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 mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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 Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms 
#90232 - 10/18/99 03:39 AM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Colchicine works by doubling the chromosomes in plants and animals (scary scary shit). I personally couldn't work out in my mind when the best time to use it would be, at the spore stage, or at the mycelium stage. It would theoretically be possible the treat the spores which would germinate into double chromosome hyphae. If two of these hyphae mated, you would get mycelium with double sets of chromosomes. But, treat the double mycelium and could you actually cause any new growth to have still more chromosomes? A mushroom with four pairs of chromosomes instead of the usual one pair would be unique indeed.
BTW colchicine has been covered in this and the cultivation forums in the past. Use the search function if you want more info on it.------------------
"...From a certain point of view..."
-Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90235 - 10/18/99 12:59 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sounds like someone read this off of the ADM. I am extremely upset!!! Not at you, at me. I never should have brought up this subject. It is extremely easy to make, making it DEADLY to children and the inexperienced who think they can make a super 'shroom. I cannot overemphasise how DANGEROUS this chemical is! I have stacks of notes on using this on plants and fungi, yes it does make super shrooms, but in order to do so, you would have to be an experienced chemist with years of experience in a lab. Case in point:making lsd from ergot. If you don't understand the procedure, you will die a slow, horrible death. Cholchicine was used with marijuana to make diploids, and some inexperienced growers killed a lot of people, and injured more! Please, do not mess with this stuff! Their are many growth hormones to boost yields to use, but there are warnings with them as well, especially bovine pituary extract. You can mess with someones body not knowing what will happen with residual effects. You will be unknowingly be POISONING people. I would be devastated if even 1 injury occurred because of my slip of the tongue! It would be best if this topic was deleted, 0.10 percent?!? I almost had a heart attack! DO NOT EXPERIMENT WITH CHOLCHICINE! DEADLY POISONOUS!!!
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90236 - 10/18/99 04:55 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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I guessed this to be the case. I had this idea for a few years now but haven't said anything about it until now. But I understand how DANGEROUS this substance is and that is why I emphasized that nobody should do it. I just wanted to know if it had been done before and any details that may be available on it. I wasn't sure about the amount of colchicine that should be used, and I realize I should have mentioned that. I have also read somewhere that colchicine can be obtained from a plant source. Oh, by the way, what is ADM? Well, this was just a theory to me before now. I wasn't sure of the action by which colchicine worked and I am surprised that I was somewhat on track with it. But, then again, that is why I posted it.Thanks, PsiliPharm
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 Booger
addict
Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 164
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90238 - 10/19/99 02:55 AM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have a funny feeling we're all up to our ears in chemicals that would have mutagenic effects on mushrooms. The fumes from isopropyl alcohol, petroleum ether, and ammonia come to mind. Whether this would make a super shroom, wierd looking shroom, or dead shrooms I have no idea.
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90239 - 10/19/99 11:42 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes, it does make ya think and I'm not exactly sure what other mutagenic chemicals would have an effect on mushrooms in any way. But, if anyone does, I would like to know just for the sake of knowing.Laters, Youjutsu
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90240 - 10/20/99 12:48 AM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok. Here goes. I really mean this in the most polite manner neccesary. "Dr Lindeman FUCK OFF!!!!! (editors note: mycofile used to be rather hotheaded and certainly dosn't want old shit started back up. He would alter the post, but finds no trouble laughing at himself and the way he conducted himself in the past. All apologies to all that this conduct affected in the past  ) ok, now allow me to applogize for that outburst. I can't take it back, but I owe you an explanation now. 1st let me compliment you on good points. I admire your concern for people's well being. I admire your dedication, assuming you have the years of chemist experience and lab technique that you say is neccessary. It is noble of you to want to protect the "children". Now for why I took/take offense regardless of your good points. 1) Information is not a bad thing. No posts should ever be deleted. Plans for nuclear bombs lead to spaceships that are now 1/2 way to the nearest star system now, see my point? Methamphetamine recipes educate the public to the idiocy of our current laws regulating(?) it.
2) I've never been to ADM
3) You do not need years of experience as a chemist in a lab. In 9th grade biology, we used crocus bulb juice to cause polyploidism in strawberry plants. Using the same careful techniques from Bio Lab, I made some polyploid herb. It wasn't super, but I didn't have much variety, only 3 plants survived the treatment and all were males. I was in 9th fucking grade! (also shows that "super shrooms" are not a gaurunteed outcome)
4) I am not a kid anymore, and even when I was, I used it successfuly and safely. Not from luck, but dedication to the same rules you probably use in your lab. All kids aren't dumb. All non-kids aren't non-dumb.
