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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Shroomism]
    #4778202 -

Excellent.

One more question:

Which mods will be assigned to this forum?
Are both the forums going to be modded by those who "fit in" with the crowd in which they will govern, thereby lessening the chance of improper modship?



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4778222 -

Yes, basically.

These are the people that have been nominated for the philosophy forum:

trendal, Annom, Phluck, Phred, you


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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4778224 -

Swami, Diploid, Skorpivo, Veritas...all good candidates for this one.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Shroomism]
    #4778247 -

Aw shucks. I'm flattered.

I would vote for Veritas. Diploid, Swami and Paradigm would also make good candidates.

And Phred would be an excellent mod.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4778269 -

Yes yes, Paradigm indeed. While I think Phred would make a great moderator here(and any forum for that matter) I like him in PA&L.
I think it is better to have mods that are very active in their forums.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: daimyo]
    #4778286 -

Hmm, let's hope Phred pops in and see what he has to say.

Edit: Actually, nevermind, it turns out he's already a mod of this forum. :thumbup:



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Diploid]
    #4778419 -

Diploid said:
Spirituality is about discussing, analyzing, and critiquing your beliefs to see if they make sense and changing them if they don't. This is fully compatible with philosophy; indeed, it is the core of philosophy.

Spirituality and philosophy coexist naturally. It is this forum that is dysfunctional.


i dissagree. spirituality is about consciousness ( matters of the spirit). you don't need to discuss or analyze your beliefs to be spiritual, you don't even need to have any firm beliefs. spirituality is not about intellectuall knowledge, it is about personal growth. it is the evolution and resolution of your personal psychology. i think lau tzu said best when he said "the scholar gains everyday but the taoist loses everyday". sure spiritual insights give rise to philosophocal systems but spirituality should not be confused with philosophy. philosophy is much more about argument than intuition or inner knowing.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Deviate]
    #4778434 -

maybe the actual philosophical debates are more about argument but to actually be able to debate and form ideas i think takes intuition and inner knowledge....with out them there would be no argument.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Deviate]
    #4778452 -

i dissagree

So, hypothetically, let's say you hold beliefs that don't make any sense, that hold you back in life, and that make you unhappy.

You think it's better to stagnate and cling irrationally to those beliefs rather than to question them and in so doing perhaps come to better beliefs? Alright...

it is about personal growth

How can you grow if you're unwilling to question and revise your beliefs?

you don't need to discuss or analyze your beliefs

That is stagnation, not growth.

philosophy is much more about argument than intuition or inner knowing.

Philosophy, above all else, is the search for Truth. What can be more spiritual than that?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Diploid]
    #4778494 -

Quote:
Philosophy, above all else, is the search for Truth.


:thumbup:

Do you think there is anything philosophical about discussing ideas (spiritual or mystical things) that you don't believe are true but find it entertaining to discuss?

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Diploid]
    #4778525 -

i dissagree

So, hypothetically, let's say you hold beliefs that don't make any sense, that hold you back in life, and that make you unhappy.

You think it's better to stagnate and cling irrationally to those beliefs rather than to question them and in so doing perhaps come to better beliefs? Alright...

no, where did i say that?

How can you grow if you're unwilling to question and revise your beliefs?

you can't. you must be willing to potentially let go of all your beliefs.

That is stagnation, not growth.

how do you reach that conclusion? are you saying that if i stop posting at the shroomery i will cease to grow because i am no longer discussing my beliefs? that is absurd.
Philosophy, above all else, is the search for Truth. What can be more spiritual than that?



nothing but philosophy is very much confined to intellectual truth. if i reach an understanding or a level of awareness that i am unable to fully communicate to others or that grants me insights which i am unable to prove intellectually it doesn't really fall under the realm of philosophy.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: MJF]
    #4778531 -

MJF said:
maybe the actual philosophical debates are more about argument but to actually be able to debate and form ideas i think takes intuition and inner knowledge....with out them there would be no argument.


absolutely and that is why i come here. i simply believe there is a gap between the inner knowledge and the language we can use to describe it. spirituality recognizes this gap.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Deviate]
    #4778541 -

sure it does...you're just unable to prove it.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: MJF]
    #4778577 -

Do you think there is anything philosophical about discussing ideas (spiritual or mystical things)

Of course. Like I said, that's the whole point of philosophical discussion.

