resemble Ps. cyanescens at all, but they do resemble weilii to a tee though, actually I belive that picture is actually of Ps. weilii, but thats just my opinion about the whole messed up caerulescens complex, which weilii should belong to, but instead a bunch of eager mycologists listed it as a different species so they could tag their name on yet another active psilocybe. I've picked weilii identical to pauls picture of caerulescens, and I've never seen caerulescens look like that except in pauls book, which leads me to belive that pic is actually of weilii.

About Sthomas find, I don't doubt he found what he says, I just thought he was on the west coast which would make caerulipes an almost impossible canidate. Congrats on your find, and can't wait to see pics, you always take some nice ones :) Please don't forget to post them though, there are only 2 pictures of this species, we really need some new and more acurate images!!

LK,


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Invisiblespores
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: Levi7]
    #482117 - 12/06/01 05:10 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Well, as we can see, none of us can agree on what they macroscopically resemble in pictures, so "macroscopic resemblance" is pretty damn subjective. I said they resembled cyans in that pic because of the general color and wavy cap margins. I never said anything about cyans resembling caerulipes Levi7, but can you honestly say they don't from the 4 or so existing pics, or do you actually have EXPERIENCE picking them that leads you to believe so? I just thought that since SThomas posted that particular pic, that was the one his find most resembled. And since it doesn't seem likely that caerulescens would be growing in mulch in Ontario during December, cyans might be a better guess. It wouldn't surprise me too much if they did grow in places other than the great PNW. If they look more like the pic at http://shroomhunter.netmegs.com/guide/pcaer.htm though, they're probably the real deal. I don't know about weilii since I've never picked them, but they would be worth considering in your ID also if LK says they can look like the ones in that pic.

DH


Edited by DethHed (12/06/01 05:53 PM)


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OfflineSThomas
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Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 251
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: spores]
    #482405 - 12/06/01 10:10 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Wow, did not know that I would start a debate with this one. Like I said, I found this pic on a Czech site listed along side the Audobon one.

Here are the only photos I know to exist of this species.


From MJshroomer's site



From that Czech site.


From some German site



From the Audobon guide



So I dunno, It kind of looks somewhat like all of them. But we all know about the variations between even the same species of mushroom. The facts are it has a blue foot, grows in the right place, stains a little blue on the stem when handled, and on the cap where damaged, has the right measurements, and has the right smell. I will be getting the pics back in a few days, and I will show you what it is that I found...I am pretty stoked about this. I even started to grow some of the mycelium that I took from the mulch bed, in order to make sure I get some more of these in the future, and I will eventually try to colonize other beds if it works.

Cheers...and thanks for all of the excitement and interest guys


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And that is all the news that's fit to print


Edited by SThomas (12/06/01 10:14 PM)


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OfflineLizard King
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Registered: 10/04/99
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Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: SThomas]
    #482496 - 12/06/01 11:45 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Its hard to tell the tone of someones words on the internet, I'm not getting hasty or anything like that, I just love debate :) So before I start again, I'm not trying to offend, just debate and state the facts.


Ok, SThomas, what you have posted above is two distinctly different species, completely different. The first two pictures are of Psilocybe caerulescens, the 3rd is a bogus pic of some weird species that is neither of the two species in question, the last pic is of Psilocybe caerulipes aka. "bluefoot", and is what your saying you found, and is the most likely canidate.

Dethed and Levi, I never said he should consider Ps. weilii as a canidate, they are way out of season and they would never grow that far north as it is a subtropical species only known from the south. I simply pointed out that Ps. weilii is a very close realative of Ps. caerulescens, actually in my opinion weilii is a variation of Ps. caerulescens, its defintely debateable.

Also, the picture of Ps. caerulescens you say macroscopically resembles Ps. cyanescens most certainly does not.(again, no offense :) Ps. cyanescen is a white stem, carmel cap with a wavy margin, Ps. caerulescens is yellow stemmed with a thick white sheath of fibrillose about half the way up the stem, it has a brown chestnut colored cap and is typically black in the center cap, the margin is sometimes wavy, but almost always irregular. There are more macro differences, but those are the most obvious.

So to sum it up, we have two different species here. The one SThomas possibly(or rather likely) found is Psilocybe caerulipes. Psilocybe caerulescens on the other hand is only known from mexico and other tropical countries.


LK,


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OfflineLizard King
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Registered: 10/04/99
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: Lizard King]
    #482502 - 12/06/01 11:56 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

About that third pic you posted in your last thread SThomas, I have seen it referred to as Ps. caerulipes before myself, but those are definitely NOT caerulipes :) If I remember correctly I saw that pic in high tmes as one of mexicos magic mushrooms, which is probably where this bogus mislabeled picture was born. I don't think its even an active species, if it is, I think it may be an type of agrocybe(sp?) if I remember correctly, could be way off base on that though. Anyways, that 3rd pic is not caerulipes or caerulescens, notcie how they have an annulus, niether of the two species in question have this feature. pluse size, color, and about everything else is wrong.


LK,


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OfflineSThomas
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: Lizard King]
    #482634 - 12/07/01 02:48 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

I agree LK, just thought I would show what I ahd found on the net as refered to caerulipes...so John pic is wrong I guess? Anyways, what I found looks the most like the Audobon picture, except they look larger in real life...and I don't think they are reasiticaly portrayed by the guide either...mine have distincly blue feet, and some bluing on the caps as well, If I have also not mentioned it before...they have purple brown spore prints and a removable gelatinous pelicule...and they shore do smell magic as well...am I the only one who uses smell to identify? hmmm, more people should, that is one main way I can conclude a positive id.