5) ANY research on colchicine makes it's toxicity instantly and blatantly obvious. If people misuse information without doing their own research, they are at fault not you or me. Almost all info on colchicine says not to use it. OK, there you go. Information is good, and at worst neutral. I'm a little tired of "professionals" looking down on anyone who does the same thing without pay. Everyone from biologists to actors, the ego trip is bothersome and insulting. Even without a degree or a carreer in something, I can become just as proficient on my own.
Everybody should read about colchicine, and enrich your knowledge. Leave the testing to those who feel comfortable taking the obvious risks.
If someone has said something better than you, don't paraphrase it, give them credit.
DO NOT EXPERIMENT WITH CHOLCHICINE! DEADLY POISONOUS!!! -the Dr. and I agree(if people don't listen to me, it's on their conscience, not mine)
FYIO bulbs of autum crocus are the bio source for colchicine
B+ was supposedly mutated with colchicine by Mr. Genetics. I don't have access to a lab anymore where I could verify this, however.
Most importantly, any biologically altered organisms should not be consumed, or even handled carelessly. Offspring of the mutant are safe with most chemicals. ------------------
"...From a certain point of view..."
-Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi [This message has been edited by mycofile (edited June 19, 2000).]
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90241 - 10/20/99 01:06 AM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Okay, aside from that, I would like to ask the good doctor some specifics regarding polyploidism. I understand the basic ideas of not allowing the chromosomes to separate during mitosis. The only experience/case studies I know of used plants. The extra stage of the hyphae state is what is confusing me.
Do treated spores create hyphae with a full pair of chromosomes as I would assume?
If so, do these hyphae join to create polyploid mycelium? Or must it be mycelium that is treated?
Could mycelium from treated spores be treated again? Why or why not.You see, it seems to me that with fungi you have two times in one generation where you could double the chromosomes(spores and mycelium), as opposed to plants which only have one. Also, what if a treated hyphae were to team up with a non-treated one? Could it happen? Would it produce mycelium with just one extra chromosome rather than a full extra set.
If all these questions are yes, then it seems to me like you could produce mature fruits that have several combinations of extra pairs of chromosomes, or just extra single chromosomes.
How about helping clear some of these questions up. If you would prefer to carry this on privately, please e-mail me with the link above,
thank-you very much
mycofile
------------------
"...From a certain point of view..."
-Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM
Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,720
Loc: 613
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90242 - 10/20/99 09:28 AM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Is colchicine considered a mutagen at all? It seems that creating polyploid individuals is a different process than causing mutations in an individual's genome.
Perhaps something like bromouracil would be more practical if one wanted to cause mutations. UV light would probably be a safer method(for the researcher anyway.)
It might be interesting if you could create a mutant that no longer was able to hydroxylate DMT at the 4-position. The mushrooms would then contain DMT instead of psilocin and psilocybin.
Perhaps this should go without saying, but _don't eat the mushrooms until the next generation!_
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90243 - 10/20/99 05:25 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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mycofile-
It sounds like colchicine causes nondisjunction in the chromosomes during meiosis (could be meiosis I or II). If this is the case, then the gametes (spores) would have two nuclei (dikaryotic). This would be a very interesting experiment. Imagine, your entire cake would be dikaryotic and without the hassles of cloning. However, there could be some problems down the road if the mushrooms generated from the dikaryotic spores were sterile (heaven forbid! Egad!). I'd do this experiment if I had no value to my own chromosomes. But if a spore company out there were to do this successfully, they could corner the market with their "super-efficient, fast colonizing" spores. I'd buy 'em. ------------------
Talk to a man about himself and he will listen for hours.
-Benjamin Disraeli
--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90244 - 10/20/99 06:13 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Actually Sclorch, colchicine comes into play in mitosis. I believe during metaphase. If i remember correctly, it interupts the actions of the spindle fibers?(damn its been a long time, those things that form, to separate the newly doubled chromosomes and pull them to opposite ends of the cell). You see, this ends with a cell that started mitosis and doubled its chromosomes, but didn't actually reproduce. Once it does reproduce, mitosis starts at the beginning and each new cell has double chromosomes just like the parent.
See how that could be done several times with fungi? Spores germinate forming hyphae. Hyphae mate, forming mycelium. Could the fungi be treated at both the spore level, and the mycelium level? I don't know. Anybody?------------------
"...From a certain point of view..."
-Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90245 - 10/21/99 01:04 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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So it causes nondisjunction in mitosis, thus rendering the new cells disomic (two sets of chromosomes)?------------------
Talk to a man about himself and he will listen for hours.
-Benjamin Disraeli
--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90246 - 10/21/99 01:07 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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And no, is couldn't be treated at the spore level, unless each spore is treated separately. Otherwise you have disomic spores mating and who knows what would happen to the shrooms then (maybe they'd be retarded like Down's Sydrome- i.e. trisomy 21)
--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90247 - 10/21/99 02:40 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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why fuck around with mutagens at all? wouldn't it be much more practical and safe to just use strain selection? finding the best characteristics of current strains and isolating them. thats probably all that any cannabis developers due. it would also explain why the PF strain is so uniquely suited to brown rice flour.
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90248 - 10/22/99 12:19 AM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Major,
At this point, I'm just interested in possibilities and theory. But to answer your question, if you just consider it "genetic improvement" instead of "mutation", it is worth it. Without this type of process, many fruit and vegetable farmers would be nowhere near as productive. Polyploid strains are very common in strawberries for example. They grow much much larger and quicker than their non "improved" brethren. Many great weed strains have also been produced by this, I've seen several that yielded colas much larger than their parents.
Sclorch, you got it. I have done a lttle more reading on this, and it seems highly unlikely that hyphae with doubled chromos could join with normal spores. It would take two treated hyphae to join. So it seems that the spore/hyphae stage is a good time for treatment. Now, how about the mycelium stage?
BTW the research I did, was chasin links from Dr. Rush Wayne's (h202 guy) link page.
Yeah, you would probably end up with some down syndromers, and autistic shrooms would be kinda scary, but did you ever see pictures of those russian lady atheletes that had an extra Y chromosome? Man, they were fierce! That's what I want! A strain that grows and fruits and competes like a russian bear-lady olympiad!------------------
"...From a certain point of view..."
-Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM
Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,720
Loc: 613
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90249 - 10/22/99 08:25 AM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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You're right: we're not really talking about a "mutation" at all.
Polyploid individuals of "lower" organisms seem more likely to survive and benifit from the condition than we would. A human with 92 chromosomes could not possibly survive, but it would probably be a different story for a mushroom mycelium. More complex organisms have more things that can go wrong with them.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90250 - 10/23/99 05:18 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Would somebody with some balls please try this?
(note: I've recently been castrated so I don't qualify, ouch.)------------------
Talk to a man about himself and he will listen for hours.
-Benjamin Disraeli
--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90251 - 10/23/99 08:54 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, my balls must be about as big as my monitor, cuz I might. With one little bonus thrown in for good measure. Forget about cubensis, I'm fucking around with the Pan trop! HEE HEE HEE HEE!!!! I don't think I'll post much information about my experiments untill I have conclusive results, It will be too much hassel as I will be doing many many experiments! 
BTW I think Mr G used colchicine to fuck around with some strains, but alas, he's never around because some fuckers were dicks to him because he couldn't spell.------------------
I can't go on talking like this. I just had a mental picture of Angel....
Now I'm speechless.
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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oDin
Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 5,789
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90252 - 10/28/99 12:54 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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colchicine is specifically indicated for the treatment and relief of pain in attacks in acute gouty arthritis. It is recommended for regular use between attacks as a prophylatic measure.....warnings: arrests cell division in animals and plants. It has adversely affected spermatogenesis in humans and some animal species under certain conditions. pregnancy catergory C has been shown to be teratogenic in mice. adequate studies have not been performed in humans. Use only if potential benefit justifies the potential risk to fetus adverse reactions: various bone marrow depression and anemias(I can send specifics if anybody wants them.) clochicine should be administered with caution to aged or debilitated patients. just thought this might give some info to those who might want it. This drug is used alot with gout patients. later
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90253 - 10/29/99 01:09 AM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sure, I'd like more specifics. Where are you getting them from?------------------
I can't go on talking like this. I just had a mental picture of Angel....
Now I'm speechless.
