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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Genetic Mutation (Potency).
    #475085 - 11/30/01 06:59 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

?Bypassing Control of Secondary Metabolism. Since the production of secondary metabolites is affected by genetically determined mechanisms ? derepression (induction), catabolite regulation, and feedback regulation it is clear that mutation should have a major effect on the production of secondary metabolites. Indeed, the chief factor responsible for the 100- to 1000- fold increases in production of antibiotics from the time of their discovery to the present is mutation.?
-Advances in Biochemical Engineering volume 1

From what I have read exposing a microorganism (or any organism for that matter) to UV radiation is a common way of creating mutant strains. At the bottom of this web page is some good info on lights that will generate the right UV radiation that will mutate yeasts, I am sure they will mutate fungi as well. Here is what they said:

In reply to:


Where you can buy UV lamps
The quartz-halogen lamp that we have used is Model 3030 Quartz Halogen Lamp Fixture manufactured by Lights of America, Walnut, CA 91789. It is distributed through K-MART stores and some hardware stores. It sells for $10 to $20 and must be wired to a power cord. Mount it on a secure stand at a distance at least 8 inches above the Petri plate, to keep the heat at an acceptable level. At this distance an exposure of 3 minutes will give a survival fraction of 0.1 with the sensitive strain G948-1C.
Fluorescent UV lamps and germicidal lamps are sold by many vendors. One source that carries all three of the lamps whose spectra are illustrated in Figure 3 is Cole Parmer Instrument Co. (800-323-4340). They sell 15 watt tubes under the following catalog numbers: G09815-55 (UV-A), G09815-63 (UV-B), and G09815-59 (UV-C). A safe enclosure for using these lamps is described in this volume.




There are other ways to mutate a organism, but all of the other ways that I have read would probably need a lab, and would be impractical for home experimentation.

The point of this is that by mutation someone might be able to find a strain of mycelium that will overproduce psilocybin and psilocin. The mutated mycelium might not produce mushrooms, but hell if the mycelium produces 100 times the normal amounts of the good stuff who needs mushrooms.

Has anyone ever played around with genetics or created genetic mutants?


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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


Edited by Humidity (12/01/01 03:46 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Genetic Mutation. [Re: Humidity]
    #475090 - 11/30/01 07:04 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Yeah but wouldn't there also be a good possibility of creating a mutant strain that wouldn't be so friendly? Who should we test it on?

Leaf


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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Genetic Mutation. [Re: ]
    #476129 - 12/01/01 04:04 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

I would think that if the mycellium is safe to eat normally than any mutants would also be safe to eat. Mutations should only produce the same stuff that the normal mycellium produces the only difference if that the metabolic pathways will be modified and certain compounds in the mycellium will be present in more that normal quantities (hopefully psilocin and psilocybin), but if not it will be some other compound on the normal metabolic pathway.
I am no expert on this, so I figured the topic would be good for discussion.


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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Offlineduncan8r
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Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 91
Loc: Syd, Australia
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Genetic Mutation. [Re: Humidity]
    #476162 - 12/01/01 04:52 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Dude,

The UV light may produce mutants but in a very uncontrolled manner. Ive used this method to "knock out" metabolic pathways in bacteria, but Ive no experience with fungi. The amount of work required to isolate the "new mutant" strain is quite large with hundreds, nay thousands of agar plates required. And for every mutation that was generated and lasted more than a few generations, there were about a million that had no mutation or a lethal genetic damage.

Im waiting for someone to develop a high replication plasmid or Yeast artifical chromosome (YAC) to transfer the psilo pathway around..... or transfer genes into agrobacterium tumerfacians and then infect a mango plant.... blue mango's...... arghhhhhhhhh

now Im droolin....


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Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. --Dave Barry


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Anonymous

Re: Genetic Mutation. [Re: duncan8r]
    #476625 - 12/02/01 01:09 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

The genetic engineering possibilities for creating stoning materials is very exciting indeed.

Leaf


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Offlinefelixhigh
KIA
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Registered: 06/24/01
Posts: 7,543
Loc: Ly
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Genetic Mutation (Potency). [Re: Humidity]
    #476678 - 12/02/01 02:40 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

don't do that to the shroomies, do you wanna play god???


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Offline_JJ_
PsychedelicRevolutionary
Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 369
Loc: NSW, Australia
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Genetic Mutation (Potency). [Re: felixhigh]
    #476684 - 12/02/01 02:49 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Religious reasons shouldn't be taken into consideration regarding scientific experimentation. If you don't want anything to do with it then don't.. just don't push your views on others.
We've done much the same with many different things - for example large amounts of insulin are being produced for diabetics as a result of genetic engineering.. this is good for those that are sick - are you saying we should deny them what they need because it's not god's way?
Maybe in the case of psilocybin it's not a neccesity - but if it helps people in self-discovery and allows them to become more spiritual and better themselves then why deny an easier method of accessibility to them?


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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Genetic Mutation. [Re: duncan8r]
    #477027 - 12/02/01 01:20 PM (15 years, 4 days ago)

duncan8r

Like you said this would not be a easy task, but it would be worth playing around with. Penicillen and many other drugs are made all the time by mutants because they overproduce so much of the desired drug. If someone was to apply the same concepts to overproduce psiloc(yb)in then even if they only found a mutant that only produced 5 to 10 times the normal amounts than it would be a great find.

I see people all of the time trying to find a way to increase potency and many of the ideas are interesting, but if you really want to increase potency than you have to do it the way that all other secondary metabolites are produced.That is by controlling the optimal environmental conditions (for metabolite formation NOT growth), using the optimal substrate and using genetic mutations that produce much more of the desired drug.


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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


Edited by Humidity (12/02/01 01:24 PM)


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Offlinegray1
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Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 430
Loc: brooklyn
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Genetic Mutation. [Re: Humidity]
    #481859 - 12/06/01 01:07 PM (15 years, 16 hours ago)

it would be much more efficient to find out what the mutations have been that result in increased production then try to duplicate the mutation in an analagous pathway/system in the fungi.
random uv irradiation and mutant screening would be a good way to waste years of your life.

can we collectively do a literature search for the genes involved in the biosynthetic pathways for psilocin and psilocibin? if you want special mangos, we need the complete pathway first.


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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Genetic Mutation. [Re: gray1]
    #483123 - 12/07/01 03:44 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I think that it would be more realistic than trying to map the entire pathway of a certain strain of fungi and then genetically alter it to do exacty what you want it to do.

I am looking for more information on the process of creating the mutants, UV exposure times, and any other information regarding UV mutations. Anyone that knows about this kind of stuff please post your info here.

It would be nice to have a step by step process on the creation of mutants and what to do with them once they are created. I don't think that it would be a waist of time to try and create a new mutatant strain that is 10, 100, or 1000 times as potent as the original. Even if it took a year once you have it it would be would be well worth the time you put into it.

Does anyone know of a way to measure the amount of psiloc(yb)in in mycellium? If there was a realistic way of doing this at home then finding the overproducing mutant strain would be much easier.


--------------------
_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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