The problem here occurs when someone has ideas that are full of logical contradictions (God is all loving but created a world where kids die horribly of leukemia), inconsistencies (aliens abduct people all the time but no abductee has ever come back with an alien fiber or bacteria that rubbed off on their shorts), and holes (the government has physic remote viewers on the payroll but somehow they missed North Korea's secret nuclear bomb development project) and get their panties in a bunch when anyone points these things out.

If those people were truly spiritual, they wouldn't take personally that someone points out these glaring flaws in their beliefs. Instead, they would discuss the flaws in an honest search for the truth, and if their beliefs are in the end found lacking, they would dump them and form new, more consistent beliefs.

Around here, that rarely happens.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: MJF]
    #4778578 -

MJF said:
Quote:
Philosophy, above all else, is the search for Truth.


:thumbup:

Do you think there is anything philosophical about discussing ideas (spiritual or mystical things) that you don't believe are true but find it entertaining to discuss?


I for one would respect this forum much more if it were used for hardcore philosophical musings.  The threads on aliens and freaky New Age stuff always turned me off.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4778585 -

I like some of the unknown intelligient species talk and think it has a place here...but the ufo stuff needs to go somewhere else.

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Diploid]
    #4778600 -

Diploid said:
Do you think there is anything philosophical about discussing ideas (spiritual or mystical things)

Of course. Like I said, that's the whole point of philosophical discussion.

The problem here occurs when someone has ideas that are full of logical contradictions (God is all loving but created a world where kids die horribly of leukemia), inconsistencies (aliens abduct people all the time but no abductee has ever come back with an alien fiber or bacteria that rubbed off on their shorts), and holes (the government has physic remote viewers on the payroll but somehow they missed North Korea's secret nuclear bomb development project) and get their panties in a bunch when anyone points these things out.

If those people were truly spiritual, they wouldn't take personally that someone points out these glaring flaws in their beliefs. Instead, they would discuss the flaws in an honest search for the truth, and if their beliefs are in the end found lacking, they would dump them and form new, more consistent beliefs.

Around here, that rarely happens.


while its true that a spiritually mature person would have no attachment to their beliefs what you see as a contradiction might not be seen as a contradiction to another person. for example prove that an all loving God would not create a world where a children die of leukemia. you cannot. in this case you are attatched to the belief that there is no possible way an all loving God could create a world where childrein suffer from leukemia.

Edited by Deviate (10/09/05 07:43 PM)

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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Diploid]
    #4778602 -

Diploid said:
So, hypothetically, let's say you hold beliefs that don't make any sense, that hold you back in life, and that make you unhappy.

You think it's better to stagnate and cling irrationally to those beliefs rather than to question them and in so doing perhaps come to better beliefs? Alright...


What if you hold on to beliefs that make you happy and help you succeed in life, but they are irrational? What if rational beliefs would derail you into unhappiness?

Diploid said:
Philosophy, above all else, is the search for Truth. What can be more spiritual than that?



Philosophy is the attempted search for truth, and it can be tackled in a mathematical way if you choose to. How this applies to the individual through spirituality is up for grabs. Becoming a powerful, influential, successful and remembered human being can be accomplished by holding irrational beliefs. It may also be these irrational beliefs that help someone succeed.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: Deviate]
    #4778633 -

for example prove that an all loving God would not create a world where a children die of leukemia, you cannot

Ultimately, nothing can be proved.

But, in a philosophical (or spiritual) context, it can be shown that there is a contradiction in an all-loving God who visits horrible illness and death upon innocent children.

Not proof, but certainly enough to shake the God belief-system of anyone honestly seeking Truth.

Those seeking justification of their beliefs rather than Truth at this point start calling me a jerk or an asshole or wonder publicly about how my mother didn't hug me enough, then they start PMing the mods. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so is spirituality not welcomed here anymore [Re: looner2]
    #4778649 -

What if you hold on to beliefs that make you happy and help you succeed in life, but they are irrational? What if rational beliefs would derail you into unhappiness?

Belief in irrational falsehoods are always wrong.

It's belief in irrational falsehoods that have us in the Iraq quagmire.

It's irrational falsehoods that are at the foundation of drug prohibition around the world.

It's irrational falsehoods the egg on those who blow themselves up in crowds of innocent bystanders in the middle east.

It's irrational falsehoods that fated Galileo to life in prison for stating the obvious.

It's irrational falsehoods that permitted Ms. Cleo to make a fortune until she got too greedy.

The list goes on and on...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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