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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oDin
Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 5,789
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90254 - 10/29/99 05:39 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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well I am a pharmacist so I walk over and pick up a bottle of colchicine and read the package insert. Here is the adverse reactions: Bone marrow depression with aplastic anemia, agranulocytosis or thrombocytopenia(long term therapy), peripheral neuritis, purpura, myopathy, loss of hair, reversable azoospermia, dermatosis, hypersensitivity, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, nausea.lab test abnormalities: elevated alkaline phosphatase and AST. More? I am more than willing to offer any assistance I can. I usually don't check messages here in expermentation much so if you dont get an answer fast enough PM me. later
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oDin
Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 5,789
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90256 - 10/30/99 02:40 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have had that said so many times I can't count. Doesn't help when your friends all like to party. But there is paper trail with with rx drugs. Hey Moe did you get the PM I sent you? I would like to know what you think. I was thinking I could even send it to one of the spore vendors and they in turn could send it to the recipient if you all wanted to keep the winners address unknown.
Yes I deal drugs :-)damn wish I could type [This message has been edited by oDin (edited October 30, 1999).]
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90257 - 11/07/99 11:17 PM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok, so this has been done to shrooms and worked. But has it ever been done on Ergot fungus, Amanitas, or any Tryptamine-containing Plants?[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited November 08, 1999).]
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oDin
Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 5,789
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90259 - 11/09/99 11:31 AM (24 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey Moe I sent you another PM. Today 11-9-99
I am trying to keep it a secret he he
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90260 - 12/06/99 09:49 PM (24 years, 10 months ago) |
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Suggestion: Do this to all of the species listed in this thread, Other Tryptamine-containing Shrooms.Also, any of the species' listed here in this post at Lycaeum's Main Forums in the Visionary Plants section: (Almost) All Visionary Plants and Mushrooms The above link may not work and you may have to log in to view it so go to the section and look for it if your interested. -PsiliPharm
[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 18, 1999).]
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Crobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/03/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90261 - 12/07/99 06:40 PM (24 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dr. Charles Lindeman is right.
Maybe you do not need to be chemist, but scientist definitely to do such thing.
Do not try this unless you are qualified.
And mycofile, thing about B+, where did you heard it? I am pretty interested in those real experiments done on psychoactive substances.
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Crobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/03/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90262 - 12/07/99 06:42 PM (24 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dr. Charles Lindeman is right.
Maybe you do not need to be chemist, but scientist definitely to do such thing.
It is all project that has to be done properly if you want any even half success
Do not try this unless you are qualified.
And mycofile, thing about B+, where did you heard it? I am pretty interested in those real experiments done on psychoactive substances.
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90263 - 12/08/99 02:39 AM (24 years, 10 months ago) |
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The thing about B+ made it's way around the web in the early days of the strain. The problem is that Mr G, the creator of the B+ (as well as the B the A and Ryche's TC among others) has disappeared. Apparently, nobody that ever had contact with him has heard from him. Or, maybe they are just protecting his privacy, in any case I can't get a hold of him. His old e-mail addy I had used in the past to chat with him is never answered, but the messages seem to be getting sent (hotmail usually cancels accounts if the mail isn't checked at least ocassionly). Who knows, perhaps is gone for good?------------------
-From a registered Mad Scientist "From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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Crobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/03/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90264 - 12/08/99 11:16 AM (24 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks Mycofile
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aaron
Pioneering spirit
Registered: 10/17/99
Posts: 100
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90265 - 12/10/99 12:10 AM (24 years, 10 months ago) |
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Colchicine has the remarkable property of doubling the chromosome number in a wide variety of plants when applied in concentrations of 0.1 to 0.3 percent.This drug interferes with spindle formation in mitosis.
Seed treatment(usually for 24 hours)produces tetraploidy in about 5 percent of the surviving seedlings.(1 out of 100 live)
It can be applied to the growing points of seedlings or large plant by a variety of methods.
Most valuable tool to overcome sterility assocaiated with interspecific hybrids and to transferring genes from other species,to creat a NEW specie!
aaron
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90266 - 12/11/99 01:11 AM (24 years, 10 months ago) |
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aaron, how could you use colchicine to add genetic material from another species?------------------
-From a registered Mad Scientist "From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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aaron
Pioneering spirit
Registered: 10/17/99
Posts: 100
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90267 - 12/11/99 04:52 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok, if you had 2 species that were incompatable with each other you could treat to induce tetraploid in both species and cross these 2 and produce a fertle aamphidloid. It would have the entire somatic complement of each species.
EXAMPLE:
Turnip x Kale = Rutabaga
another result:
A monoploid ( haploid of a diploid )can be created and used to restore fertility and could pass its genetics without altering the genitic make-up as much as a normal diploid to diploid cross.
Basically indiscriminate induction of tretraploid seldom leads to anything of immediate value, manupulations of ploidy for breeding purposes does.
aaron[This message has been edited by aaron (edited December 12, 1999).]