Cheers


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OfflineSThomas
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: SThomas]
    #482643 - 12/07/01 02:58 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Oh yeah and I forgot to mention, this is what science is alll about...thanks everyone for their valuable input...cheers


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OfflineSThomas
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: SThomas]
    #482649 - 12/07/01 03:06 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Oops...my sig did not work, will post it again/

Cheers:


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: SThomas]
    #482779 - 12/07/01 09:08 AM (15 years, 23 hours ago)

Hey St Thomas,

You shhrooms are most likely P. quebecensis. My photo is correct as those P. carulipes are the original photo of the original collection in Mexico's herbarium atr the instituto de Eocologia depostied and identified by Guzman.

Also the P. caerulipes wilkl become like cyanescens and turn up on the caps with age.

The stems on cerulipes are whitish to off white bluing extremely.

It was Smith who identified the species as bluefoot.

Lincoff named Stuntzii's bluefoot for lack of a better name not knowning they were called blue-ringers. Andrew weil named stuntzii's Washington Blue Veils, not knowning they also are in Oregon at the time.

While your species macroscopically resembles P. weilii.

The caerulipes in Stamets book are also correct in that the shrooms are a brownish, sometimes cinnamon brown to dark and they fade to a straw yello in drying as seen in the two images in stamets book.

Caerulipes have been found along the east coast of the Usa and in Michigan and several collections in Ohio, including some posted last year at the shroomery form Ohio.

Have a shroomy day.

Mj


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OfflineSThomas
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #482892 - 12/07/01 11:14 AM (15 years, 21 hours ago)

Hmm...interesting. Well I would have to say that out of all of the pics they do look most likt thew Audubon photo, except for the fact that that photo is not very realistic in that it shows not even a hint of blueing as mine do, on the base of the stem, where handled on the stem and on the cap...not masive blueing but slight, there was a lot more on the smaller specimen that I found...and they dry a very cubensis/straw like color too..with some of the blue intact. Now the only picture of the quebecensis that I have seen is on John's site...I will post it here...and maybe MJ can tell me what I am looking at, and the pointers as well?



Would be of great help, until I can get my film developed and show you exactly what I have discovered....would be very happy if it was quebecensis too...cheers.


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Invisiblespores
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: Lizard King]
    #482903 - 12/07/01 11:31 AM (15 years, 20 hours ago)

Oops, guess I misread your post, sorry for putting words in your mouth LK :) :). I still think the pic of caerulescens looks a little similar to cyans though, not totally, but there is a slight similarity IMO, hehehe ;) . The color "chestnut brown" is used in PMOTW to describe the caps of young cyanescens also. The major visible difference is the fibrillose stem, which I realized. But on the first pic he posted in this thread, it wasn't easy to see that the stem was yellow and fibrillose instead of white so I figured he could have overlooked it. Anyway, at the futility of arguing about what mushroom species "resemble" others in a picture, I'll stop here :) .

Good Hunting!!

DH


Edited by DethHed (12/07/01 01:51 PM)


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OfflineLevi7
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Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: spores]
    #484139 - 12/08/01 04:25 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Hello, Dethhed.
I was not trying to start an argument or debate whatsoever. I was just stating that Ps. caerulipes and Ps. cyanescens were not similar, macroscopically. I may have not explained why I think so.
I don't disagree with the fact that Ps. caerulipes' margin will turn up with age. Many Psilocybes will do that when they get older. I also cannot disagree with MJ's post from a few posts above! :)
Dethhead, you said that St. Thomas' description sounded like Ps. cyanescens. I understand that you were making an ideal identification from his description. I wasn't trying to discredit your knowledge, only adding info on the very small chance that Ps. cyanescens would be found in the area that St. Thomas lives in. I also wasn't trying to sound like a know-it-all either. You see, I wasn't only replying to you, Lizard King and St. Thomas. I was replying to the thread, adding some info, so that others that frequent the boards that might be reading the thread and never reply or even become members might gain some information to help them along the way.
Most of us have read the same books and have the same round-about knowledge on the subject. So if something wasn't mentioned and I happen to read the thread during that time, I will add input. I'm not adding the input, however, to discourage yours. Peace?
Anyhow, Hello Dethhed, My name is Levi. Pleased to meet you. Stay cool!
Back to the wood-loving Canadian mushroom! hehe!
Hey, the only pic I've seen a few pics of Ps. quebecensis and I think it looks more like a Ps. pelliculosa or maybe a Ps. semilanceata. I wouldn't have thought ahead to future growth and imaged Ps. quebecensis having that up-turned cap and wavy margin. Also, St. Thomas' mushroom's margin is curved in a manner that, to me, does not resemble other up-turned marigin mushrooms such as Ps. cyanescens and Ps. Stuntzii.
The only mushroom pictures I've seen that resembel St. Thomas' mushrooms are Lizard King's Ps. Weillis and Paul's Ps. caerulescens and Ps. Weilii. Again, this is my observation.
In any account, if this mushroom that St. Thomas found is indeed Ps. quebecensis, then I must say, "Killer Find!". If it is another species, Psilocybian "positively" of course, then it's still a Killer Find! Hehe!
I meant no offense to anyone else, nor did I intend to start a debate. So, stay cool!-Levi7.


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OfflineSThomas
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: The elusive Blue foot...(Ps. Caerulipes), found!!! [Re: Levi7]
    #484524 - 12/08/01 11:55 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks all for the constructive banter...hehe. I should be getting the photos back soon...just waiting for pay day. Then hopefully we will be able to put this to rest...but let's all remember, what we are doing here is excellent scientific research. Invaluable to the world, I am just happy to be a part of it.........cheers, and if MJ is around...do you have any more info on the quebecensis? I haven't been able to find any.

Cheers


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