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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: nonick]
    #4784599 -

come on...youre asserting that somehow "experiential backrounds" determine rationality and truth. NO! i dont feel that i need to explain that any further.

logic can only go from a set of premises to a conclusion. obviously the conclusion you reach is going to be dependent on the set of premises you have to work with. what is logical for one person to believe may not necessarily be logical for another person to believe. i am afraid you do need to explain further.

the god concept does not have meaning to anyone, because of the fact that it is a meaningless concept. people who go around telling themselves that god exists are just exhibiting their mental illness.

this whole "but it has meaning to me" thing has to stop! meaning to one person or another is so rediculous. concepts have objectively defined meanings that individuals either accept and work with or deny(hence raising their level of cognitive dissonance).



explain more clearly what you mean by meaningful and meaningless concepts.


and i never said that acceptance of the non-existence of god is a defining feature of rationality. i merely said that it is one conclusion gained through a rational though process.

but it is not necessarily the only rational conclusion.

but if youre simply saying God is meaningless concept because it means different things to different people i agree with you. but it can have meaning if defined within a certain framework.

Edited by Deviate (10/10/05 08:25 PM)

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: nonick]
    #4784828 -

"to get all trippy about the forum split...you can see how it fits in so nicely with what else is going on in the world at the moment. you have a western world who wants to move forward with rationality and tell the irrational to go screw themselves. but the irrational come back with bombs strapped to them. the rational must, as some point, say "weve had enough of this bullshit. your irrationality is a threat to my own life, and i must kill you in self defense."

And this statement in and of itself isn't irrational? you can't compare this board with the state of the world. furthermore, your opinions of suicide bombers can also be very scewed. In truth, not many people, especially on these boards knows what the hell is going on, either in iraq, or in life in general.

what is a meaningless concept? And if something is meaningless to you, does this mean it is meaningless for everyone else?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: kaiowas]
    #4785149 -

in my opinion the poster of this thread is just as capable of being irrational as you or i, he just doesn't seem to recognize this in himself.

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Deviate]
    #4785202 -

anyone is capable of being irrational. to me this post shows how ignorance and arrogance can go hand in hand, though that's very arrogant of me to say :wink:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: kaiowas]
    #4785391 -

of course everyone is capable of being irrational...


but deviate, i guess ill explain a bit further.. you said:
"logic can only go from a set of premises to a conclusion. obviously the conclusion you reach is going to be dependent on the set of premises you have to work with. what is logical for one person to believe may not necessarily be logical for another person to believe. i am afraid you do need to explain further. "

this "set of premises" are actually called axioms. all philosophical understanding is founded on the axioms. an axiom is an irreducible statement of fact that is logically undeniable.

there are three axioms. they are the same for each person. therefore, what is true for one is true for all. i require water to live, and understand that to be true-- it is also true for you that i need water to live. this biological fact cannot be denied. (although this fact is itself not an axiom because it is reducable)

do i need to explain any further?

please, read through www.whatisobjectivism.com

it is very brief, yet still somewhat comprehensive.

Edited by nonick (10/10/05 10:57 PM)

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: nonick]
    #4785629 -

that link was very interesting, especially the part about free will. yet i fail to see what it proves in relation to what i said. take giant squid for example, lets go back in time before giant squid were proven to exist. back then it could be perfectly logical for someone not to believe in giant squid based on the fact that there was no known evidence for their existance, yet obviously if you had seen a giant squid you would believe in them. so your experiences still play a roll in determining what is logical for you to believe. say you were known as a habitual liar and you claimed to have seen a giant squid, would it be logical to believe in your extra ordinary claim if you could produce no evidence that giant squid existed or that you had seen one? probably not. what is logical for one person to believe is not necessarily logical for another person.

Edited by Deviate (10/10/05 11:51 PM)

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Deviate]
    #4785641 -

Deviate said:
that link was very interesting, especially the part about free will. yet i fail to see what it proves in relation to what i said. take giant squid for example, lets go back in time before giant squid were proven to exist. back then it could be perfectly logical for someone not to believe in giant squid based on the fact that there was no known evidence for their existance, yet obviously if you had seen a giant squid you would believe in them. so your experiences still play a roll in determining what is logical for you to believe.


Actually, the logical thing back then would be suspended belief, not disbelief.


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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Silversoul]
    #4785660 -

i agree but thats not what the site he posted says. it asserts that extraordinary claims like the existance of giant squid are arbitrary and should be rejected until the person making the claim can provide proof. either way my point holds that what is logical for one person to believe is not necessarily logical for another person to believe if they have been presented with different information.

Edited by Deviate (10/10/05 11:54 PM)

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Deviate]
    #4785756 -

I predict I will be banned, I will likely be banned from the S&M group first for not wearing enough leather (though I really do love the stuff), then the P group will question my rationality, becasue I just random associate like gomp but implement good residual english usage.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: nonick]
    #4785843 -

Well.. you're wrong about one thing.. or a couple.
The rational people didn't push the spiritualists out. The spiritualists wanted their own forum. The rationalists bitched about it. And still are.


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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Shroomism]
    #4785863 -

some spiritualists have kidnapped the name, stolen the balancing act, and are behaving like terrorists. too bad homeland security is looking for muslims.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Shroomism]
    #4785889 -

Shroomism said:
The rationalists bitched about it. And still are.


Its WHAT WE DO BEST!

:grin:


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Rose]
    #4785891 -

Apparently.
Although it appears some of you are better at insults and superiority complexes.


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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Shroomism]
    #4785895 -

You are an asshole.

:wink:


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Rose]
    #4785896 -

I know this. Acceptance is key :wink:


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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Shroomism]
    #4785905 -

:smile:

I love you man!


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Rose]
    #4785911 -

I love you too man :laugh:

I really am an asshole though.
Or at least, have extreme potential to be one under the right circumstances.


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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Shroomism]
    #4785913 -

just more territory to get kicked out of i guess
you are both right - more than you know.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Shroomism]
    #4785914 -

ie: To the guy who breaks your bong.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: the shroomery S&P forum split: an advancement in consciousness [Re: Rose]
    #4785925 -

nah material possessions don't really bother me. It's more name callers :tongue:


redgreenvines.. are you saying you're going to actively try and get kicked out?


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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