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90268 - 12/11/99 10:40 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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aaron, do you have any references for this process? I was going to provide a bunch of colchicine and polyploidy references but when I did press Submit it wouldn't work and I lost all of them. I'll have to go back and find them all again. Maybe later.-PsiliPharm
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aaron
Pioneering spirit
Registered: 10/17/99
Posts: 100
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90269 - 12/12/99 09:55 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Here is some reference material to get you started.
Genetics and breeding of ebidle mushrooms / edited by Shu-Ting Chang,John A. Buswell,and Philip G. Miles.1993.
National Research council, 1984 Genetic engineering of plants.U.S. Department of Agricilture. 1937. Better Plants and animals II. North, C., 1979 Principles of crop improvement. First and second edition of Frey,F.J.(ed),1981.Plant Breeding & Plant Breeding II. Principles of Plant breeding. by R.W. Allard. You'll need a good book on how to prepare microscope slides, tissue staining and cromozones counts.
good luck, and be careful
[This message has been edited by aaron (edited December 13, 1999).]
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Crobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/03/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90270 - 12/13/99 06:03 AM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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I had a biology of cell class. And we teached
biology of animal and plant cell. And they have many differencess.
Mushrooms are different from those and I think, that all of you have to know much more about mushrooms to do anything, especially that serious
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90271 - 12/15/99 03:18 AM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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aaron, either in simpler terms, or more specifics. I don't see why the mycelium that was incompatible before doubling chromos would somehow become compatable just because you double the chromos. I mean, it certainly makes changes, but it's a pretty drastic statement to say that just because you have two different species with double chromos that they can suddenly mate. Polyploid orange trees don't breed well with polyploid strawberries for instance, and i think that is a good analogy.
More details if I missed something please, but I don't see why that would happen.
And crob, I sure hope your only reffering to the interbreeding of species when you say none of this can be done by any of us. Project Polyploid is underway and apparently showing progress, but the teks are secret pending results and dramatic fame with the inevitable success.------------------
-From a registered Mad Scientist "From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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Crobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/03/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90272 - 12/15/99 04:01 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Mycof, I wish you luck
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aaron
Pioneering spirit
Registered: 10/17/99
Posts: 100
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90273 - 12/18/99 01:21 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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mycofile,
This is a complicated subject but here goes.
Your right an orange tree and a strawberry could never cross. The reason is they are in a separate genis. This will only work for organisims in the same species.
Example:
All oak trees are in the same species.
The reason why this works are not fully understood. It can be caused by just a single gene and when you double the genes to a tetraploid it will produce a homozygous condition, which allows mating to take place.
There is a bunch of reasons why they won't cross.
It's difficult to distinguish between genic and chromosomal sterility. But all you need to know is it should work if the individual that you double and it's cromozone split evenly it should be capable of crossing with another individual of the same species that has been doubled, these 2 species were incompatable before doubling. I wish you luck.
Aaron
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90274 - 12/18/99 04:57 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90275 - 12/19/99 10:42 AM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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All Colchicinoids such as Colchicine and Demecolcine have this effect on cells. Cytochalasin B also has an effect on cells but I'm still unsure as to what exactly that effect is but it's probably the same as colchicine. What other chemicals produces this effect or an effect that may be more or less useful.-PsiliPharm
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90276 - 12/18/99 11:44 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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well guys im making the plunge, i think tomorrow im going to go try and find me some of those bulbs and do some experimenting, im thinking of adding the Cholcine to a couple of jars just too see what they do, im sure there is an annoying dog around here that i could use as a test subject...mwhahaha
but i dont think its as harmful as people think other wise bud growers wouldnt treat their plants with it all the time. Im thinking of trying to get some second generation of the treated mushrooms to use in testing. You just to be on the safe side, since mushrooms have the ability to pick up chemicals in the substrate, and they have a lot smaller yield as compared to someone growing cannibis treated plants
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90277 - 12/19/99 12:10 AM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Pure Colchicine can be obtained from many Chemical Supply companies on the internet just do a search with www.dogpile.com or something. I'll provide a list of companies pretty soon. I lost the list I was going to post, twice.-PsiliPharm
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90278 - 12/21/99 08:01 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90279 - 12/21/99 11:55 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Here is a list of resources that I've found so far. I'm not finished with this list. I know, it's long enough. Here it is:Pharmacology of Colchicine
http://biotech.icmb.utexas.edu/botany/colch.html MedChem Feature Molecule - Colchicine
http://www.phc.vcu.edu/feature/colchicine/colchicine.html Approaches to the Diterpene Colchicine
http://www.chem.ohiou.edu/~mcmills/colchicine.html Scorecard Chemical Profile: Colchicine
http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=64-86-8 PubMed QUERY: Colchicine
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?db= m&form=4&term=Colchicine&dopt=d&relpubdate=1+Year&dispmax=5000 Colchicine
http://www.nursespdr.com/members/database/ndrhtml/colchicine.html Treatment of Severe Colchicine Overdose with Colchicine-Specific Fab Fragments
http://www.nejm.org/content/1995/0332/0010/0642.asp information please: colchicine
http://cbs.infoplease.com/ce5/CE011792.html Colchicine and Orchids.
http://www.oncil.demon.co.uk/CSMColchicine.htm DRUGSTORE.COM - DRUG INTERACTIONS: Colchicine
http://www.drugstore.com/guide/Drug/Colchicine.asp Polyploidy In Plants
http://gnome.agrenv.mcgill.ca/breeding/polypld.htm Cannabis Growing For Medicinal Marijuana
http://www.jaxshirt.com/99grow.htm Marijuana Botany: Chapter 3 - An Advanced Study: The Propagation and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis
http://www.coastnet.com/~bcga/MJBotany/botany3.htm
http://www.mellowgold.com/grow/mjbotany/marijuanabotany3.html
How To Grow Marijuana (Jolly Roger Tek)
http://www.overthrow.com/marijuana.html
http://internettrash.com/users/qaz/mjgrow2.htm
http://www.plokm.com/drugs/mjgrow2.htm
http://www.freespeech.org/bandit710/grow.html
http://www.tamcotec.com/freestyle/growing.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/pe/hemp/
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_cultivation14.shtml
http://members.xoom.com/DominoMF/Dope.html
http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Plants/Cannabis/potgrow-1.html
http://concept420.hypermart.net/general_growing.htm
http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Cannabis/potgrow-1
http://www.angelfire.com/on/Chronic/AnarchistsCookBook.txt
http://www.newpower.org/chn/order/cookbook/072.txt
http://www.marijuana-hemp.com/cin/growing/mjgrow3.shtml
http://www.psa1.net/grow_bud/grow_bud.html
http://www.totse.com/files/FA048/potgrow_.htm
http://www.marijuana.org.il/Mjgrow3.htm
http://hacking.iwarp.com/072.htm Marijuana Cultivation (German)
http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Cannabis/nederwiet Ohio List of Extremely Hazardous Substances
http://www.epa.ohio.gov/derr/cepps/cepd/hazard.html Geriatric Drug Review -- Colchicine
http://www.agenet.com/drugs_general/colchicine.html Colchicine Toxicity Prompts Dosage Change
http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/Safety/colchicinetoxicity.htm Vitamin Buzz - Colchicine
http://www.vitaminbuzz.com/Drug/Colchicine-F.htm COLCHICINE
http://www.theberries.ns.ca/Archives/colchicine.html CASE REPORT: Colchicine Poisoning: Report of a Fatal Case and Presentation of an HPLC Procedure for Body Fluid and Tissue Analyses
http://www.jatox.com/abstracts/1997/jan-feb/kinjabs.htm COLCHICINE, N-BENZOYL-DEACETYL Benzamide, N-(5,6,7,9-tetrahydro-1,2,3, 10-tetramethoxy-9-oxobenzo[a]heptalen-7-yl)-, (S)- (9CI)
http://dtp.nci.nih.gov/docs/static_pages/compounds/33410.html Drug Database Entry: Colchicine
http://www.allhealth.com/meds/kb/0,4383,6743_156660,00.html MSDS for Colchicine
http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/C/colchicine Cutaneous Drug Reaction Database: Colchicine
gopher://gopher.dartmouth.edu/00/Research/BioSci/CDRD/C/COLCHICINE Environmental Science Center: Colchicine
http://esc.syrres.com/~esc/lookup.exe?CAS=64-86-8 NTP Chemical Repository: Colchicine
http://ntp-db.niehs.nih.gov/NTP_Reports/NTP_Chem_H&S/NTP_Chem6/Radian64-86-8.txt COLCHICINE
http://matrix.ucdavis.edu/rxderm-archives/colchicine Picatinny Arsenal
http://www.pica.army.mil/infomenu/p3/ai/right2know_chems.html Wheeless' Textbook of Orthopaedics: Colchicine
http://www.medmedia.com/meda1/147.htm Partial List of Mutagens
http://www.inform.umd.edu/CampusInfo/Departments/EnvirSafety/os/ch/mutagen.html Colchicine Overdose
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/3616/#_Toc395896282 Colchicine used in plant breeding work to induce mutations (polyploidy).
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/2259/colchicine.htm Suicide FAQ Part 2 - Methods: Poisons
http://www.dead.org/suicide/part2.html Colchicine (Oral)
http://home.clara.co.uk/alexknight/behcets-syndrome/medication/colchicine.html RxMed: Colchicine
http://www.rxmed.com/monographs2/colchi.html In Vitro Colchicine Application of Haploid Cucumber Plants
http://ars-genome.cornell.edu/cgc/cgc20/97cuke11.htm Colchicine, an efficient genome-doubling agent for maize (Zea mays L.) microspores cultured in anthero
http://link.springer.de/link/service/journals/00299/bibs/9018010/90180858.htm Colchicine-mediated chromosome doubling during anther culture of maize (Zea mays L.)
http://link.springer.de/link/service/journals/00122/bibs/6092008/60921017.htm Improved production of doubled haploids by colchicine application to wheat (Triticum aestivum L.) anther culture
http://link.springer.de/link/service/journals/00299/bibs/8017012/80170974.htm Somatic chromosome number doubling of selected potato genotypes using callus culture or the colchicine treatment of shoot nodes in vitro
http://www.hri.ac.uk/aab/98-075.htm EXERCISES IN CELL BIOLOGY FOR THE UNDERGRADUATE LABORATORY
http://www.faseb.org/ascb/pubs/exercises.html GAPS IN PENROSE'S TOILINGS
http://www.pitt.edu/~grush/papers/penrose/penrosehtml/penrose-text.html Relationship between frequency of autodiploid corn inbred occurrence and origin of initial stock.
http://www.agron.missouri.edu/mnl/66/105shatskaya.html Chemicals Known to the State (of California) to Cause Cancer
http://www.oehha.ca.gov/prop65/12999ls2.html Chromosome doubling in haploids through colchicine
http://www.agron.missouri.edu/mnl/68/101gayen.html 7 Genetic Research and Chromosome Number
http://www.nal.usda.gov/pgdic/Strawberry/book/bokseve.htm Alkaloids from Phenylalanine and Tyrosine: Colchicine
http://www.life.uiuc.edu/plantbio/363/lecture34.html Emergency First Aid Treatment Guide for Colchicine
http://www.epa.gov/swercepp/ehs/firstaid/64868.txt Chromosome Doubling with Colchicine
http://fastplants.cals.wisc.edu/crgc/ids/t1.html Colchicine
http://www.emedline.com/lexicomp/datasets/anes_f/html/chapter/mono/fc032000.htm Discovery of Novel Anti-Tubulin Agents
http://dtp.nci.nih.gov/docs/compare/novel_compounds/newtub.html Polyploids and Haploids
http://www.css.orst.edu/classes/css530/UNIT13.HTM Nuclear Structure and Function: 2nd Year Physiologists: 'Investigation of the cytoskeleton'
http://atlas.path.ox.ac.uk/~prc/CYTOSK99/cytosk99.html Centre for Molecular Genetics and Toxicology
http://www.swan.ac.uk/cget/ejgt/article3.htm Sustainable Organic Plant Breeding Appendix 4.
http://www.anth.org/ifgene/breedap4.htm INTRODUCTION TO PLANT BREEDING: CHROMOSOME REMODELING
http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/agronomy/815/cremdl.htm Heptalene Chemistry
http://www.unizh.ch/oci/group.pages/hansen/publ/heptalene.html Pharmacology of Vinblastine, Vincristine, Vindesine and Vinorelbine
http://biotech.icmb.utexas.edu/botany/vvv.html Neurotoxicity of CI-980, a Novel Mitotic Inhibitor
http://aacr.edoc.com/ccr/v3n3/df000419.html Blokhin, A.V., Yoo, H.-D., Geralds, R.S., Nagle, D.G., Gerwick, W.H., and Hamel, E. "Characterization of the interaction of the marine cyanobacterial natural product curacin A with the colchicine site of tubulin and initial structure-activity studies with analogs." Molecular Pharmacology 1995, 48, 523-531. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90280 - 12/22/99 12:04 AM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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What would the effects of these other substances be?:Actinomycin D
Benzylbenzodioxole derivatives
Carbamates
CI-980
Colcemid
Combretastatin A-4
Curacin A
Cycloheximide
Cytochalasin D
Dolastatin 10
Dolastatin 15
E7010
Halichondrin B
Homohalichondrin B
Maytansine
Paclitaxel
Podophyllotoxin
Rhizoxin
Tritylcysteine
Vinblastine
Vincristine
Vindesine
Vinorelbine If you actually start looking you'll find many different types of anti-mitotic substances. -PsiliPharm
[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 22, 1999).]
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90281 - 12/22/99 03:57 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Since we are talking about Genetically Mutated or/Altered Mushrooms and in relevence to my first post about the bioluminescent mushroom idea. I thought that these posts are worth looking at:Bioluminescent Pictures? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000534.html Glowing Shrooms-- Tek? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000535.html The second one is the one that I put my two cents worth of information into. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90282 - 12/23/99 05:07 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've created a new thread relating to the use of colchicine on marijuana plants at Cannabis.com:Using Colchicine To Produce Polyploidy Marijauna! -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90283 - 12/26/99 10:02 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Recently, I was told about a substance called ethyl methanesulfonate (EMS) which causes mutations in cells in relation to it's environment. Some other mutagens that are compared to this one:methyl methanesulfonate
N-nitroso-N-ethylurea
N-methyl-N-nitrosourea -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous
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Re: Genetically Mutated Mushrooms [Re: mycofile]
#90284 - 12/28/99 12:48 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Since it was said that colchicine can be used to cross two species that were incompatable before, I started thinking of some interesting Psilocybe species that would be interesting to cross. Here's my list:Equador x Mazatapec
Equador x Cambodia
Mazatapec x Cambodia
Mazatapec x B+
Equador x B+
Cambodia x B+
Cambodia x Treasure Coast
Treasure Coast x B+
Treasure Coast x Equador
Treasure Coast x Mazatapec
Treasure Coast x Phantasia Mystery
Phantasia Mystery x Equador
Phantasia Mystery x Mazatapec
Phantasia Mystery x B+
B+ x A
B+ x B
B+ x Cyanescens
Cyanescens x Phantasia Mystery
Cyanescens x Equador
Cyanescens x Mazatapec
Cyanescens x Cambodia
Cyanescens x Treasure Coast
Cyanescens x Azurescens
Azurescens x B+
Azurescens x Phantasia Mystery
Azurescens x Equador
Azurescens x Mazatapec
Azurescens x Cambodia
Azurescens x Treasure Coast
Azurescens x Australian
Australian x B+
Australian x Equador
Australian x Mazatapec
Australian x Cambodia
Australian x Treasure Coast
Australian x Phantasia Mystery
Australian x Cyanescens
Australian x A
A x Equador
A x Mazatapec
A x Cambodia
A x Treasure Coast
A x Phantasia Mystery
A x Cyanescens
A x Azurescens
A x B
B x Equador
B x Mazatapec
B x Cambodia
B x Treasure Coast
B x Phantasia Mystery
B x Cyanescens
B x Azurescens
B x Australian
B x Gulf Coast
Gulf Coast x Azurescens
Gulf Coast x Cyanescens
Gulf Coast x Phantasia Mystery
Gulf Coast x Treasure Coast
Gulf Coast x Cambodia
Gulf Coast x Mazatapec
Gulf Coast x Equador
Gulf Coast x Australian
Gulf Coast x B+
Gulf Coast x A
Gulf Coast x Mexican
Mexican x A
Mexican x B
Mexican x B+
Mexican x Equador
Mexican x Mazatapec
Mexican x Cambodia
Mexican x Australian
Mexican x Treasure Coast
Mexican x Phantasia Mystery
Mexican x Cyanescens
Mexican x Azurescens
Mexican x Hispanica
Hispanica x Azurescens
Hispanica x Cyanescens
Hispanica x Phantasia Mystery
Hispanica x Treasure Coast
Hispanica x Gulf Coast
Hispanica x Australian
Hispanica x Equador
Hispanica x Cambodia
Hispanica x Mazatapec
Hispanica x A
Hispanica x B
Hispanica x B+
Panaeolus Tropicalis x Panaeolus Cyanescens Also, what if Panaeolus became compatable with Psylocybe through this method? Another thought is that any one of the cross breeds may be breed again with another strain or another cross breed. All of the above strains were obtained from The Hawk's Eye. There are many other strains that could be breed to create a new strain.
In fact, I'm going to create a new thread on this very subject. Here: Creating New Strains of Psychedelic Mushrooms -PsiliPharm
[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 28, 1999).]
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